Vitamin B1 + Early Stage Kidney Disease

[kay_rae]

First time post, so bear with me. A friend of mine introduced me to this forum and have used it to do some research. Have found the community super helpful.

Looking for thoughts, advice, ideas and feedback.

Situation Summary:
I've lived with Type 1 diabetes for nearly 24 years, diagnosed at the age of 7. While the first 15 or so years resulted in poor control (higher A1cs), I am happy to report the last 5+ years have improved greatly, with my best control ever over the last year with A1Cs down to 6.5%. Working to bring to 6%, but feeling confident that it won't be a problem.

Fast forward to Fall 2019, my friend (who is way better at identifying health concerns based on lab results and other symptoms), noticed that my eGFR (measuring overall kidney function) was lower than it should be (around the 60-70 range). Diabetes is known to have complications such as kidney disease and certainly think this has played a role, but I also contribute my decline in kidney function to other factors such as intense work stress, high EMF environment and diet. I started taking some measures (see timeline below), but became really concerned in November 2019 and made greater changes when my eGFR dropped low enough to officially be classified as early-stage chronic kidney disease. The last 8 months has consisted of changes and experimentation to see what can help bring my eGFR back to the 90+ range. I've had some success, but still have a ways to go.

Question:
Has anyone heard about success with reversing kidney disease with high doses of thiamine - Vitamin B1? I found these studies (listed below) and decided to give it a try.

• Vitamin B1 Could Reverse Early-stage Kidney Disease In Diabetes Patients.
  
• Vitamin B1 could reverse early-stage kidney disease in diabetes patients

I am relatively new to the supplement world and extremely new to researching and trying these things on my own. After doing some additional research on B1 I determined there wasn't too much risk involved, which is why I tried it. I'm only one-month in, so look forward to seeing my lab results over the next 2-3 months.

I am also open to other ideas on improving eGFR and kidney function. Please ask any clarifying questions you have as well, I know there is a lot more to this than what I have shared. Happy to share more. Some items I've heard about, but have not done enough research on or tried include:

• Salvia miltiorrhiza (Red Sage) Article
• Chitosan supplement
  
• Minocycline + Aspirine - Forum Discussion

Feel free to give feedback/advice on these items as well.

Thanks everyone for your help! Hope to share some success stories down the road.

Kidney Health Timeline: (Approximate)

• 
  
• February 2016:
  • eGFR = 97
• April 2016:
  • eGFR = 90
• April 2017:
  • No lab results recorded of eGFR
  • Started using medical device that gave me better blood glucose control, but later found to omit high EMF and was next to my waist section (near kidneys) 24/7
• November 2017:
  • eGFR = 75
  • Doctor prescribed 10mg of Lisinopril daily to protect kidneys
• July 2018:
  • Medication switch due to reactions to Lisinopril: Doctor prescribed 25mg of Losartan Potassium daily to protect kidneys

• August 2019:
  • eGFR = 63
  • First changes to attempt to increase GFR:
    • Minor diet changes (less dairy / red meat)
    • Taurine: 1000 mg orally 1x per day

• November /December 2019:
  • Major emotional stress

• December 2019:
  • eGFR = 55 (official Early-Stage CKD)
  • Increase Taurine: 1000 mg orally 2x per day
  • Additional diet changes following kidney-friendly diet recommendations, daily cranberry juice

• January 2020:
  • Changed medical device to reduce EMF levels, lower EMF signals from new device and able to keep further away from body
  • Lumbrokinase: 20 mg orally 1x per day
  • PurePremium Kidney Support supplement 1 capsule orally 1x per day
  • Nature's Way Kidney & Bladder Traditional Herbs 2 capsules orally 1x per day

• February 2020:
  • eGFR = 69 & 67

• March/April 2020:
  • Increased emotional & physical stress

• May 2020:
  • eGFR = 55 (contributing factors of high stress in March & April)
  • Add consistent daily hikes/walks 2x per day (1-1.5 hrs each, mild incline)
  • Increase water intake to 3+ Liters per day (untracked before, but likely less than 2 Liters per day)
  • Add quarterly visits to alternative-medicine chiropractor treatments to increase blood flow to body, focus on Kidney - start daily stretches/exercises to increase blood flow to kidneys

