Japan Was Not An Aggressor In World War 2

[michael94]

No, they weren't, and FDR would have had a hard time selling Americans another war in Europe. Luckily for him, Hitler was nice enough to hand it to him. With the declaration of war coming from Germany, FDR was even able to establish a "Europe first" policy, while the American public were mainly calling for retribution against the "Japs". There are many documented statements from high-ranking Nazi officials at the time, sneering at the U.S., declaring that American businessmen don't have the guts to fight, or that America could never convert their economy into a proper war economy. Every half-sane person would have done absolutely everything to keep the U.S. out of a war that couldn't be won even as it was. Many people that had been to the U.S. described their almost limitless capacity to produce tanks, aircraft, ships, and the stunning degree of motorization of their whole army. Yet, even right before the first major defeat of army group center in front of Moscow, the Nazis thought America just another nuisance that would be dealt with after they had mopped up the remainders of the crumbling red army. Hitler was absolutely delusional, and lost the remainder of his sanity between 1941 and the defeat at Stalingrad, in 1942.

According to his personal assistant, Hitler himself said this after the declaration of war:

“Hitler leaned right back and poured out his contempt for the Americans. He pointed out that an American car had never won an international tournament; that American aircraft looked fine, but their motors were worthless. This was proof for him that the much-lauded industries of America were terribly overestimated.”​

Source: David Stahel, Retreat from Moscow

I explained how America was waging war against Germany while claiming to be neutral. Also Hitler was expecting Japan to declare war and attack the Soviet Union which never happened. You can psychoanalyze Hitlers supposed insanity all you want but the fact is that Britain decided on war to the bitter end in 1939 and rejected every peace offer from Germany ( return to pre war borders, besides actual German areas like Danzig and West Prussia ) both before and after the defeat of France in 1940, without the USA or Soviet Union in the war. So who is the real warmongerer and insane person?

Also why did England not declare war on the Soviet Union who also invaded Poland a few weeks after Germany?

 

[Kvothe]

Also Hitler was expecting Japan to declare war and attack the Soviet Union which never happened.

Yes, because he was an idiot. The Japanese told him more or less directly that they had no interest in a war against the Soviet Union and prioritized other areas. Like I said, as opposed to the Allies, there was no coordination or a common strategy between the Axis powers.

You can psychoanalyze Hitlers supposed insanity all you want but the fact is that Britain decided on war to the bitter end in 1939 and rejected every peace offer from Germany ( return to pre war borders, besides actual German areas like Danzig and West Prussia ) both before and after the defeat of France in 1940, without the USA or Soviet Union in the war

Germany never offered any peace deal like that, with a return to pre-war borders. You read too much neo-Nazi propaganda or Heß-fairy tales. Hitler just gave a bunch of phony speeches and told Italian diplomats what they wanted to hear. If Hitler had had his will, the Wehrmacht would already have attacked France during the Winter of 1939, but his generals prevented him from such folly. Hitler also wrote a letter to Stalin (6 days before the attack) saying that he would never ever think of attacking him, and that any local attack would be the doing of treasonous generals. There is even a documented speech that Hitler made to his generals, in which he clearly lays out that he was forced to talk of peace to allow Germany recover its' strength before the allies could prevent his war plans.

Also why did England not declare war on the Soviet Union who also invaded Poland a few weeks after Germany?

Because the formal guarantees made by France and GB to Poland only applied to Germany and Hitler. There was no guarantee made for the case of an invasion by the Soviets. Pragmatism. The enemy of your enemy is your friend. Everybody knew Hitler was going after the Soviet Union, sooner or later. After all, he wrote it in his book, just in case anybody forgot his speeches. Without the Soviets, Britain would have been lost, so declaring war on them would have been suicide.
It's kind of ironic how nowadays, it is mostly Americans or people from other Anglo-Saxon countries that feel the need to invent crazy conspiracy theories in which Germany was a poor victim of Allied aggression. First Germany annexed Czechoslovakia because there were some Germans, then they annihilated Poland because they attacked a German radio station. Subsequently they were forced to blitzkrieg Norway, Denmark, France, Belgium, and the Netherlands. Somewhat later evil forces made them conquer the Balkans, and then they had to attack the Soviets in a preemptive war to defend themselves.
You can read dozens of books and papers on the topic, but I always found this video explains it nicely.

