Thinking About Trying Rhodiola

Discussion in 'Messtafarian' started by messtafarian, Nov 3, 2015.

  1. messtafarian

    messtafarian Member

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    I bought this "adaptogen" on Amazon because I read it blocks, lowers or antagonizes cortisol. But as I usually do I get around to Googling "Suppelement X Estrogen" to see if it is an estrogenic herb. A lot of "natural" herbal medicines are really estrogenic and that usually puts me off of taking them, but there are also studies that show Rhodiola is helpful with anemia, which I also have.

    But rhodiola also "competitively binds to estrogenic receptors" suggesting that it has "estrogenic action."

    Once we dive into hormonal imbalance I really get confused. For example mifepristone, which can cure an adrenal tumor, also blocks progesterone. Mifepristone can also cure fibroids, they say by "blocking the progesterone receptor." So that's confusing, because I've also read everywhere regarding alternative health that estrogen is the *cause* of fibroids and progesterone can *cure* fibroids. When you add substances that can block glucocortoids AND progesterone, is that helpful or not?

    Anyway the above is just to illustrate my confusion about this stuff. So if rhodiola "competitively binds to the estrogen receptor," does that make it estrogenic? Or does it actually block the effects of estrogen because of its competition for the receptor?

    I wish I understood this better.
     
  2. Interactome

    Interactome Member

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    I found this:
    http://cancerres.aacrjournals.org/c...ract?sid=e3ed0e30-7771-4f63-ae3c-218dd1432476

    Evaluation of the medicinal botanical Rhodiola rosea for estrogenicity
    Our previous work has identified numerous plant extracts that interact with estrogen receptor (ER) and induce estrogenic responses in ovariectomized (OVX) female rats and in cell lines. While many such botanicals are traditionally used for gynecological complaints, others are used for different purposes and thus their estrogenicity was unexpected. Rhodiola rosea Crassulaceae (RR) root, also known as roseroot, Arctic root, or goldenroot, is a medicinal botanical with a long history of use as a strengthening tonic and an adaptogen. RR has been used to relieve perimenopausal symptoms such as fatigue, depression, and cognitive and memory problems. Recent studies have shown antimutagenic and anticarcinogenic effects in vitro and in vivo, and that RR increases effectiveness of cancer chemotherapeutic agents while protecting bone marrow stem cells and hepatocytes against chemotoxicity. Since patients who have or are at risk for hormone-responsive cancers might seek to avoid estrogenic agents, the aim of this study was to determine if a standard extract of RR (3% rosavins: 1% salidrosides) demonstrates estrogenic activity, using in vivo and in vitro measures. In an in vitro competitive ER binding assay, significant dose-dependent inhibition of radiolabeled estradiol (E2) binding to ER was observed with RR. When fed to ovariectomized (OVX) female rats at a dose equivalent to 30% of the recommended human dose for 30 days, RR did not increase uterine weight, reduce serum LH levels, nor alter serum E2 levels or hepatic estrogen 2-hydroxylase (E2OHase) activity. Further, in OVX rats treated with E2, administration of RR resulted in enhanced (30%, p<0.05) hepatic E2OHase activity and a slight reduction (10-20%, NS) in serum E2 levels; however, RR did not alter uterine weight nor LH levels in the E2-treated rats beyond that observed with E2 alone. In other studies, possible proliferative effects of RR were examined using MCF-7 breast cancer cells. At 24 hours after seeding, cells were counted (zero time) and parallel flasks were treated with E2 (1nM), or RR at low (.065μg/ml) or high (.065mg/ml) doses, or a combination of RR and E2; a non-treatment group was used as control. After 24, 48, and 72 hours of exposure, cells were counted and the medium and treatment renewed. Growth of cells treated with high dose RR, with or without E2, was identical to that of E2-treated or untreated control cells, respectively, while low dose RR exhibited a slight stimulation of growth. These studies demonstrate that RR interacts with the ER, suggesting estrogenic or antiestrogenic potential. However, treatment of OVX rats did not invoke estrogenic responses in uterus or pituitary. Further, when administered with estradiol, RR does not potentiate estrogen action in OVX rats, and appears to increase metabolism of E2. This work suggests that RR, when taken orally, is unlikely to present an estrogenic risk to women who may seek to avoid such agents.

    I don't know about the "low dose RR exhibited a slight stimulation of growth" part though.

    I'm considering trying some too.
     
  3. Interactome

    Interactome Member

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    But I don't know its effect on serotonin:

    The effects of Rhodiola rosea extract on 5-HT level, cell proliferation and quantity of neurons at cerebral hippocampus of depressive rats. - PubMed - NCBI

    "In conclusion the results demonstrated that Rhodiola rosea extract could improve 5-HT level in hippocampus in depressive rats, and low dosage Rhodiola rosea could induce neural stem cell proliferation at hippocampus to return to normal level, repairing the injured neurons at hippocampus."

    I should try to look at the article content and see what exactly happened to the Serotonin levels.
     
  4. whit

    whit Member

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    Great research Interactome!:D
    I've read that the predominant beneficial compounds from rhodiola root were borne mostly out of the stressful environment it is grown in. When its not from Siberia or like climates its lacking those. Not unlike sugar maples won't have high sugar content in there sap when grown in warmer climates. I'll have to find it so there's a link to verify the source. I found out by having used the same brand for years then all of a sudden
    There was nolonger the effect. They had changed their source. But the widcrafted from the right places has amazing results. I don't nor would I now advise daily use though. Liquid form seemed more effective too.
     
