Plasma Prolactin Concentration Increases After Hypercapnia Acidosis

[paymanz]

its very confusing and almost disappointing ,after i read this article of danny roddy

http://www.abioenergeticview.com/3-2/

in which he claims "carbon dioxide suppresses both serotonin and parathyroid hormone, which can increase levels of prolactin" i looked at the reference but there was no info in regard of relation of co2 and serotonnin and prolactin.!!!
so i decided to search for it and i found this

http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/14605994


Responses of plasma prolactin (PRL) concentration to alterations in carbon dioxide pressure ( pCO(2)) induced by 4 min of rebreathing out of a bag with 6 l gas initially containing a concentration of 93% O(2) and 7% CO(2) (hypercapnia hyperoxia; HH) and 4 min of voluntary hyperventilation (VH) at a respiratory rate of 28 - 32 per minute were investigated in ten males. During rebreathing in HH, an augmentation of pCO(2) from 40.2 +/- 2.1 to 63.7 +/- 5.4 mmHg and a decrease of pH from 7.4 +/- 0.02 to 7.32 +/- 0.04 were found in capillary blood (p < 0.01). Neither breathing frequency (BF) nor plasma PRL changed during this period. After two minutes of post-rebreathing, pCO(2) and pH returned to basal values. BF increased from 2 min of rebreathing (12.4 +/- 1.9 breath/min) until 11 min of recovery period (18.1 +/- 4.9 breath/min) (p < 0.01), while plasma PRL increased from end of rebreathing (11.59 +/- 1.49 ng/dl) to 11 min of recovery period (13.63 +/- 1.97 ng/dl) (p < 0.01). In VH, hyperventilation decreased pCO (2) from 39.91 +/- 2.62 to 21.73 +/- 2.59 mmHg (p < 0.01) and increased pH from 7.39 +/- 0.04 to 7.58 +/- 0.04 (p < 0.01) in capillary blood. After four minutes of recovery from hyperventilation, pH and pCO(2) were back to their basal values. No changes in plasma PRL were found throughout VH. This present pilot study's new finding is that plasma PRL increases after hypercapnia acidosis. This indicates that acidosis-induced central chemoreflex function increases phrenic nerve activity based on serotonergic modulation, leading to an augmentation of BF. As serotonin is also the main PRL-releasing factor, this might have had the collateral effect of causing PRL release and delayed appearance in the peripheral circulation.

 

[paymanz]

and here for serotonin "Recently, we have shown that neurons in the medulla that produce serotonin (serotonergic neurons) have properties expected of central respiratory chemoreceptors. For example, they are strongly stimulated by an increase in CO2 via the resulting decrease in pH"
https://www.medicine.uiowa.edu/neurolog ... Serotonin/

 

[tara]

I have not read the studies you link. I have couple of thoughts anyway.
Firstly, I wonder what the status of the subjects was wrt alkaline mineral reserves. My guess is that if alkaline mineral reserves are lowish, the risks of hypercapnia and resulting acidosis would be higher. Peat tend to recommend diets higher in all the alkaline minerals that the SAD. Adequate calcium is important for controling prolactin levels, right?
Secondly, I don't see Peat recommending hypercapnea. I see him recommending avoiding hypocapnia.

 

[haidut]

its very confusing and almost disappointing ,after i read this article of danny roddy

http://www.abioenergeticview.com/3-2/

in which he claims "carbon dioxide suppresses both serotonin and parathyroid hormone, which can increase levels of prolactin" i looked at the reference but there was no info in regard of relation of co2 and serotonnin and prolactin.!!!
so i decided to search for it and i found this

http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/14605994


Responses of plasma prolactin (PRL) concentration to alterations in carbon dioxide pressure ( pCO(2)) induced by 4 min of rebreathing out of a bag with 6 l gas initially containing a concentration of 93% O(2) and 7% CO(2) (hypercapnia hyperoxia; HH) and 4 min of voluntary hyperventilation (VH) at a respiratory rate of 28 - 32 per minute were investigated in ten males. During rebreathing in HH, an augmentation of pCO(2) from 40.2 +/- 2.1 to 63.7 +/- 5.4 mmHg and a decrease of pH from 7.4 +/- 0.02 to 7.32 +/- 0.04 were found in capillary blood (p < 0.01). Neither breathing frequency (BF) nor plasma PRL changed during this period. After two minutes of post-rebreathing, pCO(2) and pH returned to basal values. BF increased from 2 min of rebreathing (12.4 +/- 1.9 breath/min) until 11 min of recovery period (18.1 +/- 4.9 breath/min) (p < 0.01), while plasma PRL increased from end of rebreathing (11.59 +/- 1.49 ng/dl) to 11 min of recovery period (13.63 +/- 1.97 ng/dl) (p < 0.01). In VH, hyperventilation decreased pCO (2) from 39.91 +/- 2.62 to 21.73 +/- 2.59 mmHg (p < 0.01) and increased pH from 7.39 +/- 0.04 to 7.58 +/- 0.04 (p < 0.01) in capillary blood. After four minutes of recovery from hyperventilation, pH and pCO(2) were back to their basal values. No changes in plasma PRL were found throughout VH. This present pilot study's new finding is that plasma PRL increases after hypercapnia acidosis. This indicates that acidosis-induced central chemoreflex function increases phrenic nerve activity based on serotonergic modulation, leading to an augmentation of BF. As serotonin is also the main PRL-releasing factor, this might have had the collateral effect of causing PRL release and delayed appearance in the peripheral circulation.

