100mg Niacinamide Increase Plasma Serotonin And Histamine

[Such_Saturation]

Excess nicotinamide increases plasma serotonin and histamine levels.

 

[johnwester130]

so I should stop taking it ?

 

[Kasper]

Strangely, that so many people feel good with it then..

 

[Tarmander]

First off, n=9 is not super significant, but lets forget that at the moment. I read this abstract and if I understand what they are saying, it is basically that if you lower methyl donors, you lower the breakdown of serotonin and histamine. This kind of jives differently with what Ray recently talked about in a radio interview.

He talked about how people were increasing methylation to their detriment, thinking they needed lots of methyl donors when in fact high methyl donors are found in hibernating bears. Or something like that. I don't know, this is one of those cases where what they are saying does not seem to jive well with past experience. I mean high levels of Niacinamide have been successfully used with schizophrenics, addicts, and lots of other mental/emotional problems. So this is saying that those cases were helped because their histamine and serotonin were increased? Doesn't seem to make sense...

 

[Such_Saturation]

You shouldn't stop taking it, you should take this as what it is, just a study in the Alternative Scientific Studies section.

 

[XPlus]

This leads me to something I've trying to figure out for a while.
As niacinamide shuts down the release of fatty acids, the body is pushed more towards sugar oxidization.
When the blood sugar goes low and the liver runs out of glycogen, the limited release of fatty acids will mostly leave protein catabolism through cortisol as a the main energy pathway. The cortisol pushes the system towards a viscous stress cycle, increasing serotonin and histamine.

I'm speculating that niacinamide has the potential for stress on the short term but as it improves the liver's glycogen storage long-term, it becomes potentially less likely to cause stress reaction.
So it is probably a good idea to ensure adequate and continuous supply of sugar to the system when taking niacinamide.

While stress typically causes the adrenal glands to produce cortisol, extreme stress, as described by Hans Selye, damages the adrenal cortex, and can cause the cells to die, leading to the death of the animal

http://raypeat.com/articles/aging/trypt ... ging.shtml

Hypothyroidism increases the formation of serotonin, as does cortisol (Henley, et al., 1997, 1998; Neckers and Sze, 1976).

Serotonin's contribution to high blood pressure is well established. It activates the adrenal cortex both directly and through activation of the pituitary. It stimulates the production of both cortisol and aldosterone. It can also promote estrogen production.

“The first reaction to a decrease of blood glucose, at least in healthy individuals, is to increase the activity of the sympathetic nervous system, with an increase in adrenaline, which causes the liver to release glucose from the glycogen stores. The effect of adrenaline on the liver is very quick, but adrenaline also acts on the brain, stimulating CRH, which causes the pituitary to secrete ACTH, which stimulates the the adrenal cortex to release cortisol, which by various means causes blood sugar to increase, consequently causing the sympathetic nervous system activity to decrease. Even when the liver’s glycogen stores are adequate, the system cycles rhythmically, usually repeating about every 90 minutes throughout the day…With advancing age, most tissues become less sensitive to adrenaline and the sympathetic nervous stimulation, and the body relies increasingly on the production of cortisol to maintain blood glucose.”

“The stress response is self-sustaining on several levels. For example, stress increases the absorption of bacterial endotoxin from the intestine, which increases the estrogen level and synergizes with biliverdin and cortisol.”

The inflammation-producing effects of lactate, serotonin, and endotoxin are overlapping, additive, and sometimes synergistic, along with histamine, nitric oxide, bradykinin, and the cytokines.

Thanks for sharing, Such. This sort of gives me better clues for answering my question.

 

[Such_Saturation]

Nice!

 

[jyb]

https://raypeatforum.com/forums/posts/96875/ This leads me to something I've trying to figure out for a while.
As niacinamide shuts down the release of fatty acids, the body is pushed more towards sugar oxidization.
When the blood sugar goes low and the liver runs out of glycogen, the limited release of fatty acids will mostly leave protein catabolism through cortisol as a the main energy pathway. The cortisol pushes the system towards a viscous stress cycle, increasing serotonin and histamine.

