Either Adrenal Fatigue Or High Cortisol And Estrogen Dominance Question

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fendertele

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Its time to stop training for a while, easy walks for 20min, resting big time, focusing on dumping the crappy food and start loading on nutrient dense food. It sucks to do, but your body is telling you to


yeah I've known it for a long time... I would take a few weeks off and feel superb with rest and eating then once I felt better get back into the gym for fear of losing gains and strength all the time knowing what was coming... this time I decided to lift without cutting calories and see how I fair, but all that happens is im able to lift more and heavier and I stress my body out all the same.

Was really hoping there would be an answer to this without having to give up in the form of nutrition or supplements... so how did you overcome and get back to training properly as by your profile pic I can see you are not lifting lightly lol?
 
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fendertele

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my waking temp was 35.4c.

as soon as I woke up I reached for the thermometer without having to sit up and took the reading flat.

This is also when I feel my hunger the worst, if I don't eat fast I feel sick to the stomach.. you'd think I hadn't eaten in a week nvm had nearly 6k in calories the day before
 
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Cirion

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No, rest alone will not fix it. You must also provide the building blocks (nutrition), and sunlight helps a lot as well.

That temperature is LOOOOW. Just to give you an idea, the definition of Hypothermia is 95F (35C) and you're literally barely above that. Your body is literally barely keeping your temperature up enough to keep you alive. If you were to continue stressing your body I have no doubt you'd start developing cancer. Be thankful you are recognizing the problem now before you get cancer.

Nathan hatch who used to post here and has his own book now (F*** portion control) his waking temperature was like in the 95s when he developed thyroid cancer and it was a nightmare for him to recover from that.
 
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fendertele

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No, rest alone will not fix it. You must also provide the building blocks (nutrition), and sunlight helps a lot as well.

That temperature is LOOOOW. Just to give you an idea, the definition of Hypothermia is 95F (35C) and you're literally barely above that. Your body is literally barely keeping your temperature up enough to keep you alive. If you were to continue stressing your body I have no doubt you'd start developing cancer. Be thankful you are recognizing the problem now before you get cancer.

Nathan hatch who used to post here and has his own book now (F*** portion control) his waking temperature was like in the 95s when he developed thyroid cancer and it was a nightmare for him to recover from that.

Jesus never thought it was that bad!!! Thought a few good days of rnr and some refeeds would do the trick.

There is defo something wrong though as said woke with intense hunger that I ordered a full dominoes pizza to sort out... After eating it I crashed and woke up a few hours later but at first I felt like crap dull heavy head wouldn't call it a headache.. but anyways was totally fatigue so lay on my back for a further hour.. and all of a sudden got a complete burst of energy and felt great.

Booked in to see gp tomorrow really hope my thermometer is giving accurate readings or I'll look foolish if there's shows normal ones
 

Cirion

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Hormone regulation is far different than muscle strength recovery. Muscles can recover quickly, a few days to a few weeks generally from workouts.

Hormone regulation can take years. The reason for this (among many reasons) is that hormone disruption occurs due to disruption at the cellular level and full cellular regeneration of damaged skin, organs, bone, etc. takes a while since complete cellular turnaround is not a fast process and takes months to years.

The worse the abuse, the longer the recovery times. This is why things like calorie deficits can work for a time when we're younger, because we haven't built up grievances against the body yet and you tend to bounce back quickly after a bout of dieting if younger. By age 30-40 though most people find out that dieting no longer works, because after repeatedly dieting and exercising too hard, many cells in the body have been damaged including vital organs. I think people would stop being quick to go on harsh calorie deficits if they realized they are literally catabolizing their liver, kidneys, gut, heart, bones, everything, for their bodies to keep them alive from chronic dieting (and over exercising).

Then couple that with fat shaming and no sympathy upsets me now. "Just eat less and exercise and stop being a fattie" is now offensive to me, now that I have appreciation for how dieting does NOT work. These mindsets tends to spiral people into even worse health.

The good news is that complete recovery IS possible in 90%+ of cases even extreme ones, it just takes time and commitment.
 

Satellite

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@fendertele

Hey, man thought I would come on and give my two cents, because we have similar situations, very similar.

So I am going to preface by commenting on some of the other posts.
I am not saying they are wrong, they are right actually.
I am just going to go a bit deeper I think.
What I mean is that I think people tend to misunderstand Peat a bit.
Peat often touts stress and what to do to relieve it.
So people generally fear stress, makes perfectly sense.

