Inhibit / slow down excessive Fatty acid oxidation (FAO).

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Reading some of Haidut's discussions I came to the conclusion why pyruvate (currently only calcium) has given me a benefit and an answer to my health problems.

I was initially strongly convinced in a malfunctioning glycolysis due to my low lactate / pyruvate levels.

As the months went by, however, I realized that the severe cachexia I had in 2014 could be due to my body overuse of referring to FAO.

Pyruvate along with niacinamide and vitamin E are the most famous FAO partial inhibitors

Other drugs not yet used are Mildronate.

I specify that I do not have a tumor / cancer.

Niacinamide helped me a lot initially the first week then it seems to have worsened insulin resistance ... I started to accumulate fat / water retention and have very severe mood imbalances ... considering that an excessive FAO would inhibit the correct use of the Krebs cycle and ETC ... gives a response to my low levels of neurotransmitters.

I think I am one of the most emblematic cases within this Forum because the symptoms have been present since I was 4 years old so the imbalances have been (and still are) heavy in all points of view.

I have always accumulated fat and water, excessive hunger and no muscle gain as well as suffering from tremendous brain / physical ataxia, asthenia, apathy, high internal tension, paranoia, high serotonin / adrenaline symptoms, difficulty with logic, dialogue, high ammonia, nocturnal seizures and even a stroke-like episode.

I opened this thread to try to be able to create (waiting for a diagnosis, should I do a muscle biopsy?) A stack that can allow me to live one day like a normal person.

When I am partially well it seems to me to come out of a tunnel that has no way out.

I feel that my body is waking up and starting ... that the whole wheel is turning in the right direction.

I would love to get niacinamide back in my hand but I realize that I keep taking steps backwards every time as vitamin E and calcium pyruvate have fewer side effects in the long run.

I also did a short, partially positive period with only simple sugars from fruit from honey ... proteins from yogurt and milk, cheeses ... very low fat about 20-25 per day ... practically Ray style but it is not sustainable anyway.

Any little stress gives me the "crash" ...
 

tankasnowgod

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I also did a short, partially positive period with only simple sugars from fruit from honey ... proteins from yogurt and milk, cheeses ... very low fat about 20-25 per day ... practically Ray style but it is not sustainable anyway.

Any little stress gives me the "crash" ...

I'm going to be experimenting with more FAO inhibition starting this month. I plan also plan on cutting fat quite a bit in my diet. I'll be cutting fat overall, but the biggest factor will be cutting PUFA.

As far as going on a very low fat diet, I think the most common mistakes people make are eating too many cold foods, and simply not getting enough sugar. I'll hazzard a guess you weren't getting much sugar from just fruit and honey (though honey is pretty carb dense). Maybe around 200g of sugar?

That sounds like a lot, and would be in a normal diet, but look at what William Brown ate on his "No Fat" diet experiment. 128g of protein from milk (roughly 500 cals), and the remaining 2000 cals from sugars (sucrose and the lactose in milk, with a little bit of starch from his "vitamin biscuit"). That's 500g of carbs, with 95% of it sugars.

It still only adds up to 2500 cals. That was thought to be a "weight maintenance" diet, but Brown still lost about 15 pounds the first 3 months.

I think if you want to cut levels of fat below 60g a day, you probably should add a lot of sugar to either milk, coffee, or other meals might. Even a few pounds of fruit might only have 150g of sugar.

Make some simply syrup, and have it on hand. Otherwise, it's real easy to slash calories far beyond what you would expect.
 

Cloudhands

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Niacinamide will make u fat if you dont include methyl donors, i think TMG and MSM are the most talked about ones. Also, niacinamide doesnt seem to inhibit ffa and fao as much as regular niacin. Id reccomend whole fruit and no white sugar, and maybe include some b1 hcl as well. These are very easy and cheap ways to help.
 

