Productivity At 20 Hrs A Week Vs 40

[bumtrash]

It's important to keep people exhausted and lacking in time and energy for extra education.

The workers generate the wealth for the investors and owners to live on.

If you want a shorter working week with legally guaranteed holiday and fair rights you firstly need to join a union and secondly need to make damn sure bernie sanders gets to stand for president so that union membership becomes a priority.

Your entire country have been poisoned against the idea of having socialist elements in the economy but all it really means is considering the human side.

All it means is that value to society is not solely seen in profit accumulation and arbitrary GDP growth. It actually allows consideration of human wellbeing and looks at the long term impacts on society of less stressed and sick humans. On access to lifelong education. The cost to public investment easily pays itself off because THAT is what creates productive and healthy workers.

The billionaire media barons demonise because they rely on your work to sustain their lavish lifestyles.



You're a socialist my friend (it's the natural human state). There are very powerful vested interests in making people think otherwise.

I think you pretty much nailed it.

 

[Inspired]

So today I took a half sick day since I felt bad this morning. I've noticed that today I've been more productive on 3-4 hrs working than I normally am at 8 hrs.

So why do workplaces insist on 40 hr+ workweeks? I feel like if I could only work 20 hrs a week I would be at my peak performance. We see that this is certainly typically the peak hours people prefer to work in retirement also. How is it that studies claim that 40 hr workweeks are ideal? Most Americans are working 40 (or more) and have chronic diseases, horrible sleep, and just overall have crappy productivity.

Let's also not forget that a 40 hr workweek is actually 60+ when you factor in commute times, times spent preparing for work, and in some cases being on call even when home etc.

What if you were a warlord super chief of your own village, with a harem of women that you need to service, and all the supplies and weapons etc that you could ever need? You'd be wishing for extra hours just so you could live more for the experience.

Fact is, modern life in the western world is unsatisfying.

 

[Cirion]

Fact is, modern life in the western world is unsatisfying.

Lol, well you won't get any arguments from me here. Life now is all about doing your time in the office, then maybe swiping on tinder for 2 hrs, watching TV, maybe going to an occasional sports game, and sometimes going out for a date, none of the above being very interesting most of the time.

 

[Dobbler]

I think the optimal choice would be being your own boss and having a business and working short hours, but to get to that point requires a ton of energy, time, money and skill, and i don't have any of those

 

[Cirion]

I think the optimal choice would be being your own boss and having a business and working short hours, but to get to that point requires a ton of energy, time, money and skill, and i don't have any of those

Haha yeah I know the feeling. Making your own real estate empire (like Robert Kiyosaki did) would absolutely be an incredible source of money, even better than investing in some ways, and I was briefly looking into it... then remembered that I barely have enough energy to get up and go to work... Let alone look at houses and deal with tenants on the side lol. Once you build the empire though, you can start to outsource most the work to other people.

 

[Inspired]

Have you ever tried stimulants?

 

[sunraiser]

Haha yeah I know the feeling. Making your own real estate empire (like Robert Kiyosaki did) would absolutely be an incredible source of money, even better than investing in some ways, and I was briefly looking into it... then remembered that I barely have enough energy to get up and go to work... Let alone look at houses and deal with tenants on the side lol. Once you build the empire though, you can start to outsource most the work to other people.

I really think there's something to be said for work you're passionate about. You look at those guys that exist for nothing but wealth accumulation and you can often see their poor health but also a desperate unhappiness.

Like hamster said earlier, long work weeks, when you enjoy it, are no longer work - it's just socialising and problem solving with people or in an environment you enjoy.

Having energy issues gets in the way of being able to enjoy anything and it can really skew one's perspective.

Work-life balance is important obviously, and that's why we need unions for strong labour laws in those that find meaning outside work.

People should only have to work long hours if they truly enjoy doing so - but in those cases I don't think they're working, they're just living.

 

[Cirion]

Having energy issues gets in the way of being able to enjoy anything and it can really skew one's perspective.

I do definitely agree with this. Like I said earlier, when I briefly got out of my metabolic hell a couple years back, an interesting thing happened -- All of a sudden I actually enjoyed my work, I was super productive, got s*** done etc. My attraction to the opposite gender went thru the roof, my workouts exploded (gained 50% to my bench press in one month). It was a great time, if short lived (only lasted a few months until I ended up in my bad relationship and then it went down the toilet again). Now THAT's life worth living though, and my goal is to get to that level again of metabolic health.