• June 2020:
  • eGFR = 66
  • Started once daily dose of oral Vitamin B1 (500 mg)
  • Nature's Way Garlic Bulb supplement 580mg orally 1x per day

Goal: eGFR =90+
Current Diet:

• Frequently Eat (5-7 days per week)
  • 4oz. organic chicken breast, baked
  • Cauliflower rice
  • Fresh fruit (apples, strawberries, blueberries, bananas, pears)
  • Fresh Vegetables (cabbage, shallots, brussel sprouts)
    
  • Salad
• Moderately Eat (3-4 days per week)
  • Fresh Vegetables (red peppers, cauliflower, tomatoes, carrots)
  • Egg whites
• Occasionally Eat (1-2 days per week)
  • Polish Sausage
  • Olive Oil Potato Chips
  • Coconut Cookie Thins
  • Gluten Free Bread
• Rarely Eat (Less than 5 times per month)
  • Red Meat (burgers, steak, beef)
  • Eggs w/ yolk
  • Cheese / dairy
  • Chipotle Burrito Bowl (chicken)

 

[gaze]

Hey welcome to the forum. Is there any primary reason you dont eat much dairy? dietary calcium, along with adequte vitamin D is one of the most protective substances for the kidneys

 

[kay_rae]

Hey welcome to the forum. Is there any primary reason you dont eat much dairy? dietary calcium, along with adequte vitamin D is one of the most protective substances for the kidneys

Thanks for the welcome! Excited to learn and engage with the community here.

The main reason I cut back on dairy was because of all the articles I read instructing to limit dairy. I do still eat dairy occasionally, but went from a diet heavy in cheese & meat (lower carb to reduce blood sugar spikes with diabetes) to limiting those items in hopes of supporting the kidneys. I saw multiple different articles stating to limit dairy similar to this one:

• 17 Foods to Avoid If You Have Kidney Disease

Are there certain dairy products that may be more helpful vs. harmful to kidney health? Should I only be limiting dairy if my kidneys continue to decline in function?

 

[charlie]

Please keep us updated on your progress.

This also might be of interest: Taurine Improves Kidney Function (eGFR, Edema, Hyperuricemia)

 

[Tarmander]

I think the B1 has a good chance of working. Thanks for sharing your results!

 

[kay_rae]

Please keep us updated on your progress.

This also might be of interest: Taurine Improves Kidney Function (eGFR, Edema, Hyperuricemia)

Thanks Charlie! I will certainly post updates as we go. My doctor is allowing me monthly lab tests, so I hope to see some upward movement in eGFR as we go.

And my friend recommended the Taurine earlier on in this process and have been taking ever since. I am only up to 2,000 mg per day, so based on that article you shared I may gradually try increasing to 5g over the next few months and see if that makes a change as well. May wait until my 3 months with B1 have been completed so I can see those results first and know which one is making a difference, if any.

Thanks for sharing!

 

[kay_rae]

I think the B1 has a good chance of working. Thanks for sharing your results!

Thanks Tarmander! I am hoping so, too. Bummed they haven't officially released any follow-up studies since the original, but the first study looked promising. Fingers crossed!

 

[charlie]

Thanks Charlie! I will certainly post updates as we go. My doctor is allowing me monthly lab tests, so I hope to see some upward movement in eGFR as we go.

And my friend recommended the Taurine earlier on in this process and have been taking ever since. I am only up to 2,000 mg per day, so based on that article you shared I may gradually try increasing to 5g over the next few months and see if that makes a change as well. May wait until my 3 months with B1 have been completed so I can see those results first and know which one is making a difference, if any.

Thanks for sharing!

You have probably already seen the tag below, niacinamide also looks promising:

kidney disease | Ray Peat Forum

 

[Jessie]

I think the B1 can be helpful, it reduces lactate which is no friend for kidney health. The calcium to phosphate balance is very important for kidney health, so I would recommend dairy free alternatives to calcium. Boil a bunch of kale or collards and drink the broth they made while cooking. Also taking 1-2 grams of pulverized eggshell or oyster shell is a good way to increase calcium. Vitamin D plays a very important role in activating calcium and suppressing the PTH, so it's important as well.

