Tooth Remineralization

[baccheion]

Thanks for point that out. It prompted me to do a little more research into the pH of our mouth. Apparently in a healthy person, the pH of the mouth is kept at 7.5 or higher due to our saliva, which contains calcium, phosphate, arginine, and bicarbonate.

Coca Cola has an acidity of 2.5, oj has an acidity of 3.5, and milks acidity is 6.5

Coca Cola is definitely the worst offender, and oj doesn’t seem like it’s too clean either. Only oj causes gum discomfort and really worsens the inflammation for me, so there might be something more to oj than just the acidity, and in any case, I’ve noticed that too much sucrose isn’t good for my general well being anyways. Not that it needs to be eliminated, but moderated.

https://www.dentistryiq.com/articles/2015/02/magic-of-ph-oral-health.html

So perhaps rinsing the mouth with sodium bicarbonate after meals, on top of eating lots of calcium, vitamin D, And k2 is important as well for maintaining oral health.

Sugar/acids wouldn't be as problematic if salivary flow (associated with acetylcholine and histamine) was normal and enriched with minerals (calcium, iodide, etc) and vitamin K2 MK-4. That is, the actions of saliva should normalize mouth pH in ~1 hour.

Sugars and grains can indirectly affect oral health by wasting minerals/nutrients and vitamin C. In order to neutralize serum pH as blood sugar spikes, for example, the body enters a degenerative state to get calcium from bone. Cavities eventually occur if wasted nutrients aren't replenished or the body is consistently in a catabolic state, as teeth are broken down more than remineralized.

 

[Runenight201]

Makes sense.

The cavities definitely corresponded with a downturn in my health for the past 2 weeks (significantly higher refined sucrose/grain consumption, zero animal flesh, minimal fruit intake).

Sometimes it takes a rude awakening to clue one into the state of things.

However I just got morning wood for the first time in 2 weeks...so I think I’m back on the right track lol.

My only sucrose consumption here on out will be in the form of fruit and the occasional maple syrup. I completely forgot how awesome whole fruit makes me feel. I just had 3 mandarins, a banana, a mango, and some pears and now I actually feel motivated to study, whereas the past 2 weeks have just been a sludge of procrastination and low energy.

 

[Waynish]

Are you consuming milk? I brush my teeth twice a day with flouride (Crest 3d white) and drink milk like 1-2 meals a day and I've never had any sort of tooth trouble.
Tbh I don't know how NovaMin could be unhealthy, I guess it depends on what your time scale is

So fluoride is bad for every bone except one bone, the tooth?

 

[Runenight201]

It’s pretty evident that fluoride protects teeth from cavities. Just read the study I posted and you’ll see that fluoride hardened and remineralizd the tooth comparable to NovaMin.

Whether it’s systemically good for your body when ingested is another question.

 

[Waynish]

It’s pretty evident that fluoride protects teeth from cavities. Just read the study I posted and you’ll see that fluoride hardened and remineralizd the tooth comparable to NovaMin.

Whether it’s systemically good for your body when ingested is another question.

By what mechanism does fluoride add minerals to the surface of teeth?

 

[Runenight201]

It doesn’t add it protects from the acidity of foods.

NovaMin which is a calcium sodium phosphosilicate aids in the remineralization of teeth by mimicking the calcium and phosphate naturally found in saliva.

Then there’s the saliva itself which if flowing properly contains all the minerals necessary for protecting the Ph balance of the mouth and providing the minerals necessary to remineralize. Being in an anabolic, stress free state is also necessary so that the body can build and not destroy, which require proper micronutrients as well as D/k2

Edit: lol I see my contradiction, ima dig into more studies and see what I can find

 

[Runenight201]

Effect of tooth-bound fluoride on enamel demineralization/ remineralization in vitro. - PubMed - NCBI

In vitro study showing enamel soaked in flouride solution produced under half as many cavaties as control. Enamel treated to dicalcium phosphate dihydrate produces under a quarter as many as control.

The effect of a low fluoride containing toothpaste on the development of dental caries and microbial composition using a caries generating model devi... - PubMed - NCBI

This study is interesting, which shows in Vivo that a low flouride toothpaste was not sufficient to prevent lesions or pathogenic bacteria, even tho the enamel registered an uptake in flouride concentration. It was determined that flouride could not protect the tooth if there is a continued presence of acidic forming bacteria.

Effects of a chewing gum containing phosphoryl oligosaccharides of calcium (POs-Ca) and fluoride on remineralization and crystallization of enamel su... - PubMed - NCBI

Here we have an in situ study which showed that bovine enamel treated to a chewing gum which consisted of calcium, phosphate, and flouride successfully produced a 26% remineralization rate, compared to calcium and phosphates 21%.

In fact that last study has me wanting to go buy some calcium + phosphate gum.

But chewing gum is known to generate increased saliva content, which could explain the increased remineralization.