  5. thebigpeatowski

    thebigpeatowski Member

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    I recently bought some Rhodiola too. I haven't started taking it yet as I wanted to do some more research, so thanks for your input Interactome.

    I have the same concerns as messtafarian regarding the estrogenic properties of many herbs and I was wondering if you ever got around to experimenting with the Rhodiola messtafarian???

    I'm looking at using this herb for brain issues...I've been struggling with poor memory/recall and overall declining cognitive function.....low brain energy. Probably started pre-Peat, but I can't really remember exactly when it began....all I know is that it isn't really getting better despite trying a zillion different things over the last two years.

    Peat mentions that some brains can become diabetic, where the glucose can't get in...I guess those brains need more ketones. I've been taking some MCT oil in my coffee on occasion, that seems helpful.

    I'd like to know more about the "amazing results" that you had whit, if you don't mind sharing?
     
  6. whit

    whit Member

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    The effect that I've noticed is just clarity pure undistraction. For an ADD brain that is a difficult achievement.
    As far as the source we always used herbpharm brand glycerine form.
    I'm with you on the mct or even coconut oil in coffee. Similar feeling, but as for the duration, not as long as rhodiola. If the dose is administred throughout the day it could possibly last longer with either.
     
  7. DaveFoster

    DaveFoster Member

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    Caffeine raises ACTH, but it also prevents Alzheimer's. It's all trade-offs.
     
  8. whit

    whit Member

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    Thanks Dave. I wasn't aware of that direct link.
    Coffee is pretty much a staple around here.
     
  9. thebigpeatowski

    thebigpeatowski Member

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    I drink lots of coffee....unfortunately I can't recall what ACTH does. Feeling very much like I have Alzheimer's:(
     
  10. whit

    whit Member

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    Coffee is good. cream and coconut oil in coffee is even better.
    Egg yolks are great for our eyes and brain.
    Peat says Milk is the best natural source of progesterone.
     
  11. thebigpeatowski

    thebigpeatowski Member

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    Thank you whit...I take 12 oz. of coffee and add gelatin, honey and 4 oz. of milk to each mug full. I usually drink three of these per day. I've been experimenting recently with adding MCT oil to this drink and I like very much, but the extra fat kills my appetite and then I end up not eating enough.

    I also eat lots of eggs, milk, cheese, fruit, oysters, liver etc...been eating really good for years, so I don't think it's a lack in my diet. I use Protest-E topically now, used tons of it orally for about a year.

    It feels like my brain isn't getting enough energy...or it's inflamed....not sure. Kinda comes and goes.

    I tried pregnenolone back in December (maybe early January, can't really recall) and it made me super irritable/angry and my skin broke out, so I quit.

    Perhaps I'll give the Rhodiola a go...
     
  12. whit

    whit Member

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    What source of pregnenalone were you using?
    Are you getting glycine.
     
  13. thebigpeatowski

    thebigpeatowski Member

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  14. whit

    whit Member

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    It's never had that effect for us. But we've been using Idea labs lately and its great. I've never really got much
    from swansons product line. Just saying it may be the source. Many of these companies use fillers that counteract the beneficial compounds. :wtf:
    Your diet is quite complete. How long have you been Peating?
     
  15. thebigpeatowski

    thebigpeatowski Member

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    Hmmmm, well the only other ingredients in this pregnenolone are rice flour and gelatin (capsule). I dunno, perhaps I didn't give it long enough?

    I'm no scientist, but it just felt like the pregnenolone somehow raised estrogen in me...if that's even possible?

    I found Peat in early October of 2013, took me a couple months to read and figure everything out though, so really Peating for 2.25 years.

    I've been taking various (doses & brands) of thyroid meds for 15 years.

    I get close to 10 grams of glycine a day, but it hasn't always been that high. The extra glycine I add (above what's in my gelatin) is a fairly recent addition, just last month.

    My brain feels like it's in a steady decline despite enjoying many many other health improvements from Peating....any help is MOST appreciated!!!
     
  16. celica1984

    celica1984 Member

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    I've tried it before. I think it does work pretty well. I noticed early on a great enhancement of endurance on it. I was walking through the woods and decided to run, and I'd suddenly run at least 2-3x further than before just on a whim, but this was on a powder of whole root bought from ebay and approximately 1 teaspoon full. On the extract capsules I bought, the effects like that were significantly less. As far as stress reduction, it worked pretty well. It made me feel how I wanted to feel, and have faster reaction times/etc. Just the tolerance to it built up relatively quickly and the "magic" effects wore off quickly. Personally I feel the best adaptogen for the money is schisandra, followed by eleuthero. Eleuthero gives more "energy" but schisandra makes you feel good, I think quite similar to rhodiola, if not better in some ways as it's calming but still stimulating, whereas Rhodiola was a lot more stimulating, if not too much so.
     
  17. thebigpeatowski

    thebigpeatowski Member

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    Awesome celica1984, thank you so much for sharing your experience!

    I tried two types of ginseng (Panax & Siberian) in separate experiments several years ago and I LOVED IT!!!

    But now I can't remember which one it was that I loved :meh:...alright, well I'm off to try the Rhodiola since it's sitting here.

    I'll report back later......THANKS everyone!!!
     
  18. whit

    whit Member

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    Great let us know your results.
    One other we use on a regular basis is bacopa herb. Its really helped my mother.
    I have however heard of some contamination issues with this one. Looking into it now
    Great calming clairity.
     
  19. whit

    whit Member

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    How's your rhodiola experience going?
     
  20. drk

    drk Member

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