Trying To Figure Out If Im Hyper Or Hypo Cortisol

[fendertele]

Surprised nobody has yet mentioned this. Curcumin, fish oil, grape seed extract, are all estrogenic. Fish oil just downright toxic and inflammatory too.

DIM can cause a rebound (of estrogen).

Probiotics are either pointless, or, possibly, harmful (increase endotoxin).

I think if you cut these things out, and added a high quality Vitamin D3 you'd feel better in a few weeks and the puffy nipple would go away.

Really as i had read curcumin was great for dealing with insulin spikes which is a cause of estrogen rising and also a mild anti estrogen, the fish oil i take because i was told it's good fat ( omega 3 i think ) on bb sites, and the grape seed extract because i noticed when i ate grapes in large quantities my puffy nipple and bloating decreased and read the main part of the grape could be found in grape seed extract with it's aromatose inhibiting properties... and theres loads of articles backing this.. i haven't seen any to say that it can have a negative effect however i hadn't been looking for it so i have no doubt there is can you explain a little more for me to combat the articles i've read ?

The dim i planned on taking 3 months on one off... and continuing the other stuff to prevent the rebound happening.... but now you've mentioned they are estrogenic they would most likely cause an even bigger rebound once im off them.

thanks

 

[Blossom]

@fendertele, I just remembered that you are not in the U.S. I think you are in the UK and if so @RedLightMan may be a better option for red lights if you were considering looking into it.

 

[managing]

Really as i had read curcumin was great for dealing with insulin spikes which is a cause of estrogen rising and also a mild anti estrogen, the fish oil i take because i was told it's good fat ( omega 3 i think ) on bb sites, and the grape seed extract because i noticed when i ate grapes in large quantities my puffy nipple and bloating decreased and read the main part of the grape could be found in grape seed extract with it's aromatose inhibiting properties... and theres loads of articles backing this.. i haven't seen any to say that it can have a negative effect however i hadn't been looking for it so i have no doubt there is can you explain a little more for me to combat the articles i've read ?

The dim i planned on taking 3 months on one off... and continuing the other stuff to prevent the rebound happening.... but now you've mentioned they are estrogenic they would most likely cause an even bigger rebound once im off them.

thanks

Fish Oil: The central tenant of Ray Peat and this site is taht PUFA is bad. Very, very bad:
Unsaturated Vegetable Oils: Toxic

Curcumin: short term it is anti-inflammatory, but long term estrogenic.

Grape Seed: Grapes, ripe grapes, are great. But you don't eat the seed. They are either seedless, or you spit the seeds out.
resveratrol | Ray Peat Forum
Supplement Guide

 

[fendertele]

Fish Oil: The central tenant of Ray Peat and this site is taht PUFA is bad. Very, very bad:
Unsaturated Vegetable Oils: Toxic

Curcumin: short term it is anti-inflammatory, but long term estrogenic.

Grape Seed: Grapes, ripe grapes, are great. But you don't eat the seed. They are either seedless, or you spit the seeds out.
resveratrol | Ray Peat Forum
Supplement Guide

Okay so if i was to kick all my supps, what would i focus on doing to prevent these insuline issues and prevent estrogen rising ? i'm looking for a good solid plan to get over whatever it is that happens to my body when it's stressed be it physically or mentally... the bloating and water retention needs to go aswell as the puffy nipple issue

I'd imagine it's one or all of cortisol/estrogen/insulin that's the culprit, maybe my prolacin spikes... but i try to take my cabergoline right after working out to prevent prolactin rising too much...

So any advice would be great willing to try anything.

 

[TheBeard]

Hey everyone, Found this site while searching for cortisol issues hope some of my symptoms make some sense and maybe point me in the direction i need to go.

10 years ago was diagnosed with a prolactinoma.... was adrenal insufficient, hypogonadism and some other big words i didn't understand at the time and never looked into...

was put on cabergoline for the tumor and hydrocortisone for the adrenals.... i'm still currently taking the caber as my tumor will keep growing back if i stop, however was taken off the hydrocortisone as my adrenals started working on their own.

My issue is whenever i workout and i do workout out hard at the gym, the accumulation of sessions seems to take it's toll on me.... and i begin to show these symptoms.

i appear to gain weight ( but it is bloating and or water weight) i know this as it can dissappear within a few days of taking time off and/or eating like a pig.

my eyes look tired instead of bright/wide

face puffs up/ abdomen.... sparing legs and arms.

allergies increase/asthma etc..

and the big one for me..... my nipples esp the left puffs out like a cone shape/teen girl going through puberty and there is some tingling associated with it.


and soon enough i feel like a crash usually with some sort of flu..... at which point i will take a few days off and stay in bed... and eat such large amounts of food that it would sicken anyone if they seen it... and not all of it healthy choices.... esp chocolate... i eat more in one day than most in a week.

after those few days off, i will have leaned out... and look back to my usual self.