However, I do not think Peat is saying stress is bad per se.
Stress is good, for example, we know that by-and-large, athletes and others that undergo physical stress to get stronger get sick less and live longer.
In other words, they become more resilient, the key to good health.
So while Peat and his listeners are right to fear stress, it isn't stress that is the problem, it is a failure to recover from said stress.
When you cannot recover and heal from stress, it becomes chronic and YOU DIE haha.

Having said that, I was in the same situation as you but a few months ago.
I am still working on it, but I am improving.
You will need to experiment, so things may get worse before they get better.

This whole thing for me started with working out, trying to figure out how to heal faster so I could stronger, faster, more ripped, etc.
I wanted to be generally healthy, but also have an attractive body to the opposite sex.
So I tried taking various legal andros, such as 1-andro, 4-andro, androsterone, DHEA, etc.
They all worked well, but some of the effects like lethargy were not practical for daily life.

Long story short I continue to research and refine and experiment and it is working out.

Anyway, your situation sounds like a combination of three things: hypo-gonadal, hypo-thyroid, and insulin insensitivity.
IDK enough (and you may not yet) to determine which is the main cause (chicken or egg).

I started posting on page 5 in the thread below about all of this stuff, if you want to know more about what I do, it may not help, but may put you in a better path at least.
Estrogen Is NOT Needed For Either Muscle Or Bone Growth / Anabolism

In short, I have a varicocele vein from a bike trick accident in my youth that crushed my left testicle right on the cross bar LOL.
So I am a bit hypo-gonadal, my T levels are naturally low.

Further, I am hypo-thyroid.
Which is why I MUST workout, it revs up my metabolism, if I don't workout I feel worse.
The key is finding the balance between what you can do and what you can recover from.

Lastly, I am insulin insensitive (working out will help this also).
Doing weight circuits is said to help this.
I also use a product called Battle Mead by Todd Lee MD that is designed for bodybuilders to improve this.
Todd Lee MD has another product, Thor's Hammer, that is a natural test booster, AI, SERM, viagra-like for men, androgen receptors turned on, estrogen receptors blocked.
These two really improved my general health, leaned me out, and squared up my chest.
I had whiter eyes and teeth, felt "lighter" and happier, and even smarter, I could think clearer.

You don't have to take those products, but I think finding supplements that create a similar environment is the right path.
Shift your hormonal profile towards masculinity by reducing estrogen and controlling cortisol, plus boosting androgens.
I also take Idealabs products for general health too, you can see my general regime in the link I posted above.

Anyway, in conclusion, after plenty of experimentation and research, and working with Idealabs, Peat theories, and haidut, I have figured things out for the most part.
I was doing it backwards.
Steroids made me feel much better, but they also stimulate the thyroid.
And haidut helped me realize that if the thyroid isn't working properly, then the hormones won't be used properly.

So I started fixing my thyroid and things are much better.
Also, I started addressing my mitochondria too and healing those using Idealabs Mitolipin and Idealabs Cardenosine.
My temps are now generally around 97 degrees, so not perfect yet.
But I feel better than ever in my life!

Also, some experiments I did on my rat may offer some perspective.
For example, I tried giving my rat letrozole for a bottle to see what would happen.
The rat felt more masculine and retained muscle better, but not necessarily smarter nor did it get leaner or chest squared up.
So not so sure high estrogen is really a problem.

In another experiment, I gave the rat Lean Xtreme (cort control) and tt-33 by iForce (T2) for 12 weeks.
Surprisingly, this one gave my rat better results than steroids.
The rat looked like it was on steroids, because it was lean, but its muscles were full and shaped roundly.

Oh and another experiment, my ray was guzzling preworkout daily for like a month.
That was the absolute worst one.
My poor rat eventually became extremely fatigued and mentally off, possibly from dehydration and not adrenal fatigue.
I was on a natural test booster, AI, AND 4-andro, and still got wrecked!
Nor did it really improve anything else, it was mostly destructive and downhill.
So now I avoid anything damaging to my adrenals like a plague!

Anyway, hope this helps!
Good luck!
 

fradon

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Hey I'm showing signs of either a cortisol issue or estrogen dominance but having a hard time figuring out the right way to combat it, as someone else explained with my symptoms before on here that it sounds like my body is bonking... which makes sense but still clueless as to how to even it out.

I have 2 questions.