 

[michael94]

Germany never offered any peace deal like that, with a return to pre-war borders. You read too much neo-Nazi propaganda or Heß-fairy tales. Hitler just gave a bunch of phony speeches and told Italian diplomats what they wanted to hear. If Hitler had had his will, the Wehrmacht would already have attacked France during the Winter of 1939, but his generals prevented him from such folly. Hitler also wrote a letter to Stalin (6 days before the attack) saying that he would never ever think of attacking him, and that any local attack would be the doing of treasonous generals. There is even a documented speech that Hitler made to his generals, in which he clearly lays out that he was forced to talk of peace to allow Germany recover its' strength before the allies could prevent his war plans.

Yes, Germany offered to pull all of their troops out of occupied territories and a complete end to the hostilities. Churchill is one of the few in England who was pushing to reject it. This does not even cover all the other proposals that Britain rejected regarding limiting the most destructive artillery and bombimg capabilities in the mid 1930s, which would have put Europe on a more stable defensive basis.

What The World Rejected: Hitler's Peace Offers 1933-1940 by Dr. Friedrich Stieve : Friedrich Stieve : Free Download, Borrow, and Streaming : Internet Archive

 

[michael94]

First Germany annexed Czechoslovakia because there were some Germans, then they annihilated Poland because they attacked a German radio station. Subsequently they were forced to blitzkrieg Norway, Denmark, France, Belgium, and the Netherlands. Somewhat later evil forces made them conquer the Balkans, and then they had to attack the Soviets in a preemptive war to defend themselves.

Germany annexed Czechia because after the Munich Conference and agreed annexation of the Sudetenland, that fake country fell apart. Slovakia did no longer want to be a part of it, and Czechia was dependent on the Sudetenland for its economy. It was annexed not because it was planned but in response to a messy situation.

Germany did not invade Poland because of the Gliewitz incident, that was just one of numerous border violations that Summer. The bigger issue was that Germanys proposal to resolve not just the Versailles Treaty but Polands violatio of the Versailles Treaty regarding plebiscites and treatment of the German minority was responded to by Poland increasing insecurity for Germans living in the corridor. Hitlers offer was only for the return of Danzig ( not even part of Poland ) and a extra-territorial highway so Germany could have land access to East Prussia. This was followed by months of German refugees from Poland, mobilization of Polands army to the Western border, and Britain telling Poland to refuse all negotiations with Germany while telling Germany that Poland was willing to listen in good faith. Hitler and Mussolini even proppsed to end the invasion on September 2nd 1939 and return to negotiations which the British again told Poland to ignore.

Norway Denmark and Belgium/Netherlands invasions were to stunt British preparations while war was in full swing.

 

[sladerunner69]

Your love for fascism and attempts to disprove historical facts with ridiculous sources are quite amusing. Nanking massacre never happened! Source? The Society for the Dissemination of Historical Fact (seriously, lol). You would guess that people on this forum are capable of critically evaluating the quality of a source, but I guess some people just always need to adopt the opposite position of the accepted consensus, mainly because they vastly overestimate their own importance or intelligence.



The explanation is quite easy. On the level of society, there is a clear relationship between stupidity and indoctrination on one side, and violence and mindless obedience on the other side. Stupid nations tend to loose wars, and both Germany and Japan were mind-boggling stupid. Hitler and his buddies thought the Soviet Union would be beaten in 4 weeks, and declared war on the U.S. because they thought them no serious threat The Axis were so thoroughly indoctrinated with their own racial propaganda, and delusional ideology that they thought themselves able to win the war on the basis of their racial superiority. They lacked even the most basic level of strategic intelligence, while the Allies were clever enough to understand how a war is won through material production, strategic coherence, and mutual support.