In fact, the more I look into this, the more it becomes apparent that the most important factor in tooth health is saliva generation with sufficient calcium and phosphate ions.


Remineralization of enamel subsurface lesions by chewing gum with added calcium. - PubMed - NCBI

Here we have trident xtra care (which has calcium added onto it in the form of CPP-ACP??) had a 20% remineralization rate.

It’s worth noting that CPP-ACP was more successful in remineralization compared with calcium carbonate combined with citric acid.

Ima go buy me some trident xtra care to chew after my meals lol. If I could find some gum with phosphate in it as well that’s a slam dunk

 

[YourUniverse]

Read "Kiss Your Dentist Goodbye". Theres a lengthy thread on this board. Dont let acid sit on your teeth, especially overnight

 

[Inaut]

I tried to avoid fluoride toothpaste for a long time and teeth just got worse (I think it was more indicative of my state of health during that time). Anyways, I used to have bruxism (not sure if I still do) which lead to the destruction of my enamel and gums. Since changing up diet, incorporating supplements and switching back to tooth paste with Novamin, my teeth look a lot better and enamel seems to be much better as well. I'm a fan of novamin.

 

[Juniper]

Flouride irritates my gums and makes my teeth sensitive. I figured this out years ago and switched to no fluoride toothpaste. There was also a period of time when I was taking calcium bentonite clay every so often. During that time, the dentist was so impressed with my and my husband’s teeth he told us to keep doing what we were doing. Unfortunately, the last five years have been emotionally traumatic for me and my eating, grooming, and health habits went out the window. As a result, my health has declined. Recently, was at the dentist and my gums were bleeding a lot - way more than usual, enough to make the dentist worry. Got home and remembered I had been taking aspirin and using fluoride toothpaste. I will continue to take aspirin occasionally (and add a bit more vitamin k), but switched back to no fluoride toothpaste and dug out my clay. I’ve also mixed baking soda with water in a bottle to use as mouthwash. I’ve started trying to take care of myself again ...we’ll see if I can turn this back around!

 

[Runenight201]

@Juniper

Check out this thread and especially @sweetpeat success with his modified routine, Im thinking of doing something similar but substituting out the crest toothpaste with the NovaMin (hopefully it doesn't have glycerin...)

This Is A Big Piece Of The Health Puzzle

This on top of D/K2 and less frequent snacking I'm hoping will reverse these damn caries!

 

[Runenight201]

I tried to avoid fluoride toothpaste for a long time and teeth just got worse (I think it was more indicative of my state of health during that time). Anyways, I used to have bruxism (not sure if I still do) which lead to the destruction of my enamel and gums. Since changing up diet, incorporating supplements and switching back to tooth paste with Novamin, my teeth look a lot better and enamel seems to be much better as well. I'm a fan of novamin.

I wonder why they don't sell it in the US....I literally just stumbled upon that study upon searching for tooth remineralization, and it makes complete sense why it would work, because from further research, anything that puts calcium and phosphate into the mouth usually aids remineralization. Top a consistently neutral to basic mouth, anabolic conditions, D/K2, I can't see why the teeth wouldn't heal themselves.

 

[Juniper]

@Juniper

Check out this thread and especially @sweetpeat success with his modified routine, Im thinking of doing something similar but substituting out the crest toothpaste with the NovaMin (hopefully it doesn't have glycerin...)

This Is A Big Piece Of The Health Puzzle

This on top of D/K2 and less frequent snacking I'm hoping will reverse these damn caries!

Thanks for the read. My teeth were always strong while my gums are weak and my husband is the opposite. During the time we went no fluoride and added the clay, both of us had no cavities and great oral health. Our diet also was better in that we were getting a good amount of vit a,d,k. I believe there are probably different ways to successfully approach this and the novamin sounds promising, but I’m going to try what worked for me previously and see if it helps. If it doesn’t I will re-evaluate!

 

[baccheion]

Thanks for the read. My teeth were always strong while my gums are weak and my husband is the opposite. During the time we went no fluoride and added the clay, both of us had no cavities and great oral health. Our diet also was better in that we were getting a good amount of vit a,d,k. I believe there are probably different ways to successfully approach this and the novamin sounds promising, but I’m going to try what worked for me previously and see if it helps. If it doesn’t I will re-evaluate!

Gums health is often improved by vitamin C, CoQ10, and collagen enhancers (silicon/monomethylsilanetriol, glycine/gelatin, MSM, etc).

I currently use Uncle Harry's Natural Toothpaste. It's fluoride-/glycerin-free and has bentonite clay as an ingredient.

 

[TibRex]

Remineralization Effect of Topical NovaMin Versus Sodium Fluoride (1.1%) on Caries-Like Lesions in Permanent Teeth

Conclusion:
NovaMin dentifrice appears to have a greater effect on remineralization of carious-like lesions when compared to that of fluoride containing dentifrice in permanent teeth.

