Aspirin Just As Good As Commercial Clot-busting Drugs (Xarelto)

haidut

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A few months ago there were discussions on the forum about safe blood thinning drugs. I posted a quote from a great Slate article detailing the massive fraud behind the clinical trials that led to the approval of the blood thinner Xarelto. The FDA not only went on to approve that drug but refuses to publicly answer questions about its merits or risks.
Flagship Blood Thinner Worse Than Aspirin For Preventing Strokes, Trial Halted

Well, maybe that won't matter now that this new study found aspirin to be just as good as those commercial blood thinner, and likely safer. Ironically, this is a fact that every doctor over 65 likely knows all too well, but is afraid to tell their patient out of fear of losing their license. Hopefully, as more studies like this come out the public will realize what massive scam the blood thinner industry is and will use safer alternatives like aspirin, vitamin E, progesterone, anti-serotonin chemicals, etc.
As good as the study's message is, I can't help but notice that even this study was set up to weaken aspirin's benefits. All patients were given Xarelto on day 1 after the surgery and only after 5 days some of them were switched over to aspirin. So, technically speaking, the study cannot be used to claim complete equivalence between aspirin and Xarelto. In order to do that, the study should have started with two group from the beginning - one group on aspirin and one on Xarelto. Given that both aspirin and Xarelto are approved as anticoagulant therapy the claims of ethics do not apply here. So, there is no good reason to design a trial like that unless it is to (partially) protect the status of Xarelto as the standard-of-care for blood clots, and disparage aspirin a bit.

http://www.nejm.org/doi/full/10.1056/NEJMoa1712746?af=R&rss=currentIssue&

Aspirin just as good as Xarelto for preventing clots after hip, knee surgery
"...The expensive anti-clotting drug Xarelto is no better than common aspirin when it comes to preventing painful and potentially-deadly clots in people who have just had total hip or total knee replacement surgery, according to a new Canadian study. Such clots, known as venous thromboemboli (VTE), occurred in less than 1 percent of all patients: 11 of the 1,707 patients who received a baby aspirin daily beginning five days after their surgery versus 12 of 1,717 given Xarelto, known generically as rivaroxaban. Xarelto, made by Bayer Pharma, costs at least $425 a month compared with less than a dollar for aspirin therapy."

"...Both groups of patients received Xarelto for the first five days after surgery, the authors note in The New England Journal of Medicine. Then, some were randomly assigned to switch to a daily 81-milligram dose of aspirin. "The major message here is aspirin is an effective and safe alternative to rivaroxaban (Xarelto)" beginning five days after surgery, lead author Dr. David Anderson, told Reuters Health in a telephone interview. "And it offers a choice and potential benefits of savings to patients and the healthcare system." The study, known as EPCAT II, was the first to compare the two drugs for replacement surgery, said Anderson, who is dean of medicine at Dalhousie University in Halifax, Nova Scotia."

https://health.usnews.com/health-ca...uster-as-pricey-drugs-after-joint-replacement
"...The caveat, Anderson said, was that all study patients received rivaroxaban for the first five days after surgery. After that, they either continued on the drug or switched to aspirin for another nine to 30 days. "From this study, we have no evidence to support starting aspirin on day one," Anderson said. But after day five, he added, "it's very reasonable to consider switching to aspirin."

"...Over the past decade, surgeons have already been turning away from powerful anticoagulants toward aspirin and non-drug options for thwarting clots, said Dr. Alejandro Gonzalez Della Valle."

"...He agreed that most surgeons have been turning to aspirin in the past 10 years because recovery times are shorter and people leave the hospital much sooner. Most people can have just aspirin, but some at high risk of blood clots -- those with a history of clots, people who are very obese -- might need an anticoagulant, Bozic added. "The strategy for preventing clots should include medication and early mobilization," he stressed."
 

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Fred

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... this new study found aspirin to be just as good as those commercial blood thinner, and likely safer. Ironically, this is a fact that every doctor over 65 likely knows all too well, but is afraid to tell their patient out of fear of losing their license.

Why would a doctor lose his license?
 

Hugh Johnson

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Why would a doctor lose his license?
For harming profits. It's against the hypocrite oath.

Technical reason: Because the drug companies have paid the researchers and FDA to make aspirin seem dangerous and unhelpful. So to prescribe it for most things, except maybe pain, could be considered malpractice especially if someone dies while taking it.
 
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haidut

haidut

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Why would a doctor lose his license?

