(Inosine + Niacinamide) Just Cured (or Treated) My Bipolar Depression

[CoconutEffect]

hopefully cured, but we shall see.
1 gram of each
pretty sure it's the combination of the two, complete reversal of mood within 20 minutes?

I take large doses of inosine all the time as it seems to help with creativity/songwriting, never helped my mood
And I've taken niacinamide before but never at the same time as inosine

I am Bipolar 2 and was researching the forum looking for alternatives to Klonopin (only mood stabilizer that works) and found Haidut's recommendation to take Inosine and Niacinamide together. Thanks @haidut

Please ask away/offer suggestions - I plan to continue on this combination at 1g TID

 

[mujuro]

I've heard good things about inosine. May I say that Lapodin was phenomenally effective for my bipolar symptoms. It all but eliminated them. That particular experiment only lasted a week, since the emodin was so effective I actually started getting Addison's symptoms. I think perhaps my fitness, activity levels, muscle mass and BF% probably contributed to such a heightened sensitivity. I am yet to retry, since I've been so busy with study and work, but I plan on giving it another go during my break. Haidut showed me a study that revealed elevated 11bhsd1 levels in bipolars and schizophrenics, both of which are characterized by a significant dysfunction of the adrenal axis.

I remember years ago someone suggested uridine + DHA for my symptoms. I never tried it, and of course I won't consume DHA, but I wonder if there is any evidence to support uridine for the same issues.

 

[CoconutEffect]

I've heard good things about inosine. May I say that Lapodin was phenomenally effective for my bipolar symptoms. It all but eliminated them. That particular experiment only lasted a week, since the emodin was so effective I actually started getting Addison's symptoms. I think perhaps my fitness, activity levels, muscle mass and BF% probably contributed to such a heightened sensitivity. I am yet to retry, since I've been so busy with study and work, but I plan on giving it another go during my break. Haidut showed me a study that revealed elevated 11bhsd1 levels in bipolars and schizophrenics, both of which are characterized by a significant dysfunction of the adrenal axis.

I remember years ago someone suggested uridine + DHA for my symptoms. I never tried it, and of course I won't consume DHA, but I wonder if there is any evidence to support uridine for the same issues.

So interesting about Lapodin.
Before Peating, I got really into herbs and use to brew and ingest large amounts of Pau D' Arco tea. The anti-depressant effects were remarkable but lasted only a day at a time - and then no response at all. First time my mood had lifted in years, so it was a quasi-religious experience.
You might call that remission 1.
Remission 2 was with the anti-convulsant Dilantin. (Is anyone familiar with Jack Dreyfus and his work with Dilantin?)
I was tracking cytokines back then and, TGF beta 1 and MMP9 had been particularly high, 5x the reference range or so. While in a remission on Dilantin those markers completely normalized. I believe I developed Pgp multi drug resistance, very common in refractory epilepsy, and so Dilantin no longer works, along with all the anti convulsant/and bipolar mood stabilizers in that class. (this is why I'm on Klonopin)
MMP9 is inhibited by Beta-Lapachone according to a study @haidut posted.
So obviously I bought Lapodin as soon as it came out (thinking alternative delivery would make a difference and also, drinking a gallon of tea wasn't tenable anyway) no response with Lapodin.

@mujuro or @haidut, has Lapodin changed since its initial release?
I remember it staining my wrists a bit to the point where I couldn't really take it daily.
What dose were you using mujuro? Topically, orally?
Should I give Panquinone a shot? @haidut

Will try Uridine and report back!

 

[mujuro]

I'm not sure if haidut has changed Lapodin. I think the batch I have is at least 9 months old. A brown liquid in a clear dropper bottle. I was using 1 dose (24 drops) topically, once a day, spread over my thighs to expedite absorption. I had used it orally prior to that with no noticeable effects. It just gave me awful DMSO breath. The difference for me between topical and oral is day and night.

What are your thoughts on lithium? It is a necessity for me.