There's no definitive evidence of how much vitamin D is truly optimal, but it should probably be somewhere between 5,000-10,000iu for most people. In some people vitamin D absorption and utilization is very poor, and in certain cases people have actually taken upwards of 40,000-50,000iu for several months at a time and noticed only a slight increase in serum D levels. But as a baseline, I would suggest taking 10,000iu and have your D levels measured, from there you can adjust accordingly up or down.

Also, maybe you should look at restricting meat consumption. Maybe just eating 1-2 eggs a day, liver 1-2 a week, and occasional gelatinous cuts of meats. Too much protein can be hard on the kidneys when they're in stress. You can get quality kidney-friendly protein from Peat's potato scramble. Juicing raw potatoes and cooking the juice until a scramble forms. The keto-acids (which basically are amino acids without the ammonia ring) bind with ammonia and create a lot of protein. So essentially you end up getting more protein and less ammonia. Also foods rich in tannins, like grapes and berries are really good for the kidneys.

 

[kay_rae]

I think the B1 can be helpful, it reduces lactate which is no friend for kidney health. The calcium to phosphate balance is very important for kidney health, so I would recommend dairy free alternatives to calcium. Boil a bunch of kale or collards and drink the broth they made while cooking. Also taking 1-2 grams of pulverized eggshell or oyster shell is a good way to increase calcium. Vitamin D plays a very important role in activating calcium and suppressing the PTH, so it's important as well.

There's no definitive evidence of how much vitamin D is truly optimal, but it should probably be somewhere between 5,000-10,000iu for most people. In some people vitamin D absorption and utilization is very poor, and in certain cases people have actually taken upwards of 40,000-50,000iu for several months at a time and noticed only a slight increase in serum D levels. But as a baseline, I would suggest taking 10,000iu and have your D levels measured, from there you can adjust accordingly up or down.

Also, maybe you should look at restricting meat consumption. Maybe just eating 1-2 eggs a day, liver 1-2 a week, and occasional gelatinous cuts of meats. Too much protein can be hard on the kidneys when they're in stress. You can get quality kidney-friendly protein from Peat's potato scramble. Juicing raw potatoes and cooking the juice until a scramble forms. The keto-acids (which basically are amino acids without the ammonia ring) bind with ammonia and create a lot of protein. So essentially you end up getting more protein and less ammonia. Also foods rich in tannins, like grapes and berries are really good for the kidneys.

Thanks Jessie! I will certainly look into calcium alternatives & Vitamin D to ensure I am getting what I need. I've been wanting to get tests done to see where all of my nutrient levels are, but haven't done so yet. May get around to doing that soon so I can better gage where I am at.

And I have certainly restricted a lot of my meat consumption over the last 8 months or so. Red meat is a rare occurence now, saving if for special gatherings or outings. I've also almost completely cut back on whole eggs (with yolk) and only use egg whites a few times each week. I do still eat chicken 5-7 times per week and hope not to cut that out any more if I don't have to. I've been using kidney-friendly diet suggestions as much as possible on both things to eat, as well as to avoid. My ability to go "cold-turkey" has not been successful in the past, so a gradual change is what I am going for unless there is a dire need to change immediately. Did you see my "current diet" layout in my original post. This is a general idea of common things I eat and how often. There are certainly other things I'm eating in addition to that list, but it's just here and there...no pattern. Have been eating lots of blueberries and grapes, as well as strawberries.

Appreciate your insight and let me know if you have any other thoughts.

 

[charlie]

Thanks Jessie! I will certainly look into calcium alternatives & Vitamin D to ensure I am getting what I need. I've been wanting to get tests done to see where all of my nutrient levels are, but haven't done so yet. May get around to doing that soon so I can better gage where I am at.