 

[lampofred]

I'm starting to think good metabolic health for adults = calm, alert, satisfied with a mild euphoric tinge, as opposed to hyper productive or hyper sexual in a mildly manic way.

And you know you have found a great job when it is both productive and relatively effortless because you like the work/environment so much that it doesn't feel like work.

 

[sunraiser]

I do definitely agree with this. Like I said earlier, when I briefly got out of my metabolic hell a couple years back, an interesting thing happened -- All of a sudden I actually enjoyed my work, I was super productive, got s*** done etc. My attraction to the opposite gender went thru the roof, my workouts exploded (gained 50% to my bench press in one month). It was a great time, if short lived (only lasted a few months until I ended up in my bad relationship and then it went down the toilet again). Now THAT's life worth living though, and my goal is to get to that level again of metabolic health.

Yeah. It's just so important to not let your inability to feel in your current state impact your overall world view too much.

It'll pass. We'll all get there :)

 

[sunraiser]

I'm starting to think good metabolic health for adults = calm, alert, satisfied with a mild euphoric tinge, as opposed to hyper productive or hyper sexual in a mildly manic way.

And you know you have found a great job when it is both productive and relatively effortless because you like the work/environment so much that it doesn't feel like work.

From Seneca (letters from a stoic)

"Similarly, people who never relax, and people who are invariably in a relaxed state merit your disaproval - the former as much as the latter. For delight in bustling about is not industry - it is only the restless energy of a hunted mind. And the state of mind that looks on all activity as tiresome is not true repose, but a spineless interia.

...

A balanced combination of the two attitudes is what we want; the active man should be able to take things easily, while the man who is inclined towards repose should be capable of taking action. Ask nature: she will tell you that she made both day and night."

Even the Romans understood it - though this view is archaic as it puts it down to attitude instead of physiological health. It's heartbreaking that many still hold such archaic views - lots of people work themselves into sickness that's rooted in a sense of shame, as opposed to resting when they need to.

 

[Cirion]

Hyper productivity at the expense of personal health seems to be something the older generations were more accepting of. I have a coworker I work with that's near retirement age and his health is very, very bad, yet he continues to work work work go go go all the time. We have some deadlines for some things at work and he is panicking clearly on stress hormones and telling me "hurry up hurry up" Luckily, I've gotten to the point I can almost "Ignore" stress, since I am very aware of how damaging stress is and I refuse to play along with it, and his attempts to trigger my stress hormones by telling me to "hurry up" isn't working lol. I'm going at my own pace, and he doesn't like it then tough, that's how I view it, there's more to life than living on stress hormones. Once you're aware of how stressed 99% of people are you realize that they often try to push that stress onto you, sometimes without even being aware they're doing it (like my coworker).

 

[Lee Simeon]

@Cirion have you read Utopia for Realists by Rutger Bregman? No matter what political stance you are, it does have some ambitious and interesting ideas. I think you would like it!

 

[tankasnowgod]

capitalism. it’s 40 hours because competition is high and there’s people who are willing to do it. the longer companies can get workers to work, the more output they can create. if no one was willing to work 40 hours, then it wouldn’t be 40, but as capitalism advances, competition within the working class grows also, which is why most people are working more then 40 hours through overtime, unofficially, or doing work related stuff after work

Weird to put the reasoning to "capitalism," which would imply that it is a negotiation strictly between two private parties, the employer, and employee. Not the case at all. A big reason that the work week is defined at 40 hours is due to OSHA and the Fair Labor and Standards Act.

Employee Hours & Overtime Labor Laws | OSHA Education Center

 

[tankasnowgod]

I wouldn't say I'm a socialist and I definitely don't want someone like Bernie for president. I mean don't get me wrong, it'd be nice to push for 20 hr labor laws, but the problem is we can't afford it. I don't necessarily like the way things are, but we already are over 20$ trillion in debt, there is no way to push for things like this. There's utopia, then there's reality. But yeah, 9-5 jobs for life is not my kind of life. I've definitely been making it my priority to start building up my investments to escape the shackles of corporate life. It's more realistic to work the current system, than to try to elect someone into office who will change it, especially when you consider we have bigger problems to deal with (Like $20 trillion in debt).