 

[haidut]

So interesting about Lapodin.
Before Peating, I got really into herbs and use to brew and ingest large amounts of Pau D' Arco tea. The anti-depressant effects were remarkable but lasted only a day at a time - and then no response at all. First time my mood had lifted in years, so it was a quasi-religious experience.
You might call that remission 1.
Remission 2 was with the anti-convulsant Dilantin. (Is anyone familiar with Jack Dreyfus and his work with Dilantin?)
I was tracking cytokines back then and, TGF beta 1 and MMP9 had been particularly high, 5x the reference range or so. While in a remission on Dilantin those markers completely normalized. I believe I developed Pgp multi drug resistance, very common in refractory epilepsy, and so Dilantin no longer works, along with all the anti convulsant/and bipolar mood stabilizers in that class. (this is why I'm on Klonopin)
MMP9 is inhibited by Beta-Lapachone according to a study @haidut posted.
So obviously I bought Lapodin as soon as it came out (thinking alternative delivery would make a difference and also, drinking a gallon of tea wasn't tenable anyway) no response with Lapodin.

@mujuro or @haidut, has Lapodin changed since its initial release?
I remember it staining my wrists a bit to the point where I couldn't really take it daily.
What dose were you using mujuro? Topically, orally?
Should I give Panquinone a shot? @haidut

Will try Uridine and report back!

Lapodin has not changed yet, except now the ethanol propostion is more and there is less DMSO to avoid skin irritation and the bad breath. We do plan on starting to use pure emodin and naphthoquinones in a few weeks instead of the concentrated extracts we use now. The extracts are both 20:1 potency but do leave some residue in the bottle and we want to try with pure chemicals so that the liquid looks transparent like say Kuinone, but the color would be deep amber. Based on our tests the purified chemicals work just as well if not better than the extracts. But obviously we would keep the extracts handy in case people do not like the purified chemicals.

 

[haidut]

hopefully cured, but we shall see.
1 gram of each
pretty sure it's the combination of the two, complete reversal of mood within 20 minutes?

I take large doses of inosine all the time as it seems to help with creativity/songwriting, never helped my mood
And I've taken niacinamide before but never at the same time as inosine

I am Bipolar 2 and was researching the forum looking for alternatives to Klonopin (only mood stabilizer that works) and found Haidut's recommendation to take Inosine and Niacinamide together. Thanks @haidut

Please ask away/offer suggestions - I plan to continue on this combination at 1g TID

Inosine is a powerful anti-depressant. Animal models show it is equivalent to fluoxetine or amphetamines in a HED of just 100mg - 200mg daily. Inosine serves as an alternative source of ATP synthesis and low ATP levels in the brain is what causes the depression. Also, niacinamide enhances activity of 11b-HSD2, which deactivates cortisol and of course is a precursor to NAD, which is also needed for ATP generation. So, the combination of the two is really powerful and I am not surprised it helps for mood problems.

 

[Dante]

Inosine is a powerful anti-depressant. Animal models show it is equivalent to fluoxetine or amphetamines in a HED of just 100mg - 200mg daily. Inosine serves as an alternative source of ATP synthesis and low ATP levels in the brain is what causes the depression. Also, niacinamide enhances activity of 11b-HSD2, which deactivates cortisol and of course is a precursor to NAD, which is also needed for ATP generation. So, the combination of the two is really powerful and I am not surprised it helps for mood problems.

Wouldn't semi-acute/chronic amphetamines usage cause "D2 receptor downregulation" and cause bad withdrawals upon leaving? It's interesting that you have lumped prozac and amphetamine together.

 

[haidut]

Wouldn't semi-acute/chronic amphetamines usage cause "D2 receptor downregulation" and cause bad withdrawals upon leaving? It's interesting that you have lumped prozac and amphetamine together.