Because doctors are discouraged by the local state board from prescribing aspirin as the primary drug for preventing clots, let alone treating them. If you go against the state board recommendations you risk losing your license through action by the board after somebody sues you for not following "standard of care" when their loved one dies or gets some severe damage from ischemic stroke or pulmonary embolism.
For that reason and what @Hugh Johnson mentioned (and probably many other legal/financial ones) many doctors now only dare prescribe aspirin as an add-on therapy on top of something like Xarelto. Many do not even mention it to their patients and just stick with the pharma drugs. More money for the doctor and less legal risk. The patient be damned, they say...
 

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What about other anti-clotting drugs that are used in place of Warfarin? Similar problems and issues?

I'm thinking specifically of apixaban (Eliquis)

Also how would one go about coming off of these drugs? The medical industry says it is very dangerous to go off of them cold turkey because it greatly increases the risk of clotting. Is this true? Seems quite convenient for the medical industry that once you start taking it you can never stop.

Would tapering down then replacing with aspirin be a viable option?
 
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haidut

haidut

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What about other anti-clotting drugs that are used in place of Warfarin? Similar problems and issues?

I'm thinking specifically of apixaban (Eliquis)

Also how would one go about coming off of these drugs? The medical industry says it is very dangerous to go off of them cold turkey because it greatly increases the risk of clotting. Is this true? Seems quite convenient for the medical industry that once you start taking it you can never stop.

Would tapering down then replacing with aspirin be a viable option?

I think they all have the same blackbox warnings and likely the same side effects. Peat was asked a similar question about alternatives and he said he does not know of even a single case where blood clotting issues could not be properly controlled by higher dose vitamin E, alone or in combination with aspirin. Since aspirin is also approved as primary clotting prevention, in theory all it would take is a few fights with the doctor asking to be put on aspirin. The doctor may complain and intimidate but at the end of the day they should not be able to deny a patient a therapy approved as equivalently effective to one of these poisons. Vitamin E is not approved for clotting AFAIK, so it would be a much harder sell but if the doctor is not against it then it can probably be added as well (if even needed).
 
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Soren

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I think they all have the same blackbox warnings and likely the same effects. Peat was asked a similar question about alternatives and he said he does not know of even a single case where blood clotting issues could not be properly controlled by higher dose vitamin E, alone or in combination with aspirin. Since aspirin is also approved as primary clotting prevention, in theory all it would take is a few fights with the doctor asking to be put on aspirin. The doctor may complain and intimidate but at the end of the day they should not be able to deny a patient a therapy approved as equivalently effective to one of these poisons. Vitamin E is not approved for clotting AFAIK, so it would be a much harder sell but if the doctor is not against it then it can probably be added as well (if even needed).

Thanks Haidut. I completely forgot about Vitamin E and its anti-coagulant effects.
 

Nemo

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What about other anti-clotting drugs that are used in place of Warfarin? Similar problems and issues?

I'm thinking specifically of apixaban (Eliquis)

Also how would one go about coming off of these drugs? The medical industry says it is very dangerous to go off of them cold turkey because it greatly increases the risk of clotting. Is this true? Seems quite convenient for the medical industry that once you start taking it you can never stop.

Would tapering down then replacing with aspirin be a viable option?

My father at age 88 was prescribed Warfarin by his VA doctor. He took it for a couple of months but couldn't continue because of the constant bloodwork required and restrictions on his driving.

The doctor said he could take Eliquis but the VA wouldn't pay for it. At the time Eliquis cost $600 a month and my father told the doctor he couldn't afford it.

So the doctor told him to take a baby aspirin a day, but that he hadn't officially said that. No transition between the Warfarin and baby aspirin. Just stop the Warfarin, start the aspirin. My father never had a problem with clotting on the aspirin.
 
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Great thread.

@haidut wrote that "Peat was asked a similar question about alternatives and he said he does not know of even a single case where blood clotting issues could not be properly controlled by higher dose vitamin E, alone or in combination with aspirin."

Does anyone know the source for these remarks by RP? Would be great to get more specifics on how to substitute vitamin E for conventional anticoagulant drugs.
 

Blue Water

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I am currently taking Eliquis for a DVT that I got due to blunt force trauma to my calf.

It seems safer than wafarin given it doesn't induce Vitamin K deficiency, it inhibits the product of Vitamin K2 synthesis in the clotting cascade, which is factor Xa.
 
EMF Mitigation - Flush Niacin - Big 5 Minerals

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