Vitamin B1 + Early Stage Kidney Disease

[kay_rae]

I have been in the B1 trenches for quite a while. And from my observations and hundreds of hours in the B1 groups, more is not always better. If I am finding good results with a certain dosage, I tend to hold er steady, because, good results were being found. Slow and steady wins this race.

Thanks Charlie. Are there any concerns with trying the higher dose for 1-2 months, seeing if there is an improvement, and if not, going back to the original dose? I don't plan on increasing any further than the 1000mg daily even with good results, but would like to see if there is any difference.

May I ask what dosage you found that works for you? Or others that you've seen?

 

[kay_rae]

New Lab Results from 11/11/2020:

Blood Health / Anemia -

• Background:
  • 8/3/2020: HGB: 10.9 | HCT: 32.8
  • 8/19/2020: HGB: 10.6 | HCT: 34.6 | MCH: 26.5 | MCHC: 30.6 | Iron: 39 | % Sat: 12
    • Started B-Complex (2 capsules daily), Started Ancestral Beef Spleen (6 capsules daily), Stated Prenatal Multivitamin w/ Iron (1 capsule daily)
  • 10/1/2020: Stopped taking Prenatal Multivitamin when I started getting abscesses possibly due to too much iron intake, abscesses went away within a week
  • 10/7/2020: HGB: 10.8 | HCT: 34.7 | MCH: 27.2 | MCHC: 31.1 | Iron: 44| % Sat: Unknown
    • MCH & MCHC moved to "in range", slight improvement for Iron but still low
• New Results: (full results below)
  • 11/11/2020: HGB: 10.5 | HCT: 33.8 | MCH: 27.2 | MCHC: 31.1 | Iron: 89 | % Sat: 28

I was glad to see decent improvements in Iron & % Saturation levels, as well as MCH & MCHC remaining "in range".

What are my next steps to get HGB & HCT increased, as they are still low and have not shown improvement alongside Iron / % Sat?
Should my HGB & HCT improved alongside the iron levels? What does it mean? Does it take time for those levels to adjust? Not sure where to go next with this. Advice appreciated.

Kidney Health
I saw no change in GFR, serum creatinine or other kidney markers from my previous results (quoted below in October). I was disappointed to see, however that my Urine Albumin/Urine Creatinine Ratio increased again after seeing great improvement in October. I was very hopeful that B1 was going to continue to improve and I would maybe see even lower levels this month, but it shot back up to 543 (previously 330 in October). I did experiment on increasing B1 to 1000 mg per day after my October results and am going to decrease that to the 500 mg again and see if that changes anything for December tests.
What I did find interesting about this month's results, however, is that it was the Urine Creatinine part of the equation that changed, while the Urine Albumin remained the same as last October. Over the last year of testing, the ratio was improving because the Urine Albumin was decreasing and Urine Creatinine remaining the same. Any thoughts on this? Was this due to the increase in B1 to 1000 mg?

New results and I am loving what I'm seeing so far! The B1 seems to be doing exactly what the studies said it would and lowered the Urine Albumin/Urine Creatinine Ratio. There is work to be done yet, but the results so far are giving me hope. They didn't run some of the tests as my doctor requested (iron panel including % Saturation), so I'll have to get those results next month. But for now...

Started B1 Thiamine on 6/25 at 500 mg/day (approximately 100 days use)

• Urine Albumin/Urine Creatinine Ratio Results: (Goal <30)
  • 04/2008 - 14.3
  • 03/2010 - 681
  • 02/2016 - 733
  • 11/2017 - 758
  • 8/2019 - 1231
  • 12/2019 - 580
  • 02/2020 - 753
  • 06/2020 - 1033 (started B1 thiamine after this test)
  • 07/2020 - 824
  • 08/2020 - 662
  • 10/2020 - 330
• Serum Creatinine:
  • 04/2008 - 0.42
  • 03/2010 - 0.57
  • 02/2016 - 0.83
  • 11/2017 - 1.02
  • 8/2019 - 1.16
  • 12/2019 - 1.3
  • 02/2020 - 1.1
  • 06/2020 - 1.11 (started B1 thiamine after this test)
  • 07/2020 - Not tested
  • 08/2020 - 1.25
  • 10/2020 - 1.11

• GFR

• 04/2008 - Not tested
• 03/2010 - Not tested
• 02/2016 - 97
• 11/2017 - 75
• 8/2019 - 63
• 12/2019 - 55
• 02/2020 - 67
• 06/2020 - 66 (started B1 thiamine after this test)
• 07/2020 - Not tested
• 08/2020 - 57
• 10/2020 - 78

Thanks again everyone for your thoughts. I feel like I'm playing a bit of pull and tug with these numbers sometimes, but I guess that's the nature of health sometimes.​

 

[DB_2014]

My eGFR was 62 last December. I’m only 25 and my doctors were very concerned. I started benfotiamine and my eGFR has remained in the 80s in every blood test since. Thiamine works.