Just because the United States (A Federal Corporation, according to 28 USC 3002 15 A) is $20 Trillion in Debt to the Queen of England or whoever, and even assuming that number is accurate, and not low balled, that doesn't really have any impact on the number of hours you work. The US has been bankrupt since 1933, at least, which is the entire time that the FLSA has been active. The debt continues to grow every year, and will never be paid off. It will either simply keep accumulating, or one day, there will be a default. But as long the US keeps borrowing money at interest from the Federal Reserve (a private bank, not part of the government), there is no way it even can be paid off.

 

[Cirion]

Just because the United States (A Federal Corporation, according to 28 USC 3002 15 A) is $20 Trillion in Debt to the Queen of England or whoever, and even assuming that number is accurate, and not low balled, that doesn't really have any impact on the number of hours you work. The US has been bankrupt since 1933, at least, which is the entire time that the FLSA has been active. The debt continues to grow every year, and will never be paid off. It will either simply keep accumulating, or one day, there will be a default. But as long the US keeps borrowing money at interest from the Federal Reserve (a private bank, not part of the government), there is no way it even can be paid off.

Why do you say the US has been bankrupt since 1933? Wasn't the debt virtually zero like in the 70s or 80s or something? The rapid acceleration of debt is a fairly recent thing, as far as I know, especially among the last half dozen or so election cycles. It's basically quadrupled in just a decade or two.

You're probably right about the debt though. People (both citizens and government employees) have forgotten what fiscal responsibility looks like. And political candidates get more and more radical every election cycle with at least one of the candidates promoting yet even more spending.

 

[tankasnowgod]

Why do you say the US has been bankrupt since 1933?

Because that's what Senator James Traficant, Jr said on the floor of congress-



https://famguardian.org/subjects/LawAndGovt/LegalEthics/Corruption/USGovtBankrupt.htm

 

[Peater Piper]

I work three days a week while taking college courses on my off days. I don't think I'd be much more productive working five 8-hour days compared to the three I work now. I work my butt off while I'm there, because I'm essentially doing a full time job, but if I was working five days I'd have to slow my pace or I'd burn out. By the end of the day my brain is fried. The people around me working five days usually spend a lot more time socializing. It's kind of understandable, they have to go in the next day and do it all over again (despite the fact that I'm essentially doing the same amount of work per week as they are, but it's salary, so hours "worked" matter more than productivity). A three or four day work week would be better imo, I doubt productivity would drop, and people would have more time to live their lives, but good luck convincing most companies that their employees could accomplish just as much in a 24-hour work week as they would in a 40-hour work week.

It ultimately comes down to finding something you love where the hours aren't just a way to make money, but are fulfilling and make the loss of free time easier to accept. Or being self-employed or so damn talented at an in-demand skill that you can make your own rules. The latter can be extremely difficult once you're already an older adult without those skills and the need to continue working while developing them. There's only so many hours in the day and none of us have unlimited energy.

 

[tankasnowgod]

I work three days a week while taking college courses on my off days. I don't think I'd be much more productive working five 8-hour days compared to the three I work now. I work my butt off while I'm there, because I'm essentially doing a full time job, but if I was working five days I'd have to slow my pace or I'd burn out. By the end of the day my brain is fried. The people around me working five days usually spend a lot more time socializing. It's kind of understandable, they have to go in the next day and do it all over again (despite the fact that I'm essentially doing the same amount of work per week as they are, but it's salary, so hours "worked" matter more than productivity). A three or four day work week would be better imo, I doubt productivity would drop, and people would have more time to live their lives, but good luck convincing most companies that their employees could accomplish just as much in a 24-hour work week as they would in a 40-hour work week.

It ultimately comes down to finding something you love where the hours aren't just a way to make money, but are fulfilling and make the loss of free time easier to accept. Or being self-employed or so damn talented at an in-demand skill that you can make your own rules. The latter can be extremely difficult once you're already an older adult without those skills and the need to continue working while developing them. There's only so many hours in the day and none of us have unlimited energy.

No doubt there are jobs that you can be just as, or more, productive working shorter hours and/or fewer days. A lot of that is from the 80/20 rule. Some service jobs do require a presence for certain hours. Other jobs, it's more something that needs to be done, and 40 hours or five days a week tends to be more of a default that what is actually the most productive.

 

[gaze]

Weird to put the reasoning to "capitalism," which would imply that it is a negotiation strictly between two private parties, the employer, and employee. Not the case at all. A big reason that the work week is defined at 40 hours is due to OSHA and the Fair Labor and Standards Act.

Employee Hours & Overtime Labor Laws | OSHA Education Center

I was referring to why hours are so long and why they keep increasing, not why it’s 40 hours specifically.