I am lumping them because the studies used them as anti-depressants. My point is comparing inosine to them, not suggesting that people should use amphetamines. Bottom line is that amphetamines have anti-depressant effects, which is one of the reasons people abuse them. If something benign and OTC like inosine can provide the same benefit and actually cure a condition it is a shame that it is not getting more publicity. One of the reasons is that it is considered "commie science". Most research with inosine was done in the former Soviet block, but that is changing. If you look on PubMed there a recent clinical trials with it for MS, Parkinson, Alzheimer, TBI, depression, and even cancer. So, I hope that does not lead to it being declared "experimental drug" like it happened with the vitamin pyridoxamine.
Pyridoxamine - Wikipedia

 

[Mufasa]

IIRC, fresh orange juice has a very high amount of inosine.

 

[CoconutEffect]

I'm not sure if haidut has changed Lapodin. I think the batch I have is at least 9 months old. A brown liquid in a clear dropper bottle. I was using 1 dose (24 drops) topically, once a day, spread over my thighs to expedite absorption. I had used it orally prior to that with no noticeable effects. It just gave me awful DMSO breath. The difference for me between topical and oral is day and night.

What are your thoughts on lithium? It is a necessity for me.

Lithium Carbonate SEEMS to keep my feet warm.
This would be consistent with Ray's writings.
I take about 1600mg before bed. I get pure optical grade Lithium off Ebay.
Lithium toxicity can kill you, please, I do this under a doctor's supervision.

Mujuro - this is all I notice from Lithium, but I come off it from time to time.
What do you notice? And is there a difference between what you notice in the short term and the long term?

 

[mujuro]

Lithium for me is the ultimate stabilizer. I know of nothing better for quieting my anger. It works within hours. It's easy to tell when I haven't taken it. After 2 or 3 days my irritability increases, which soon turns into rage over the slightest thing. Something simple like a bad set in the gym will snowball and put me into a foul mood. Following this are feelings of hopelessness, frustration, recklessness. I find myself looking more at other people's successes and then dwelling on my shortcomings. I'm only on 450mg of carbonate. The only negative is that it gives me mild brain fog, which is why I take it at night, so I'm spared the Cmax effects. My psychiatrist says that it potentiates anything psychoactive taken alongside it, which I've found to be true in my experience. I rarely ever get depression these days - nicotine has helped immensely with this. I'm on 100mg quetiapine and 10mg escitalopram. The latter is a problem, I know, but it's something I'm lacking in determination to deal with. At this stage in my life, with only part time work and full time study, I don't have the energy or time to deal with the painful withdrawal process.

 

[DaveFoster]

hopefully cured, but we shall see.
1 gram of each
pretty sure it's the combination of the two, complete reversal of mood within 20 minutes?

I take large doses of inosine all the time as it seems to help with creativity/songwriting, never helped my mood
And I've taken niacinamide before but never at the same time as inosine

I am Bipolar 2 and was researching the forum looking for alternatives to Klonopin (only mood stabilizer that works) and found Haidut's recommendation to take Inosine and Niacinamide together. Thanks @haidut

Please ask away/offer suggestions - I plan to continue on this combination at 1g TID

How long do the effects last, and how often do you dose?

 

[CoconutEffect]

How long do the effects last, and how often do you dose?

It's only day 2 and it's really hard for me to say.
I've lowered my Klonopin dose by .5mg and that hasn't been a total catastrophe
but I'm not working from a baseline so can't accurately answer your question just yet.
I am dosing 1g of both inosine and niacinamide 3x a day.

 

[DaveFoster]

It's only day 2 and it's really hard for me to say.
I've lowered my Klonopin dose by .5mg and that hasn't been a total catastrophe
but I'm not working from a baseline so can't accurately answer your question just yet.
I am dosing 1g of both inosine and niacinamide 3x a day.

Thanks for the response. I'm interested to try it; be very gradual with tapering off of Klonopin.

 

[CoconutEffect]

Lithium for me is the ultimate stabilizer. I know of nothing better for quieting my anger. It works within hours. It's easy to tell when I haven't taken it. After 2 or 3 days my irritability increases, which soon turns into rage over the slightest thing. Something simple like a bad set in the gym will snowball and put me into a foul mood. Following this are feelings of hopelessness, frustration, recklessness. I find myself looking more at other people's successes and then dwelling on my shortcomings. I'm only on 450mg of carbonate. The only negative is that it gives me mild brain fog, which is why I take it at night, so I'm spared the Cmax effects. My psychiatrist says that it potentiates anything psychoactive taken alongside it, which I've found to be true in my experience. I rarely ever get depression these days - nicotine has helped immensely with this. I'm on 100mg quetiapine and 10mg escitalopram. The latter is a problem, I know, but it's something I'm lacking in determination to deal with. At this stage in my life, with only part time work and full time study, I don't have the energy or time to deal with the painful withdrawal process.