But i'm trying to figure out if the above are symptoms of someone with too little cortisol to deal with the workload or someone with high cortisol due to the workload ?

if it helps i dont have any issue gaining muscle... infact the opposite i make enhancing drug like gains... don't know if that contradicts either high or low cortisol but thought i'd mention it.

Wanna figure it out? Go get a fasting morning blood test.

 

[fendertele]

Wanna figure it out? Go get a fasting morning blood test.

had those..... all i imagine was good as my endo didn't mention anything to me... i'm thinking it's something spiking my hormones are usually decent after i sleep things settle.

 

[TheBeard]

had those..... all i imagine was good as my endo didn't mention anything to me... i'm thinking it's something spiking my hormones are usually decent after i sleep things settle.

Have you tried going Paleo or GAPS?

Everyone needs to figure the diet that fits them

 

[Blossom]

Have you tried going Paleo or GAPS?

Everyone needs to figure the diet that fits them

I don't think Ray Peat would recommend Paleo or Gaps though.

 

[fendertele]

Have you tried going Paleo or GAPS?

Everyone needs to figure the diet that fits them

I haven't considered one diet or another mate, just been flirting with different things to see what helps... and so far the eat sickening amounts of processed fast food diet is the only thing that settles things.... and it isn't something i want to be on for the rest of my life... so was just tyring to figure out the mechanics of how it's working and possibly find a healthier alternative.... if you saw the change of my appearance from

day 1 - Look lean and ripped before gym, gradually puffing up and bloated during workout.. leave gym looking jacked but with bloated face and belly.

day 2 - look fat and flabby along with bloated face and belly and the horrible puffy nipple and get flu like symptoms when really bad... so start to eat massive amounts of crap as it's tried and tested to counter this/ sometimes staying in bed is required when it's at it's worst.....

day 3 - wake up lnext day looking lean and ripped despite having ate 6-8k of pizza/chocolate and the likes... then head to gym.... day 1 to 3 is on repeat.

So trying to prevent day 2 from happening by giving my body what it needs during the workout and after.

 

[managing]

Okay so if i was to kick all my supps, what would i focus on doing to prevent these insuline issues and prevent estrogen rising ? i'm looking for a good solid plan to get over whatever it is that happens to my body when it's stressed be it physically or mentally... the bloating and water retention needs to go aswell as the puffy nipple issue

I'd imagine it's one or all of cortisol/estrogen/insulin that's the culprit, maybe my prolacin spikes... but i try to take my cabergoline right after working out to prevent prolactin rising too much...

So any advice would be great willing to try anything.

I am really only questioning fish oil, grape seed, curcumin, and probiotics. I see those as doing more harm than good.

As for DIM, I am concerned about rebound. TOO LOW estrogen is also a risk, but you don't seem close to that right now. So I would just suggest BOLO for painful knees (a sure sign of low estrogen) or tapering. Or just give it some time after cutting the above.

Also recommending a good quality D3 (@haidut calcirol would be a great candidate). Others may chime in about Vitamin K and/or A going along with it, but I am a little unclear on their interrelationships myself.

 

[fendertele]

I am really only questioning fish oil, grape seed, curcumin, and probiotics. I see those as doing more harm than good.

As for DIM, I am concerned about rebound. TOO LOW estrogen is also a risk, but you don't seem close to that right now. So I would just suggest BOLO for painful knees (a sure sign of low estrogen) or tapering. Or just give it some time after cutting the above.

Also recommending a good quality D3 (@haidut calcirol would be a great candidate). Others may chime in about Vitamin K and/or A going along with it, but I am a little unclear on their interrelationships myself.

I get no sore joints at all and have been taking I3c for a week now along with all the other stuff for over a month, i might need to give the full list of things i take incase i'm causing more harm than good.

I take I3c (DIM), Curcumin ( 1/4 tbsp ) Ashwhghanda ( 1/4 tbsp) Grape Seed extract ( 1/4tbsp) biotin, iron, zinc, glucosamine sulphate, vitamin c 2000mg, multi vit, omega 3 fish oil, probiotic.

I have the appearace of someone with cushings 4/5 days of the week with 2 days of looking normal when my hormones level out for whatever reason... i do lift weights.. very heavy.. i seem to have an abundance of energy once i get going in the gym like i tap into something... i can continue to lift heavy for well over an hour if i wanted too... doing twice as many sets and reps than the average person... while doing so i begin to puff up/bloat and leave the gym twice the size i entering... not literally but i come in looking big and leave looking like the rock with a fat face and belly.......

and then for the next few days the muscle softens and i look like a overweight cushings type body.... before leaning out at somepoint... i know people say go to doctor etc... i have been asking my endo and they only seem interested in controlling my prolactin and running synachten tests...