There are many Japanese professors who argue the rape of Nanking didn't happen; that it is Chinese Propaganda. This isn't something to be arrogantly brushed aside as "ridiculous" or by ad hominem (calling the OP a fascist). Instead, why don't you provide a few sources and some prose to refute his claims? I think that would be far mroe productive.

 

[sladerunner69]

Yes, Germany offered to pull all of their troops out of occupied territories and a complete end to the hostilities. Churchill is one of the few in England who was pushing to reject it. This does not even cover all the other proposals that Britain rejected regarding limiting the most destructive artillery and bombimg capabilities in the mid 1930s, which would have put Europe on a more stable defensive basis.

What The World Rejected: Hitler's Peace Offers 1933-1940 by Dr. Friedrich Stieve : Friedrich Stieve : Free Download, Borrow, and Streaming : Internet Archive

No, they weren't, and FDR would have had a hard time selling Americans another war in Europe. Luckily for him, Hitler was nice enough to hand it to him. With the declaration of war coming from Germany, FDR was even able to establish a "Europe first" policy, while the American public were mainly calling for retribution against the "Japs". There are many documented statements from high-ranking Nazi officials at the time, sneering at the U.S., declaring that American businessmen don't have the guts to fight, or that America could never convert their economy into a proper war economy. Every half-sane person would have done absolutely everything to keep the U.S. out of a war that couldn't be won even as it was. Many people that had been to the U.S. described their almost limitless capacity to produce tanks, aircraft, ships, and the stunning degree of motorization of their whole army. Yet, even right before the first major defeat of army group center in front of Moscow, the Nazis thought America just another nuisance that would be dealt with after they had mopped up the remainders of the crumbling red army. Hitler was absolutely delusional, and lost the remainder of his sanity between 1941 and the defeat at Stalingrad, in 1942.

According to his personal assistant, Hitler himself said this after the declaration of war:

“Hitler leaned right back and poured out his contempt for the Americans. He pointed out that an American car had never won an international tournament; that American aircraft looked fine, but their motors were worthless. This was proof for him that the much-lauded industries of America were terribly overestimated.”​

Source: David Stahel, Retreat from Moscow

There were many in England who did seem to yearn for war. I had always found the document below to be rather intriguing.

 

[schultz]

Only a few points are Revisionist ( i.e. whether the Nanking Massacre actually happened against civilians ). The other points are simply not well known. In America we are taught that Japan was spreading a reign of terror over Asia and then attacked Pearl Harbor which forced FDR to enter WW2. We dont learn about everything FDR was doing in the lead up to then (December 1941)


Sabotage played a huge role, which is not discussed as much in English

Conspiracy and Betrayal Around Hitler (Review)

Yeah I suppose things are never as simple as they appear to be. There are probably many things we do not understand about the war.

 

[DMF]

The History Of The World: If you have 2 cents in your hand - somebody will take it away from you.

 

[GelatinGoblin]

So how does the supposed systemic murder machine of the Nazis compare to that used in Russia and China? They both killed orders of magnitude more. Some estimates are over 100 million deliberately killed and disappeared. Yet why are they not constantly tagged with the same vitriol that Nazi's are?



It's only in the internet age that anybody gets much exposure to some of these different viewpoints.

Lol...

 

[Rooster]

From 2nd hand knowledge of a retired USAF general I knew, FDR thought the Japanese attack was going to be much smaller and never expected a pacific theater war with Japan would be as fierce as it turned out. They never imagined that being defeated they would keep fighting and committing suicide air dives as an example.

 

[ddjd]

View: https://twitter.com/JackStr42679640/status/1748219855109832723?t=glQUg25zsY75MKPxmxznKw&s=19

 

[ddjd]

Pretty much sums up the truth of the 20th century in 2 minutes


View: https://twitter.com/bambkb/status/1766190540368863664?t=OsUvsOGvIaBpOmLcIRmjrA&s=19