That's really great. Hopefully that means you're getting the host of other benefits associated with Lithium ingestion.
Vitamin C (3g) took away the irritable aspect of my hypomanic episodes, rather permanently.
I use/used Quali C heeding Ray's warnings on typical Vit. C supplements.

I'm just remembering now, when I was on higher doses of Klonopin last year, Lithium seemed to lower the incidences of cataplexy that I'd get walking around etc...
I just wish it did more for my circadian rhythms, (like the literature suggests it might)
which are extremely fragile and can influence my mood dramatically.
@mujuro, Have you found anything that helps with that in particular?

I have avoided atpyicals because of prolactin issues. 9 years ago or so when I was 19, my psychiatrist overdosed me on Paxil and my prolactin issues shot up, in what was probably a serotonin syndrome.
But quetiapine doesn't appear to affect prolactin release too badly?
Quetiapine is not associated with increase in prolactin secretion in contrast to haloperidol.
Quetiapine is not associated with increase in prolactin secretion in contrast to haloperidol. - PubMed - NCBI

Now I'm curious, how does quetiapine help you, any drowsiness?

 

[mujuro]

Yes, very intense sedation. But I am extremely sensitive to neuroleptics and antihistamines (whilst being almost immune to opiates). My wife takes 300mg and barely feels a thing. The prolactin elevations from quetiapine are not noticeable for me. It has the lowest affinity for D2 receptors out of all the atypicals. I'm sure I read in the literature that sufficient concentrations of dopamine will actually displace it, but don't quote me on that. With all of the anti-estrogenic, anti-prolactin measures I take, and only at 100mg, I'd wager my prolactin is lower than some people NOT on quetiapine. I've also seen its effects in bloodwork. Quetiapine can literally overnight cut my circulating cortisol down to 1/4th (non medicated vs medicated).

 

[Peata]

hopefully cured, but we shall see.
1 gram of each
pretty sure it's the combination of the two, complete reversal of mood within 20 minutes?

I take large doses of inosine all the time as it seems to help with creativity/songwriting, never helped my mood
And I've taken niacinamide before but never at the same time as inosine

I am Bipolar 2 and was researching the forum looking for alternatives to Klonopin (only mood stabilizer that works) and found Haidut's recommendation to take Inosine and Niacinamide together. Thanks @haidut

Please ask away/offer suggestions - I plan to continue on this combination at 1g TID

So 1 g. inosine helps your creativity? How many doses do you take per day? Do you take breaks from it at times?

 

[Dragon]

.... I believe I developed Pgp multi drug resistance,
Will try Uridine and report back!

Verapamil blocks Pgp. As I recall, it can increase absorption of some drugs up to 80X (yes, 8000%). Perhaps useful, yet something to be very careful of.

fyi, there are several very long threads on Longecity about uridine. There are 2 forms available. And, as usual, half the people report being touched by god, while half say they didn't feel a thing, or it made them puke...

 

[sladerunner69]

So 1 g. inosine helps your creativity? How many doses do you take per day? Do you take breaks from it at times?

I take 500mg per day and it helps abet me in my brain game. I can totally feel extra on it man, feels good man!

 

[ddjd]

Lithium Carbonate SEEMS to keep my feet warm.
This would be consistent with Ray's writings.
I take about 1600mg before bed. I get pure optical grade Lithium off Ebay.
Lithium toxicity can kill you, please, I do this under a doctor's supervision.

Mujuro - this is all I notice from Lithium, but I come off it from time to time.
What do you notice? And is there a difference between what you notice in the short term and the long term?

So lithium carbonate is reducing Adrenaline?