And I have certainly restricted a lot of my meat consumption over the last 8 months or so. Red meat is a rare occurence now, saving if for special gatherings or outings. I've also almost completely cut back on whole eggs (with yolk) and only use egg whites a few times each week. I do still eat chicken 5-7 times per week and hope not to cut that out any more if I don't have to. I've been using kidney-friendly diet suggestions as much as possible on both things to eat, as well as to avoid. My ability to go "cold-turkey" has not been successful in the past, so a gradual change is what I am going for unless there is a dire need to change immediately. Did you see my "current diet" layout in my original post. This is a general idea of common things I eat and how often. There are certainly other things I'm eating in addition to that list, but it's just here and there...no pattern. Have been eating lots of blueberries and grapes, as well as strawberries.

Appreciate your insight and let me know if you have any other thoughts.

Definitely look into calcium/phosphate ratio. It's very important.

 

[kay_rae]

You have probably already seen the tag below, niacinamide also looks promising:

kidney disease | Ray Peat Forum

I haven't seen all of those, so thanks for sharing! I need to do more research on the differences of treatment of Chronic Kidney Disease (CKD) vs. Acute Kidney Injury (AKI). Although I haven't had any official diagnosis of one versus the other, I am fairly certain, based on circumstances, that it would be CKD that I am up against. Not sure if treating them is similar or different. Lots to look in to. Thanks!

 

[kay_rae]

Definitely look into calcium/phosphate ratio. It's very important.

This was from my last blood test in June. Is this what I should be looking at or are there other tests? (Sorry I am so new to this. Guidance is so appreciated!)

 

[yerrag]

What maintenance drugs have you taken? What maintenance drugs are you taking now?

What is your wbc, neutrophils, monocytes, eosinophils, and rbc, hgb, and hct, and rdw in your CBC?

What I'd your serum albumin and creatinine?

What is the albumin/creatinine ratio in your urine?

Also, how is your liver health? Do you have a serum liver panel?

 

[kay_rae]

What maintenance drugs have you taken? What maintenance drugs are you taking now?

What is your wbc, neutrophils, monocytes, eosinophils, and rbc, hgb, and hct, and rdw in your CBC?

What I'd your serum albumin and creatinine?

What is the albumin/creatinine ratio in your urine?

Also, how is your liver health? Do you have a serum liver panel?

Hello Yerrag.

Maintenance drugs:

• Fiasp (insulin) for type 1 diabetes - approximately 40-50 units per day
• Losartan for kidney protection - 25mg per day
• Tirosint for thyroid - 112.5 mcg per day

CBC: Haven't had those items tested.
Serum:

• Albumin - 3.8
• Creatinine - 1.11

Urine:

• Albumin/Creatinine Ratio: 1033 (has been elevated for years - hoping the B1 reduces this number)

Liver health is great - I've had others check those numbers and all good things. Lab results show all in range and nothing concerning from those who have double checked.

 

[yerrag]

Hello Yerrag.

Maintenance drugs:

• Fiasp (insulin) for type 1 diabetes - approximately 40-50 units per day
• Losartan for kidney protection - 25mg per day
• Tirosint for thyroid - 112.5 mcg per day

CBC: Haven't had those items tested.
Serum:

• Albumin - 3.8
• Creatinine - 1.11

Urine:

• Albumin/Creatinine Ratio: 1033 (has been elevated for years - hoping the B1 reduces this number)

Liver health is great - I've had others check those numbers and all good things. Lab results show all in range and nothing concerning from those who have double checked.

Thanks.

Do you have liver values as well, the range used by standard of care, ie doctors, are very forgiving. It helps to check using tighter ranges. If the liver isn't doing a good job of detox, the kidneys bear the additional burden. If the kidneys are sick, the skin takes an additional burden of trying to remove toxins from the body.

Conventional doctors don't see the body as interconnected.

 

[kay_rae]

Thanks.

Do you have liver values as well, the range used by standard of care, ie doctors, are very forgiving. It helps to check using tighter ranges. If the liver isn't doing a good job of detox, the kidneys bear the additional burden. If the kidneys are sick, the skin takes an additional burden of trying to remove toxins from the body.

Conventional doctors don't see the body as interconnected.

Certainly. This is what shows up under my liver section:

• ALT: 19
• Albumin: 3.8
• Albumin / Globulin Ratio: 1.3
  
• ALP: 74
  
• AST: 23
• Bilirubin: 0.2
• Bilirubin Direct: <0.2
• Globulin: 2.9
• Total Protein (Blood): 6.7

 

[S-VV]

Some things to keep in mind:
-is your serum creatinine elevated?
-whats your blood pressure?
-do you have proteinuria or albuminuria?(protein or albumin in urine)
-whats your urine pH?
-have you had a kidney ultrasound or biopsy?

