Reverse T3

Discussion in 'Ray Peat Quotes' started by Birdie, Nov 8, 2012.

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  1. Birdie

    Birdie Member

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    REVERSE T3

    Yes, it's probably induced by stress, with cortisol inducing the type of deiodinase that makes the inactive rT3. A low sugar diet can cause chronically high cortisol. If you are eating enough fruit and protein, I think the T3 of natural thyroid will help to correct the stress/inflammatory metabolism that is connected with the reverse T3.

    There isn't any natural T3 product, in the sense of biologically created, but the activity of T3 is so great that the effective dose, of a few micrograms, couldn't introduce a significant amount of industrial junk; the excipients are the main concern, and whether the people making the tablets understand what they are doing. Cytomel and Cynomel, so far, have been very well made, and there isn't any other T3 product that I trust.

    Quote copied from Danny Roddy's page with RP answers.
     
  2. OP
    Birdie

    Birdie Member

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    My husband's recent lab values show a high rT3 of 50.

    He had been taking 1 Armour, 1 Cynoplus, 3/4 Cynomel. For the past year he has been tired.
    As I watched him, it looked like he was returning to his former hypothyroid state.
    He had been on 3 Armours, before switching to the above.

    He did really well for years on Armour. Then, when the formula changed, he went downhill. He was quite resistant to changing though until the labs came back showing the high rT3.

    So, after 1 day of using 1 Armour, 3/4 Cynoplus, 1 1/2 Cynomel, he reports an energy burst.
    He did the cynomel in tiny pieces all day long.

    He is also finally willing to use more sugar in his coffee, more fruit and he drank a Coke yesterday. Also, taking more salt.

    *Armour 60mg
     
  3. narouz

    narouz Member

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    That's fascinating, Birdie.
    But I'm going to have to process it a little.
    Cynomel is a dessicated glandular like Armour.
    So now we're up to 2&1/2 of dessicated gland.
    Then we add in 3/4 Cynoplus...Cynoplus: remind me of what that is....
     
  4. narouz

    narouz Member

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    ...okay, so CynoPlus
    is a 4:1 blend of T4:T3.
    I assume it is synthetic.

    ...okay...gotta go to sleep....
     
  5. Ray-Z

    Ray-Z Member

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    Cynomel (the Mexican version of cytomel) is synthetic T3.
     
  6. OP
    Birdie

    Birdie Member

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    And Cynoplus is synthetic T3/T4.
     
  7. GregW

    GregW Member

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    Birdie,

    Since rT3 is made from T4 then your husband might need to experiment with his T4/T3 ratio (like he already started). I personally cannot tolerate any T4.

    If he is under stress and he reduces the amount of T4 available to be converted to rT3 and takes more T3 that can be used by his body then he might find some improvement.

    He is going to have to experiment and find out what his body needs...
     
  8. charlie

    charlie The Law & Order Admin

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    Greg, do you get any symptoms from not being able to tolerate T4 when you take it?
     
  9. GregW

    GregW Member

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    It has some hypo effects on me like cold hands and low energy, but the main issue is that it messes with my sanity. My thinking gets clouded and I am easily confused. I also get quite emotional.

    Every time I have tried a supplement with T4 everything goes great until a week to ten days. Then I start to fall apart. It then takes me another week to get back to normal.

    Currently I only take T3. I will try the T4/T3 combos again but I will wait a while longer...
     
  10. narouz

    narouz Member

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    I was thinking that was Cytomel.
    But, you're right, Cynomel is synthetic T3.
    I guess Cytomel and Cynomel are the same thing...? :roll:
     
  11. charlie

    charlie The Law & Order Admin

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    Greg, thank you. Just want to know what to look out for just in case that happens to me or anyone else.
     
  12. kettlebell

    kettlebell Member

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    I think this was the reason for my crash. Very interesting and another grenade to dodge!
     
  13. narouz

    narouz Member

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    I've just been unraveling, because of this thread Birdie,
    that I've had a huge blindspot about Peat and thyroid supplementation.

    All along, for months now, I've been operating under the idea
    that Peat's favorite thyroid--
    the one he takes himself and the first he recommends--
    was a dessicated thyroid. :oops:

    I now see that CynoPlus is a blended synthetic of T4 & T3. :oops:

    I also was under the (mistaken) impression that Cytomel and Cynomel
    were produced by the same company
    (Not! But they are the same substance--T3).
    I plead PUFA brain-poisoning.