Anyone try this out? I'm thinking about ordering sensodyne with NovaMin from the UK. I think ideally we support tooth mineralization through d/k2/calcium, but why not support it superficially as well?

Interesting ... will check NovaMin out when I next pop in the pharmacy. There's something else you might be interested in - namely, stevia. If you take a tsp or two of the powder in water or any other drink, you'll find your teeth becoming very hard in an hour or two. You'll experience the unusual effect of hardness when you brush your teeth. The effect wears off in 24 hrs unfortunately, so you'll need to ingest stevia regularly. What this works is a mystery to me. Can anyone knowledgeable on stevia's properties please give an explanation for this weird and wonderful effect?

 

[Inaut]

Interesting ... will check NovaMin out when I next pop in the pharmacy. There's something else you might be interested in - namely, stevia. If you take a tsp or two of the powder in water or any other drink, you'll find your teeth becoming very hard in an hour or two. You'll experience the unusual effect of hardness when you brush your teeth. The effect wears off in 24 hrs unfortunately, so you'll need to ingest stevia regularly. What this works is a mystery to me. Can anyone knowledgeable on stevia's properties please give an explanation for this weird and wonderful effect?

I've heard of mild estrogenic effects from Stevia...could be overblown in my mind....

 

[TibRex]

Thanks for point that out. It prompted me to do a little more research into the pH of our mouth. Apparently in a healthy person, the pH of the mouth is kept at 7.5 or higher due to our saliva, which contains calcium, phosphate, arginine, and bicarbonate.

Coca Cola has an acidity of 2.5, oj has an acidity of 3.5, and milks acidity is 6.5

Coca Cola is definitely the worst offender, and oj doesn’t seem like it’s too clean either. Only oj causes gum discomfort and really worsens the inflammation for me, so there might be something more to oj than just the acidity, and in any case, I’ve noticed that too much sucrose isn’t good for my general well being anyways. Not that it needs to be eliminated, but moderated.

https://www.dentistryiq.com/articles/2015/02/magic-of-ph-oral-health.html

So perhaps rinsing the mouth with sodium bicarbonate after meals, on top of eating lots of calcium, vitamin D, And k2 is important as well for maintaining oral health.

I read that it takes 32 glasses of water to neutralize the acidity of either coffee or coke ... Yes, acidic fruit juice hurts the teeth. I did an interesting experiment recently after realizing that my body's pH has been too low.

I normally take half of tsp of magnesium chloride powder + half a tsp of baking soda first in water first thing in the morning. I decided to up that to twice a day, the second time close to bedtime.

Interestingly, following the new regimen, I found that I could drink coffee in the evening and even before bedtime without getting sleeplessness. Previously, I'd get sleepless if I drank coffee after 7 pm. It looks like caffeine is not the culprit; the body's pH appears to be the cause. Since applying the new regimen, I've also noticed that the finger joint pains and numbness in the feet have lessened appreciably. The unexpected latter benefits are a surprising and much welcomed spin off.

 

[baccheion]

I read that it takes 32 glasses of water to neutralize the acidity of either coffee or coke ... Yes, acidic fruit juice hurts the teeth. I did an interesting experiment recently after realizing that my body's pH has been too low.

I normally take half of tsp of magnesium chloride powder + half a tsp of baking soda first in water first thing in the morning. I decided to up that to twice a day, the second time close to bedtime.

Interestingly, following the new regimen, I found that I could drink coffee in the evening and even before bedtime without getting sleeplessness. Previously, I'd get sleepless if I drank coffee after 7 pm. It looks like caffeine is not the culprit; the body's pH appears to be the cause. Since applying the new regimen, I've also noticed that the finger joint pains and numbness in the feet have lessened appreciably. The unexpected latter benefits are a surprising and much welcomed spin off.

The morning is a good time to consume 24-32 ounces warm or room temperature water to rehydrate, alkalize, and clear toxins.

 

[Birdie]

Chew gum a lot for massiter increase, I think that one is big on chewing.
Bro that is a ridiculous amount of iodine. Why are you doing that?
Tell us how the mk4 goes.

I was using Iodoral (iodine) for years when I found Peat. I think he said to save it (iodine) in case of nuclear disaster.
Quite a few old bottles sit on my shelf...

 

[Birdie]

The morning is a good time to consume 24-32 ounces warm or room temperature water to rehydrate, alkalize, and clear toxins.

Huge amounts of water is more standard medical advice I quit after finding Peat. He doesn't recommend it as I recall.
With all the milk and oj he recommends, I never find myself thristy.

But, @Runenight201 thanks for the reminder about the sodium bicarbonate. I've been slacking on that.
Right now I am drinking and swishing a little glass of it.
Another thing you might like to do that I like is to use a little bicarbonate with a wet toothbrush on the teeth.
Then, I just swallow it. And I feel virtuous immediately as I get my CO2 benefit.