I'm speculating that niacinamide has the potential for stress on the short term but as it improves the liver's glycogen storage long-term, it becomes potentially less likely to cause stress reaction.
So it is probably a good idea to ensure adequate and continuous supply of sugar to the system when taking niacinamide.

Yes, Peter writes something along these lines: http://high-fat-nutrition.blogspot.co.uk/search/label/Protons (13): Zero fat

 

[XPlus]

Interesting.
This guy is more difficult to understand than Peat. I should probably try my PGP decryption software to read his article.

 

[Such_Saturation]

Who better than a veterinarian for rat studies

 

[acrylic]

I emailed Peat this study and he promptly dismissed it.

-J

 

[Such_Saturation]

As in he did not answer you?

 

[jyb]

https://raypeatforum.com/forums/posts/96982/ Interesting.
This guy is more difficult to understand than Peat. I should probably try my PGP decryption software to read his article.

You'd need to read a dozen articles first to get where he's coming from, but on a first read skip his articles on Gilbert Ling like cell theory and have a look in the comments sections for clarification. 100% worth it because he debunks several concepts and studies that are taken for granted on this forum. It's just like when jumping into Peat for the first time.

 

[Such_Saturation]

his articles on Gilbert Ling

 

[acrylic]

https://raypeatforum.com/forums/posts/96985/ As in he did not answer you?

As in he implied that the study was BS/quackish.

 

[Milky]

I've noticed weird stuff with too much niacinamide. I definitely cannot take a whole 500mg tab at one time or it gives me a headache and makes me feel lethargic. I notice similar symptoms when I take 100mg or more, just to a lesser degree. Could be the caps I have though. When I take Energin I only take 10-15 drops at a time so that's only about 30-50mg. I'll try adding an extra shot of sugar and see what that does. Never hurts to add more sugar I suppose.

 

[Such_Saturation]

https://raypeatforum.com/forums/posts/97015/

https://raypeatforum.com/forums/posts/96985/ As in he did not answer you?

As in he implied that the study was BS/quackish.

I'm interested in the full quote if you can

 

[tara]

https://raypeatforum.com/forums/posts/97017/ I've noticed weird stuff with too much niacinamide. I definitely cannot take a whole 500mg tab at one time or it gives me a headache and makes me feel lethargic. I notice similar symptoms when I take 100mg or more, just to a lesser degree. Could be the caps I have though. When I take Energin I only take 10-15 drops at a time so that's only about 30-50mg. I'll try adding an extra shot of sugar and see what that does. Never hurts to add more sugar I suppose.

Peat usually recommends 50-100 mg doses (up to several times a day). Unwanted effects from 500+mg are not uncommon (though some people are fine with/benefit from more).

 

[natedawggh]

https://raypeatforum.com/forums/posts/96875/ This leads me to something I've trying to figure out for a while.
As niacinamide shuts down the release of fatty acids, the body is pushed more towards sugar oxidization.
When the blood sugar goes low and the liver runs out of glycogen, the limited release of fatty acids will mostly leave protein catabolism through cortisol as a the main energy pathway. The cortisol pushes the system towards a viscous stress cycle, increasing serotonin and histamine.

I'm speculating that niacinamide has the potential for stress on the short term but as it improves the liver's glycogen storage long-term, it becomes potentially less likely to cause stress reaction.
So it is probably a good idea to ensure adequate and continuous supply of sugar to the system when taking niacinamide.

You are totally right, in my experience. I have found that if I take Niacinamide my pulse and temp rises almost immediately, and if I haven't eaten I very quickly get that grating, gnawing stress reaction that compels me to get munching on something. I now always make sure I eat good sugar and protein with or before taking niacinamide, but as I've now been doing it for about six months I notice the sugar and protein last for much longer in my body and I don't have to eat as often as I did in the beginning (at the beginning was nearly every hour and now I eat every 3 or 4)

I take 1500 mg in the am and 1500 at night, but then again I'm a big guy so I can probably get away with a higher dose than others. I got headaches at first with 500 mg but as I increased my dosage over time I don't have side effects from 1500mg.

 

[goodandevil]

post 96984 I emailed Peat this study and he promptly dismissed it.

-J

How do you email him? I would like to order his books if nothing else.