 

[kay_rae]

My eGFR was 62 last December. I’m only 25 and my doctors were very concerned. I started benfotiamine and my eGFR has remained in the 80s in every blood test since. Thiamine works.

@DB_2014 What awesome results! Can I ask if you also live with diabetes (type 1 or 2) or is there a different cause to your CKD? I've done a little bit of research on it since you mentioned and it looks great. Other than benfotiamine being fat-soluble (vs. water-soluble), any true differences between taking benfotiamine and Vitamin B1 Thiamine Mononitrate? Any dangers of using benfotiamine? The thing I love about the supplement I am taking now is that dangers are little to none. Thanks for sharing your progress.

 

[yerrag]

Thanks for the update.

Your MCH and MCHC has shown a slight improvement, but it's still below range (based on Dr. Weatherby's cheat sheet). Even if it's in range, based on what you're using as basis, it is on low range and that's still something you want to work on improving.

Let's assume your MCH is normal. This means the amount of hemoglobin in each red blood cells is in the normal range. Yet, your Hgb is way below range. This means that there is not enough enough RBCs going around. The low value of Hct confirms this, Hct referring to red blood cells in your blood. While you may consider your RBC within range, according to Dr. Weatherby, it's still below range. Regardless, it still can stand to improve a whole lot.

So, still a of work to be done by your bone marrow in increasing your RBC. Still, it's worth noting that you have improved your iron status from very deficient to slightly deficient, let's see if having that iron translates to increased RBC production. Maybe instead of taking iron supplements, you can instead increase meat consumption for its iron content.

Your folate/b12 status looks good now. Your MCV is within range, but I don't know what it was before. I don't recall and have difficulty backreading, but if it's an improvement, congratulations.

Increased meat intake will provide you with glutamate and methionine. If you add food rich in gelatin, it will provide glycine. These are needed to produce glutathione, which would be needed as an antioxidant in the cellular membranes, protecting from tissue damage. Your intake of thiamine is also helpful, as it keeps NADPH production in the pentose phosphate pathway going, as NADPH is needed to recycle glutathione when it gets oxidized by its antioxidant action. You want to make sure you have enough glutathione available as an antioxidant to protect your kidneys from damage.

I think it's misguided to cut down on protein intake so much because of the thinking that meat stresses the kidneys. It's true that meat is more acidic, but it's also true that you can take more alkaline foods such as fruits for potassium, and cooked green leaves for calcium and magnesium, and sodium by salting to taste. Cheese and milk also adds to your calcium intake. However, I'd be more careful with increasing calcium intake if your acid-base balance is poor and it makes your blood acidic. You need to ensure your acid-base balance is fine. When acidic, it could just cause more problems because it leads to calcification in organs.

A simple urine pH test will help determine your the state of your acid-base balance. If interested, let me know. Sorry, I've told people to do this so many times, I get frustrated because no one comes back to me, and I feel I'm wasting my keystrokes. As no ones believes a simple test can be very helpful. People are enamored with tests paid for by insurance companies.

Out of my soapbox, another reason doctors tell patients with kidney issues to cut back on meat is because it will raise creatinine levels. I think that being to raise your glutathione stores is more important, and not just glutathione stores, but other enzymes that are needed by your body. If you're having a hard time producing RBC's, it's probably because you're lacking the protein and enzymes to make it.

Remember that the amount of RBC is very important because it's the hemoglobin in your RBC that delivers oxygen to your tissues. If you're lacking RBC's, you're lacking a key ingredient for metabolism. If you're lacking that, your energy production will always be handicapped. This lack of energy defines strongly your level of health.

The other ingredient - glucose, is also not being used optimally by your body, as you have type 1 diabetes. Do you know how you developed this? Maybe this can be cured. If I know more about its history, maybe we can do something about improving your blood sugar metabolism as well as your blood sugar regulation. Maybe we can improve your production of insulin.

 

[DB_2014]

@DB_2014 What awesome results! Can I ask if you also live with diabetes (type 1 or 2) or is there a different cause to your CKD? I've done a little bit of research on it since you mentioned and it looks great. Other than benfotiamine being fat-soluble (vs. water-soluble), any true differences between taking benfotiamine and Vitamin B1 Thiamine Mononitrate? Any dangers of using benfotiamine? The thing I love about the supplement I am taking now is that dangers are little to none. Thanks for sharing your progress.