Highserotonin90

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La niacinamide ti farà ingrassare se non includi donatori di metile, penso che TMG e MSM siano i più discussi. Inoltre, la niacinamide non sembra inibire la ffa e la fao tanto quanto la niacina normale. Consiglio la frutta intera e senza zucchero bianco, e magari includi anche un po 'di b1 hcl. Questi sono modi molto semplici ed economici per aiutare.
Niacin release Fatty Acid, is opposite Niacinamide. You are wrong?
 

Highserotonin90

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Niacinamide will make u fat if you dont include methyl donors, i think TMG and MSM are the most talked about ones. Also, niacinamide doesnt seem to inhibit ffa and fao as much as regular niacin. Id reccomend whole fruit and no white sugar, and maybe include some b1 hcl as well. These are very easy and cheap ways to help.
@Hans is correct?
 

Scenes

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Niacinamide will make u fat if you dont include methyl donors, i think TMG and MSM are the most talked about ones. Also, niacinamide doesnt seem to inhibit ffa and fao as much as regular niacin. Id reccomend whole fruit and no white sugar, and maybe include some b1 hcl as well. These are very easy and cheap ways to help.
People been wondering why niacinamide makes them fat for years and you been sitting on this gem? Can you elaborate?
 
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Niacin release Fatty Acid, is opposite Niacinamide. You are wrong?
I think niacin lowers FFAs, but the rebound may increase it to higher levels than before.
Vitamin B3 Blocks FFA Elevation Caused By Caffeine | Ray Peat Forum
I'm going to be experimenting with more FAO inhibition starting this month. I plan also plan on cutting fat quite a bit in my diet. I'll be cutting fat overall, but the biggest factor will be cutting PUFA.

As far as going on a very low fat diet, I think the most common mistakes people make are eating too many cold foods, and simply not getting enough sugar. I'll hazzard a guess you weren't getting much sugar from just fruit and honey (though honey is pretty carb dense). Maybe around 200g of sugar?

That sounds like a lot, and would be in a normal diet, but look at what William Brown ate on his "No Fat" diet experiment. 128g of protein from milk (roughly 500 cals), and the remaining 2000 cals from sugars (sucrose and the lactose in milk, with a little bit of starch from his "vitamin biscuit"). That's 500g of carbs, with 95% of it sugars.

It still only adds up to 2500 cals. That was thought to be a "weight maintenance" diet, but Brown still lost about 15 pounds the first 3 months.

I think if you want to cut levels of fat below 60g a day, you probably should add a lot of sugar to either milk, coffee, or other meals might. Even a few pounds of fruit might only have 150g of sugar.

Make some simply syrup, and have it on hand. Otherwise, it's real easy to slash calories far beyond what you would expect.
Very true. If one isn't going to use white sugar or honey and is eating low fat, they need to eat a heck of a lot of fruit, something like 5 kilos a day, if we're talking about common fruits like oranges and apples. Melons and watermelons have even less sugar. There are some tropical fruits like jackfruit, which are much more dense. Two kilos of it would give you almost 400 grams of carbs. Dried fruits, like dates, are of course also a much easier way to get sugar without ingesting a lot of water along with it.
 

TopGun1911

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Nicotinic acid (Niacin) releases a crazy amount of FFA as a rebound. Nicotinamide doesn't do this.
 

tankasnowgod

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People been wondering why niacinamide makes them fat for years and you been sitting on this gem? Can you elaborate?

I have never seen one person state that niacinamide makes them fat. The thing that many claim on this forum is that it stops them from losing fat.
 

Cloudhands

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Niacin release Fatty Acid, is opposite Niacinamide. You are wrong?

I think niacin lowers FFAs, but the rebound may increase it to higher levels than before.
Vitamin B3 Blocks FFA Elevation Caused By Caffeine | Ray Peat Forum

Very true. If one isn't going to use white sugar or honey and is eating low fat, they need to eat a heck of a lot of fruit, something like 5 kilos a day, if we're talking about common fruits like oranges and apples. Melons and watermelons have even less sugar. There are some tropical fruits like jackfruit, which are much more dense. Two kilos of it would give you almost 400 grams of carbs. Dried fruits, like dates, are of course also a much easier way to get sugar without ingesting a lot of water along with it.