 

[managing]

I get no sore joints at all and have been taking I3c for a week now along with all the other stuff for over a month, i might need to give the full list of things i take incase i'm causing more harm than good.

I take I3c (DIM), Curcumin ( 1/4 tbsp ) Ashwhghanda ( 1/4 tbsp) Grape Seed extract ( 1/4tbsp) biotin, iron, zinc, glucosamine sulphate, vitamin c 2000mg, multi vit, omega 3 fish oil, probiotic.

I have the appearace of someone with cushings 4/5 days of the week with 2 days of looking normal when my hormones level out for whatever reason... i do lift weights.. very heavy.. i seem to have an abundance of energy once i get going in the gym like i tap into something... i can continue to lift heavy for well over an hour if i wanted too... doing twice as many sets and reps than the average person... while doing so i begin to puff up/bloat and leave the gym twice the size i entering... not literally but i come in looking big and leave looking like the rock with a fat face and belly.......

and then for the next few days the muscle softens and i look like a overweight cushings type body.... before leaning out at somepoint... i know people say go to doctor etc... i have been asking my endo and they only seem interested in controlling my prolactin and running synachten tests...

Ah, yes: Iron. Let's add this to the list of stuff to stay as far away from as you can.
Iron's Dangers

Multivitamin. Aside from the fact that most are very low quality, they also often contain bad things. Like Iron, for example.

The rest of it you may want to look at the quality of the thing, and the logic/reasoning for taking it, but I don't know of any specific reasons not to.

As for the DIM, like I said, its a mixed case. Just watch out for warning signs and be ready to taper slowly at some point.

 

[managing]

Ah, yes: Iron. Let's add this to the list of stuff to stay as far away from as you can.
Iron's Dangers

Multivitamin. Aside from the fact that most are very low quality, they also often contain bad things. Like Iron, for example.

The rest of it you may want to look at the quality of the thing, and the logic/reasoning for taking it, but I don't know of any specific reasons not to.

As for the DIM, like I said, its a mixed case. Just watch out for warning signs and be ready to taper slowly at some point.

I should add that my reson for suggesting D3 in particular is, personally Ive had very good experience with it modulating and managing the other hormones.

 

[fendertele]

I should add that my reson for suggesting D3 in particular is, personally Ive had very good experience with it modulating and managing the other hormones.

I have no issue throwing the whole lot in the bin if i thought it was doing more harm than good.... but before you had posted all i had heard wasn this is great for lowering estrogen... this is great for insulin resistance... this control cortisol etc.. etc... so end up none the wiser...

as far as diets go... would a high fat high protein diet be something to try ? cutting carbs... or are carbs essential for post workout recovery... again read conflicting things. will look into some d3 i think i had used at some point then never re ordered...

its the sun vitamin ? i was working outdoors last year sun everyday.... this year .... night shift zero sun.

As for the i3c as far as i had read it was basically what you get from eating mass amounts of cruciferousvegetables.

Would i then get a rebound from the estrogen motabalising effects of eating lots of cruciferous veggies ? if not then why does taking it in pill form cause a massive rebound ?

 

[managing]

I have no issue throwing the whole lot in the bin if i thought it was doing more harm than good.... but before you had posted all i had heard wasn this is great for lowering estrogen... this is great for insulin resistance... this control cortisol etc.. etc... so end up none the wiser...

as far as diets go... would a high fat high protein diet be something to try ? cutting carbs... or are carbs essential for post workout recovery... again read conflicting things. will look into some d3 i think i had used at some point then never re ordered...

its the sun vitamin ? i was working outdoors last year sun everyday.... this year .... night shift zero sun.

As for the i3c as far as i had read it was basically what you get from eating mass amounts of cruciferousvegetables.

Would i then get a rebound from the estrogen motabalising effects of eating lots of cruciferous veggies ? if not then why does taking it in pill form cause a massive rebound ?

CW here, and I generally agree with it is that starches can be iffy, but sugar is absolutely essential.
Glucose and sucrose for diabetes.

Some here are very high on low fat diets. I personally never lost weight and never felt good. I think that when hormones are a question a diet with saturated fat is almost essential.

Yes, in fact the sun is a GREAT source of Vitamin D3. I would recommend at least reading through this: Calcirol - Liquid Vitamin D3
before buying any. I don't doubt there are other good ones, but I know many are suspect, and I've personally had very good experience with this product.

W/O looking up reference values, I would think the amount of DIM in cruc veggies is very low in comparison. I also believe that DIM is eliminated by cooking (and cruc veggies should always be cooked). I am also not sure I would describe the potential rebound as massive, but noticeable. I also should note, this was my experience and not something necessarily canonical. Again, unless you experience low E issues, this isn't pressing. Its quite possibly doing some good, just wanted to alert you to potential issues.