Yes, I have hyperadrenergic POTS disease. Kidney issues are common with this disease due to poor autonomic control and reduced blood flow. Thiamine mononitrate has low absorption. Benfotiamine has high absorption, but it doesn’t cross the blood brain barrier in high amounts. Lipothiamine and allithiamine cross the blood brain barrier in high amounts. I personally take Allithiamine or benfotiamine depending on what’s available from Amazon.

 

[danielteleman]

Thanks. Since I haven't had diabetes type I and haven't had the motivation to try to find a way to overcome it or cure it, I had to ask why diabetes would be a cause of diabetes. If I were to take a guess, I'd say that it comes down to having a deficit of energy. This is consistent with the the metabolic theory of disease, which is very much the heart of this forum, in my opinion, but often overlooked by many members here, as they deal with their health problems. There is the tendency to be very big pharma about it. as that has been the programming of civilized culture- as the more civilized, the more intricate and orchestrated the deception. It makes no difference whether it's a prescription drug, or a natural substance, be it isolated, synthetic, or whole in herb form, we're still looking for a magic bullet to fix the problem for us. In your original post, it was about thiamine, for example.

With a lack of energy, especially when it's continual, the cells lack the energy to do what they're supposed to be doing. In the case of the glomerulus - they're not able to do the job of filtering effectively. The doctors would consider lesions in the glomerular capillaries to be the cause, because they do not understand the idea of barriers that aren't in the classical physical sense, ergo a hole exists for the albumin to pass through. If you think of the barrier as a force field, then you may be more amenable to the idea that the filter barrier not doing its job is the lack of energy. There's no force field, but there's the structure enabled by energy in the cell that keeps albumin from passing through the endothelial cells of the glomerulus. This idea stems from Gilbert Ling's ideas. He has these great ideas, but they're rejected by the medical establishment, which has refused to consider him for a Nobel Prize. Yet they benefit from the application of his ideas, in the form of the MRI. But a rejection of good ideas is pervasive in medicine, and this would explain everything medicine does these days is basically palliative, but stretched out over longer periods.- extending our lives in misery is their reason for being- for each of us is a cash cow. Medicine never cures. Kidney problems are never solved. The pathology may even worsen when doctors step in, but we as sheep accept their explanation because they're the 'experts-' even as evidence shows they're selling us snake oil.

That's why they like to tout panaceas like thiamine. They may help, but only in a band-aid sort of way. That is a diversion, but many people like that approach. They use the substance, and after a few days, they observe improvement, and they're happy - end of story. But that is not healing. To be considering healed, the organ has to have restored and functionality improved without needing the help of any single substance, it has to rely on the body providing it the environment and the endogenous substances the body makes, from the good nutrition the body gets.

People like to take substances, and most people in this forum is no exception. And what are often overlooked are the basic substances. Oxygen and sugar are the main substrates for a healthy energy metabolism. Modern medicine has supplied you with an automated insulin pump. Now you have to ask yourself hard questions about how well it is doing for you. How has it improved your health? Has it helped you achieve good blood sugar regulation? Has your energy improved to such extent as you're having no dips in energy throughout the day and that you are able to sleep well at night? Are you sold on the idea that blood sugar regulation - especially sugar absorption by tissues, is solely dependent on having insulin? Have you been exposed to the idea that increasing potassium levels (and magnesium intake as well) would improve sugar absorption? While potassium is important, having acid base balance (to have enough CO2 to maximize tissue oxygenation) is just as important. And there are still other enzymes and vitamins needed in sufficiency to maximize energy production using the mitochondria. Consider that for the same amount of sugar and oxygen used, you're able to produce 16x more energy if your body is doing it correctly. Consider how your health, and maybe your kidneys, would be doing much better if you are able to produce 16x more energy than you are doing now. All that would be used to build, to heal, to regenerate, to improve immune defenses, and the excess left would be used to develop your brain as well as the superficial aspects such as skin and hair.

Superb post, this should be pinned somewhere in this forum.

 

[yerrag]

Superb post, this should be pinned somewhere in this forum.

Thanks.

I have a typo. "...diabetes would be a cause of diabetes" should read "...diabetes would be a cause of kidney disease."

I wonder how the OP is doing. I'm afraid that she likely ended up seeing a doctor.

It is very hard to leave the system. Hope she has and that she found a good doctor that really can heal.