Nicotinic acid (Niacin) releases a crazy amount of FFA as a rebound. Nicotinamide doesn't do this.
My b yall are correct!
 

Cloudhands

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People been wondering why niacinamide makes them fat for years and you been sitting on this gem? Can you elaborate?
Niacinamide won’t inhibit fat loss if you replenish the methyl groups that it uses up from being metabolized. Can use either Trimethylglycine or MSM supplementation for this.

Rodent studies show niacinamide has a very small, but positive, effect on fat loss / reduced fat gain as long as the rats don’t become methyl-group depleted.

Niacin also has a mildly beneficial effect on fat loss:

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View attachment 18014

See also here: (Niacin in humans: More muscle, less fat)
Proof-of-principle That NAD+ Deficiency Exists In Humans

NOTE: these two studies on niacin would NOT translate to niacinamide, becuase niacinamide does not activate GPR109A at all.
 

Hans

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Lowering methyl donors too much can cause fatty liver, but niacinamide hasn't been found to do this. They're evening doing a study with niacinamide for fatty liver (R). No research that I've come across showed that niacinamide makes you fat. On the contrary, niacinamide can put you in a more oxidized state and prevent excess fat gain from carbs.
 

Highserotonin90

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Lowering methyl donors too much can cause fatty liver, but niacinamide hasn't been found to do this. They're evening doing a study with niacinamide for fatty liver (R). No research that I've come across showed that niacinamide makes you fat. On the contrary, niacinamide can put you in a more oxidized state and prevent excess fat gain from carbs.

@Hans Very well, I have experienced severe cortisol lowering with doses above 100mg of Niacinamide ... despite consuming high carbohydrate meals. How would you deal with this?
 

Highserotonin90

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What exact symptoms do you experience when you take it?

It doesn't always happen ... but if I take it after physical and mental exertion it's not a good idea.

It caused me a strong general apathy and asthenia. I have taken many carbohydrates and the situation has not changed ... even an episode of hypoglycemia after dinner but mine as you know is a very special and rare condition.

Now I use doses of 50mg.

Probably assuming a total collapse of cortisol.
 

Hans

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It doesn't always happen ... but if I take it after physical and mental exertion it's not a good idea.

It caused me a strong general apathy and asthenia. I have taken many carbohydrates and the situation has not changed ... even an episode of hypoglycemia after dinner but mine as you know is a very special and rare condition.

Now I use doses of 50mg.

Probably assuming a total collapse of cortisol.
Then don't take it when you're exhausted. :)
Take it when you're feeling your best during the day with lots of carbs.
 

tankasnowgod

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Then don't take it when you're exhausted. :)
Take it when you're feeling your best during the day with lots of carbs.
Yep, good idea. I've been eating very little fat early in the day, and I've been using Niacinamide and Pyrucet then. So, far, I have seen subtle effects from this, but I suspect they will build over the coming month or so. I do plan on increasing dietary fat in the evening a little bit, as I was getting some "fat starvation" type pains really late. But the mornings have been great.
 

Hans

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Yep, good idea. I've been eating very little fat early in the day, and I've been using Niacinamide and Pyrucet then. So, far, I have seen subtle effects from this, but I suspect they will build over the coming month or so. I do plan on increasing dietary fat in the evening a little bit, as I was getting some "fat starvation" type pains really late. But the mornings have been great.
Good stuff man. I have a friend that gets really tired after carbs, so I gave him Pyrucet and B1 with a bunch of sugar and he had great energy for hours without any dip.
As a side note, I've added eggs to my very low-fat diet around my workout and I do feel that it makes it easier to adhere to.
 

Highserotonin90

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I started combining 1: 1 niacinamide with TMG. I'm noticing much less fatigue and general apathy but I wouldn't want to get too into methylation ...
 
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