Firstly what's the difference between high cortisol and adrenal fatigue? I've read both can be caused by excercise and my first thought was adrenal fatigue was low cortisol.. but then had my doubts as how can excercise cause both high and low cortisol, so then thought it may be when cortisol gets so high for a long period the adrenals burn out or am I way off?.

Second and probably the most confusing part for me.

High cortisol/adrenal fatigue can lead to estrogen rising/dominance

Carbs can lower cortisol which will avoid estrogen rising... but

Carbs can also cause estrogen dominance, so to avoid this go low carb/keto... but

Low carb causes cortisol to rise and when it rises it raises estrogen…

So i'm trying to get my head round this vicious cycle or is my information way off ?

I know my cortisol/estrogen issue is caused by my weight training as it resolves when I stop however I enjoy it and even cutting back makes no difference, it must be a huge stressor full stop.. so i'm looking to aid the adrenals to lower the cortisol and keep the estro dominance at bay if possible.

thanks

carbs cause estrogen dominance only when you are insulin resistant. when you are not insulin resistant insulin signals the release the making and release of testosterone and free T. as insulin lowers SHBG and the testicles have insuline receptors that inform that the body is not in a state of famine and its okay to make sex hormones.

stress kills sex hormones because the body focusses more on making cortisol instead of adrogens. keeping you alive is more important to the body than making you horny.

high cortisol can be a sign of excess cortsiol release or cortisol resistance. high cortisol can make you have a fat face just like peopel with CUSHINGS.

adrenal fatigue is several problems under the same umbrella. one is the PTA axis issues which is a problem with the pituatary, thalamus, or adrenals and thyroid as well.. second is problem with mitochondra not making enough energy.

one thing that can help recover from adrenal fatigue is ice cold showers. this shock to the system can help ignite the adrenals like relighting a pilot light.
 

morgan#1

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Super @fradon! I like this about reading the forum. Your info was something I couldn’t find, and it helps ME a lot.
 

sunraiser

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Jesus never thought it was that bad!!! Thought a few good days of rnr and some refeeds would do the trick.

There is defo something wrong though as said woke with intense hunger that I ordered a full dominoes pizza to sort out... After eating it I crashed and woke up a few hours later but at first I felt like crap dull heavy head wouldn't call it a headache.. but anyways was totally fatigue so lay on my back for a further hour.. and all of a sudden got a complete burst of energy and felt great.

Booked in to see gp tomorrow really hope my thermometer is giving accurate readings or I'll look foolish if there's shows normal ones

You've literally said earlier in the thread that a few weeks rest gave you a good sense of recovery.

It may well be the case. I understand not wanting to lose gains. I felt so awful about all the effort I was putting in, like soul crushing effort, that I pushed myself way too long and crashed badly.

Your health is more important than muscle gain. Muscle gain does not equal health.

If it helps, I haven't lifted for two years and I've kept a lot of muscle (though not so much body comp!). Once you have muscle it's really hard to lose.

Gonna go against the flow here and say forget temps. It'll make you neurotic and overly micromanage your diet and healing approach in a way that's not conducive to recovery.

Wellbeing is a feeling - your body will manage temp just fine on its own. Go by feel.

Cortisol issues are greatly fixed by a good circadian rhythm, though our bodies are adaptive. Lots of people do night work and cope just fine.

Though, in the longer term I think it's important to drastically reduce the night work. Circadian rhythm and daylight in the eyes is important for proper hormone secretion in many regards. This is obviously not something to immediately stress about but just a consideration for moving forwards.
 
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fendertele

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I've felt a massive improvement with supplementation, not calorie counting more carbs and sugar.

For a week or two I had a massive appetite bordering on 7/8k a day but after a while it slowly decreased my body must've really needed those calories to find balance then went back to 4/5k without feeling hungry or sick.

Biggest improvements have been a supp called berocca which is filled with loads of bits but mainly b bits coupled with taking 2000mg of vit c.

Not sure where I read it may have been here but I decided to try I taking sugar while working out and have no longer felt the same post workout symptoms so it must be working... Eating smarties all the way through my workouts, intact I'm even doing more intensive cardio on top.

I've put some fat on which I'm taking as a good sign as for a while I was consuming 8k calories and was worryingly not putting fat on which is unusual for me as I'm an endomorph.

So yeah with the supps increase of carbs and eating when hungry giving in to cravings..mostly chocolate and intra workout smarties I'm feeling back on track
 

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