I posted an in vivo study with humans some time ago showing supplemental oxygen (from breathing mask) acutely raised prolactin.

viewtopic.php?f=75&t=5215&p=61351

So, at least we also have one study confirming Peat's views. I will try to find that study and read it to see what its explanation is.

 

[Such_Saturation]

I think raising it too quickly would represent a stressor, like going up a mountain too fast.

 

[teenpeater]

Doesn't it say 93% oxygen? What does that mean? It seems insane to me. Why wouldn't any bad effects come from so much oxygen? I guess I don't follow what you're trying to say, or I'm stupid. Why do you breathe in a bag, to get really high oxygen? I thought the point was to get less oxygen, no? What the heck! I'm lost.

 

[tara]

I think raising it too quickly would represent a stressor, like going up a mountain too fast.

too. And possibly also inhaling too much oxygen.

 

[paymanz]

I posted an in vivo study with humans some time ago showing supplemental oxygen (from breathing mask) acutely raised prolactin.

viewtopic.php?f=75&t=5215&p=61351

So, at least we also have one study confirming Peat's views. I will try to find that study and read it to see what its explanation is.

thats cool haidut, thanks
so it shows maybe the balance is important or something like that.
do you remember any study regarding co2 and serotonin relation?
did you see my second post in topic?

 

[paymanz]

I think raising it too quickly would represent a stressor, like going up a mountain too fast.

yeah but in that circumstance peat says breathing in bag can help.that means more co2.so probably going up a mountain too fast doesnt increase co2 ,right?if not why bag breathing can help?
maybe climbing decreases co2 due to hyperventilation?!

 

[paymanz]

I have not read the studies you link. I have couple of thoughts anyway.
Firstly, I wonder what the status of the subjects was wrt alkaline mineral reserves. My guess is that if alkaline mineral reserves are lowish, the risks of hypercapnia and resulting acidosis would be higher. Peat tend to recommend diets higher in all the alkaline minerals that the SAD. Adequate calcium is important for controling prolactin levels, right?
Secondly, I don't see Peat recommending hypercapnea. I see him recommending avoiding hypocapnia.

agree.we dont know their alkaline mineral status.good point.
maybe fast raising co2 in unadapted system,forced PTH to bring calcium out of bones,and PTH has a relation to prolactin and serotonin...

 

[Such_Saturation]

You can search for Ray Peat's explanation regarding mountain sickness. Ray Peat has also said that bag breathing is not comparable to high altitude nor is a permanent solution. In the case of this topic I think the chemoreflex setpoint can be shifted both ways like in Buteyko, serotonin is simply the way the setpoint is maintained.

 

[Such_Saturation]

I noticed in the bag was 93% oxygen... Also, prolactin only increased after the bag-breathing.

 

[paymanz]

I noticed in the bag was 93% oxygen... Also, prolactin only increased after the bag-breathing.

increased prolactin? have blood tested?
how much did you bag breathed?

 

[Such_Saturation]

I mean your study!

 

[Sol Invictus]

I think having very high blood CO2 can cause a stress in the body even if the level of oxygen and red blood cells are normal. When I was experimenting with progesterone/T3 for hair loss I had brought my blood CO2 level above normal labs values. My red blood cell value was normal, but my ferritin was low. I experienced a host of symptoms like disturbed sleep, dehydration, easily fatigued, shortness of breath when bringing in groceries, hot and sweaty with clammy skin, and developing vertical nail ridges. What got me out of this was to halt the progesterone/T3 and increase the consumption of iron rich foods daily (meat liver and oysters). It was amazing to see how fast my symptoms improved, especially the nail ridges. Its all about achieving the perfect balance. Too much CO2 can be counterproductive. I did notice that the Progesterone/ T3 improved my teeth as I was consuming 2000 to 3000 grams/daily of calcium. My hair loss also stopped even with all the new symptoms I was creating.

 

[sladerunner69]

I think having very high blood CO2 can cause a stress in the body even if the level of oxygen and red blood cells are normal. When I was experimenting with progesterone/T3 for hair loss I had brought my blood CO2 level above normal labs values. My red blood cell value was normal, but my ferritin was low. I experienced a host of symptoms like disturbed sleep, dehydration, easily fatigued, shortness of breath when bringing in groceries, hot and sweaty with clammy skin, and developing vertical nail ridges. What got me out of this was to halt the progesterone/T3 and increase the consumption of iron rich foods daily (meat liver and oysters). It was amazing to see how fast my symptoms improved, especially the nail ridges. Its all about achieving the perfect balance. Too much CO2 can be counterproductive. I did notice that the Progesterone/ T3 improved my teeth as I was consuming 2000 to 3000 grams/daily of calcium. My hair loss also stopped even with all the new symptoms I was creating.

How has your hairloss been since stopping this protocol?

 

[Motorneuron]

@ecstatichamster