 

[yerrag]

Hello Yerrag.

Maintenance drugs:

• Fiasp (insulin) for type 1 diabetes - approximately 40-50 units per day
• Losartan for kidney protection - 25mg per day
• Tirosint for thyroid - 112.5 mcg per day

CBC: Haven't had those items tested.
Serum:

• Albumin - 3.8
• Creatinine - 1.11

Urine:

• Albumin/Creatinine Ratio: 1033 (has been elevated for years - hoping the B1 reduces this number)

Liver health is great - I've had others check those numbers and all good things. Lab results show all in range and nothing concerning from those who have double checked.

Certainly. This is what shows up under my liver section:

• ALT: 19
• Albumin: 3.8
• Albumin / Globulin Ratio: 1.3
  
• ALP: 74
  
• AST: 23
• Bilirubin: 0.2
• Bilirubin Direct: <0.2
• Globulin: 2.9
• Total Protein (Blood): 6.7

Kay_rae, we can certainly see why your serum albumin is low at 3.8 (optimal 4 -5), as your high albumin/creatinine ratio shows a lot of albumin being excreted through urine,

However, I'm of the opinion that your true serum albumin may be lower than 3.8, as the basis for that metric is on the assumption of normal blood volume. If normal blood volume is 5 liters, and one has low blood volume of say 4 liters, the serum albumin may actually be 3.8 (4/5) =2.8. That is the reason I wanted to get serum CBC data from you, as we can look at the RBC, Hgb, and Hct values to determine if you have low blood volume.

Low serum albumin is likely to lead to low blood volume, because albumin attracts sodium in a complex, and this keeps sodium retained in blood. More sodium increases the osmolarity of plasma, and this attracts more water into plasma, thus increasing the volume of blood.

The CBC also gives an idea, thru the wbc and its differential count of the different kinds of white blood cells (neutrophils, lymphocytes, monocytes, eosinophils, basophils) - of the degree of low-level infection in your internal system (excluding the gut). This also has a bearing on your kidney health, as you may be focused on your diabetic condition as a cause.

Your serum creatinine at 1.11 is just above optimal (0.8-1,1), and so you don't seem to be deep into chronic kidney disease, and as you said, you're in stage 1. However, is the ACR (albumin creatinine ratio ) of 1066 correct? What is the value of your urine albumin, and your urine creatinine? Just to be sure that's not a typo.

As far as your eGFR goes, were all the eGFR computed using the same formula. Were those values taken by the same lab? There are many eGFR formulas, and they're not consistently used. I've maintained my serum creatinine at 1.1 since 2002 (I have CKD 1 and working on it as well) yet my eGFR keeps going down over the years, simply because eGFR formula use both age and serum creatinine to estimate eGFR. Personally, I think the formulas are hokey. I'd rather use the 24hr urine collection method to determine the creatinine clearance than rely on eGFR estimates that are used merely for convenience than anything else.

Just like albumin, creatinine values are also dependent on blood volume. If your blood volume is low, creatinine also is going to appear higher. If suddenly your blood volume should turn from being 80% of normal to normal, your creatinine would go down by 20%. So we have to keep this in mind as we can't be too mechanistic and numbers driven. If you see your creatinine or eGFR fluctuate, it may just be your blood volume fluctuating. We just have to see things in the right perspective. I'm pretty sure most of our doctors act like technicians and there's no use arguing with them as they just don't get it.

As far as thiamine goes, I believe that thiamine helps with kidney disease because thiamine is able to convert lactate back to glucose via the Cori cycle. In kidney disease, a lot of times blood flow is restricted in the capillaries that feed the kidney's nephrons and tubules. Because oxygen supply is limited, lactate is produced because of anaerobic glyolysis. So thiamine can be helpful, but it's not really going to cure your kidney. It is just like a maintenance drug.