    One reason I goofed on this is that I've only taken Armour as my thyroid supp.
    All the "cyno" and "cyto" products were a bit blurry to me, obviously.

    So...this makes me rethink things.
    I guess Peat doesn't think the other T's--
    T1, T2, in dessicated are of much if any importance.

    One weird thing, to me, about CynoPlus:
    Because it is synthetic and they therefore could proportion the ratios of T3 to T4
    anyway they wanted...
    ...why didn't they make it more like the human thyroid, about 3:1...?

    Anyway: now, this makes me want to try CynoPlus.

    Back to your topic, Birdie.
    So it looks like, in switching your hubbie's meds,
    you've progressively been, in effect, lowering the T4
    and raising the T3.
    And with promising results, it would seem.
    That would make sense,
    given that Peat says some do better when the T3:T4 is more like human ration (3:1).

    Somewhere, Peat says that when the body can't process the rate/amount of T4 coming in,
    that the T4 may have an anti-thyroid effect.
    I believe that's the way he put it: "may."
    My doctor, when I asked him about this, he said he thought the excess T4 just became inactive.
    (Not holding my doc up as some pillar of truth--
    more as an example of what traditional, typical doctors today will think).

    So I've ordered some CynoPlus.
    Any advice on switching from Armour to it, Birdie?
    Have you been able to figure out if one is stronger than the other, etc...?
     
  14. OP
    Birdie

    Birdie Member

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    Yes, narouz, cynomel is the Mexican T3 and cytomel the one you need to get Rxd. RP says he considers them good in that they contain no additives that might cause trouble.
     
  15. OP
    Birdie

    Birdie Member

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    Hi Narouz,
    I've got a cold and my head is a fuzz. But it will take a little time for the Cynoplus to arrive so you can prepare.
    My husband will not give up his Armour. This is not because it works for him. He knows the formula changed and that the stuff is unreliable now.
    No, he wants to use them up. Very thrifty.
    I haven't been able to do a perfect job with his conversion to more T3, since I can't add 2 + 2 at the moment.

    I seem to recall hearing Peat mention a 4:1 or 5:1 ratio T3/T4 somewhere. But it's all personalized to work.

    Yeah, he was too high T4 plus only using Armour. I switched some Cynoplus for some of the Armour last month. It was only when he got his test results back, that he became a believer. Facts. I thought he wasn't converting T4 properly but he had to know.

    For the record, I think this is the dose he is on: 1 Armour on arising, 1/2 Cynoplus with bkfst, then bites of T3 (Cynomel) until 4. I don't have him taking a bit of Cynoplus (T3+T4) after dinner, but I do that.
     
  16. OP
    Birdie

    Birdie Member

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    Also, and important, my husband has increased his protein along with more fruit. He was putting a tsp sugar in his 3rd cup of coffee (always with half and half) only. I think he may be putting a little sugar in his first 2 cups now. I hope.
     
  17. OP
    Birdie

    Birdie Member

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    Narouz,
    When I did my conversion from Armour to Cynoplus, I did it by the strict math. I added up the T3 in each and the T4 in each. Then, I paid more attention to the T3... I think. Not sure on the last part.
    Somewhere RP mentioned a much easier conversion. If I remember or find it, I'll let you know. We should have this info available for everyone.
     
  18. OP
    Birdie

    Birdie Member

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    My husband's rT3 came back high this year. So, I put rT3 into the search engine and ended up here.
    Was really enjoying the great Peat comment until I saw that I had posted it myself back in 2012. :)

    But this quote by GregW is very helpful in case we run into this problem with T4.

    Armour, as you know has been sold again. Some report it's changed again. The formula just before this one worked for many, and the new one which has trippled in price, doesn't work for them.

    Anyway, since the price went up so much, the pharmacist recommended another glandular, Nature-throid, at about 1/4 the price of Armour.
    My husband has just started this and feels good.

    Last summer, when we found Armour was working,btw it was old Armour, we cut back on the CynoPlus and slowly cut out the T3 only Cynomel.
    By the end of summer, we were using Armour only. I'm thinking about re-introducing Cynomel for the high rT3.

    Does anybody know what Ray says on the rT3/Free T3 ratio that Janie talks about on Stop the Thyroid Madness?
    I ask because his ratio is good. Still, some of the info on STTM goes against Ray's conclusions from his analysis of studies.
     
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