 

[fendertele]

CW here, and I generally agree with it is that starches can be iffy, but sugar is absolutely essential.
Glucose and sucrose for diabetes.

Some here are very high on low fat diets. I personally never lost weight and never felt good. I think that when hormones are a question a diet with saturated fat is almost essential.

Yes, in fact the sun is a GREAT source of Vitamin D3. I would recommend at least reading through this: Calcirol - Liquid Vitamin D3
before buying any. I don't doubt there are other good ones, but I know many are suspect, and I've personally had very good experience with this product.

W/O looking up reference values, I would think the amount of DIM in cruc veggies is very low in comparison. I also believe that DIM is eliminated by cooking (and cruc veggies should always be cooked). I am also not sure I would describe the potential rebound as massive, but noticeable. I also should note, this was my experience and not something necessarily canonical. Again, unless you experience low E issues, this isn't pressing. Its quite possibly doing some good, just wanted to alert you to potential issues.

No totally i appreciate this.... the thing i have noticed is the more fat you have the harder it is to lower estrogen... i remember when i somehow managed to lean out that crushing E was so much easier.... right now i'm taking all this stuff and still feel very E dominant.

As for lowering Fat this was my exerience too... i believe when i was low fat my Test dropped and was always cold esp my feet which was a sure sign something was off... so i upped my fats and it helped.

I think i'm gonna toss the lot in a cupboard and go back to basics with high protein/high fat.... its the carb situation im unsure how to handle... as i need carbs for working out both for energy and for recovery but which are the best to go for ?

I do believe my issues stem from a cortisol imbalance... someone had mentioned i may be cyclical cushings a few years back... which would make sense as to why i cant figure if im hypo or hyper.... the fact i have pit tumor can also mean i create too much cortisol at times of stress due to the acth...

I will go back to what kept me lean last year..... lots of grapes, sunshine ( vit D ), water and good sleeps.... however i was also doing manual labour which must have helped... as it was long but not overly strenuous... i probably put more strain on me at the gym in 2 hours than the whole day of work last year.

 

[managing]

No totally i appreciate this.... the thing i have noticed is the more fat you have the harder it is to lower estrogen... i remember when i somehow managed to lean out that crushing E was so much easier.... right now i'm taking all this stuff and still feel very E dominant.

As for lowering Fat this was my exerience too... i believe when i was low fat my Test dropped and was always cold esp my feet which was a sure sign something was off... so i upped my fats and it helped.

I think i'm gonna toss the lot in a cupboard and go back to basics with high protein/high fat.... its the carb situation im unsure how to handle... as i need carbs for working out both for energy and for recovery but which are the best to go for ?

I do believe my issues stem from a cortisol imbalance... someone had mentioned i may be cyclical cushings a few years back... which would make sense as to why i cant figure if im hypo or hyper.... the fact i have pit tumor can also mean i create too much cortisol at times of stress due to the acth...

I will go back to what kept me lean last year..... lots of grapes, sunshine ( vit D ), water and good sleeps.... however i was also doing manual labour which must have helped... as it was long but not overly strenuous... i probably put more strain on me at the gym in 2 hours than the whole day of work last year.

A lot of people find D3 to be stimulating and take it in the morning because of that. But for me it lowers cortisol (I assume) and taking it right before bed (as well as in the morning) works great for me.

 

[fendertele]

A lot of people find D3 to be stimulating and take it in the morning because of that. But for me it lowers cortisol (I assume) and taking it right before bed (as well as in the morning) works great for me.

Okay i'm gonna get on it any other things to try ?..... i'm guessing being bloated/water retention/puffy face is high cortisol right ?just incase im not gonna be lowering an already low cortisol situation ?

 

[Andman]

Bro, first thing id do is cut back your training. That „tapping into something“, feeling boundless energy etc is the stress cascade kicking in.
I know its hard to do (been there), esp for the ego, but at some point (night shifts, no sleep etc) too much of a good thing becomes dangerous to your health

 

[fendertele]

Bro, first thing id do is cut back your training. That „tapping into something“, feeling boundless energy etc is the stress cascade kicking in.
I know its hard to do (been there), esp for the ego, but at some point (night shifts, no sleep etc) too much of a good thing becomes dangerous to your health

See the thing is my lifts aint the strongest from the first set.... i get stronger as the workout goes on.... so to be able to lift to my max i need to tap into that to be hitting my maxes... most people i read eat well and they get their best lift at the start of the session and lose strength as they go on.... mines kind of hits it's peak mid session.

Would drinking oj at gym blunt the response ?