Do you have high blood pressure? Are you taking Losartan to lower blood pressure? Again, just my opinion, but I don't think it's true blood pressure lowering medication protects the kidneys. If the kidneys's capillaries aren't able to deliver oxygen and nutrients to the kidney with normal blood pressure, the body will know to increase the blood pressure to keep the kidneys nourished and protected, as it knows higher blood pressure will enable blood to feed the organ and keep the nephrons alive. I've had high blood pressure for 18 years. During this time, my serum creatinine has stayed the same at 1.1 My kidney has not deteriorated. I only have CKD 1 barely, and only a small amount of albumin gets excreted by urine and it's classified as microalbuminuria. My blood pressure is very high and reaches 200/140. Yet I don't have any sign of poor health. I don't have any headache ever, and I'm not even high risk for COVID. I haven't had a fever nor flu for the past 20 years (yet I'm not hypothyroid), and I don't have any allergies. The last allergic rhinitis I had was 3 years ago.

I think that taking blood pressure medication only causes the kidney to fail, only because the nephrons are going to die from lacking blood supply, simply because normal blood pressure isn't getting the job of nourishing the nephrons done. If you're excreting a lot of albumin, could it be because you're interfering with the body, on advice of your doctor? Think back to when you started taking bp medication, and if you have a good record system, you can trace back to see if your kidneys were better then.

I have more to say but I hope I gave you enough food for thought.

Lastly, could you tell me what Tirosint is and why you are taking that?

 

[kay_rae]

Do you have high blood pressure? Are you taking Losartan to lower blood pressure? Again, just my opinion, but I don't think it's true blood pressure lowering medication protects the kidneys. If the kidneys's capillaries aren't able to deliver oxygen and nutrients to the kidney with normal blood pressure, the body will know to increase the blood pressure to keep the kidneys nourished and protected, as it knows higher blood pressure will enable blood to feed the organ and keep the nephrons alive. I've had high blood pressure for 18 years. During this time, my serum creatinine has stayed the same at 1.1 My kidney has not deteriorated. I only have CKD 1 barely, and only a small amount of albumin gets excreted by urine and it's classified as microalbuminuria. My blood pressure is very high and reaches 200/140. Yet I don't have any sign of poor health. I don't have any headache ever, and I'm not even high risk for COVID. I haven't had a fever nor flu for the past 20 years (yet I'm not hypothyroid), and I don't have any allergies. The last allergic rhinitis I had was 3 years ago.

I think that taking blood pressure medication only causes the kidney to fail, only because the nephrons are going to die from lacking blood supply, simply because normal blood pressure isn't getting the job of nourishing the nephrons done. If you're excreting a lot of albumin, could it be because you're interfering with the body, on advice of your doctor? Think back to when you started taking bp medication, and if you have a good record system, you can trace back to see if your kidneys were better then.

Wow! Just did some more digging into when I started taking Lisiniprol/Losartan and I was a little off on my original timeline I had above. I actually was first prescribed Lisinopril (5mg) starting February 2016, increased to 10mg April 2016, then switched to Losartan 25mg July 2018 due to reactions to the Lisinopril. The scary part is it lines up almost perfectly with my eGFR decline.

• February 2016 | First recorded eGFR 97 | First time starting Lisinopril 5mg
• April 2016 | eGFR 90 | Linisopril increased to 10mg
• November 2017 | eGFR 75 | Continue 10mg Lisinopril
• July 2018 | Switch to 25mg Losartan due to reactions to Lisinopril
• August 2019 | eGFR 63
• 2019/2020 | eGFR continue to decline/fluctuate while remaining on 25mg of Losartan

I am going to stop taking it immediately, that is scary and frustrating. The medication they put me on that is suppose to protect my kidneys may actually be the one that hurt them? I never have had blood pressure issues, it was prescribed to protect my kidneys since I had high Albumin/Creatinine Ratio (>700 since Feb 2016, no record before). I actually had blood pressure on the lower end of in range so they were always worried the medication would make it drop lower. Blood pressure has remained in range at all times and was 116/78 today.

Thanks for sharing about that. I've heard from people before that it doesn't always help, but I didn't know it could cause harm. I grew up with the "doctor knows best" mentality and have only recently started questioning their methods thanks to my friends help and encouragement.