Idealabs Comments And Suggestions

[haidut]

What are your upcoming products @haidut ?

Can't discuss upcoming ideas much, but the next one may be an ATP product.

 

[haidut]

@haidut Just on the subject of usps. I normally receive your packages in about 2 weeks but after 6wks I lodged a lost parcel(parcels) shipped by you on the 8th & 9th feb. Had just about given up hope when parcels were tracked at San Fran on the 4 & 5th Apr. Yeehar!

Wow, sorry about that. We have had 6 week delivery a few times but it usually was due to an issue with airport strikes and such. I hope this is an anomaly and not the norm.

 

[haidut]

Gotcha @haidut. Last question for the time being is what would be the ultimate pre workout concoction for favoring a lean physique? I used to take a pre workout called Jacked3D with an ephedrine like substance called DMAA. Not favorable obviously but got me in the best shape of my life when i was competing athletically. Below is what i imagine would be a solid pre workout stack.

Diamant
Lapodin
Energin
Pansterone
Caffeine
Niacinamide
Methylene Blue

Would there be any other dopaminergic compounds that would facilitate athletic performance?

For energy before workout I'd say Energin and Oxidal would be best. Maybe some Diamant as well. After workout, Pansterone and maybe Lapodin to keep cortisol in check. Androsterone and 11-keto DHT as needed. Some people say muscle strength increased considerably on caffeine + anti-serotonin like cypro even though if the cypro dose is too much it can make people sleepy.

 

[PUTFOT]

Can't discuss upcoming ideas much, but the next one may be an ATP product.

Would that work for beard growth too?

 

[japanesedude]

Why is the product page divided into two?
I plan to order pansterone and androsterone shortly, but will shipping fee be doubled?

http://www.idealabsdc.com/lab/
IdeaLabs Online Store - Worldwide Ordering And Delivery

 

[Koveras]

@haidut

I think I recall you looking at azone in the past. This seems interesting.

Development of essential oils as skin permeation enhancers: penetration enhancement effect and mechanism of action. - PubMed - NCBI

Pharm Biol. 2017 Dec;55(1):1592-1600. doi: 10.1080/13880209.2017.1312464.
Development of essential oils as skin permeation enhancers: penetration enhancement effect and mechanism of action.

Jiang Q1,2, Wu Y1,2, Zhang H2, Liu P1, Yao J2, Yao P2, Chen J1,2, Duan J1.

CONTEXT:
Essential oils (EOs) have shown the potential to reversibly overcome the stratum corneum (SC) barrier to enhance the skin permeation of drugs.
OBJECTIVE:
The effectiveness of turpentine, Angelica, chuanxiong, Cyperus, cinnamon, and clove oils were investigated for the capacity and mechanism to promote skin penetration of ibuprofen.
MATERIALS AND METHODS:
Skin permeation studies of ibuprofen across rat abdominal skin with the presence of 3% w/v EOs were carried out; samples were withdrawn from the receptor compartment at 8, 10, 22, 24, 26, 28, 32, 36, and 48 h and analyzed for ibuprofen content by the HPLC method. The mechanisms of penetration enhancement of EOs were further evaluated by attenuated total reflection-Fourier transform infrared spectroscopy (ATR-FTIR) analysis and determination of the properties of EOs. Moreover, the toxicities of EOs on skin cells were also measured.
RESULTS:
The enhancement ratio (ER) values of turpentine, Angelica, chuanxiong, Cyperus, cinnamon, clove oils and azone were determined to be 2.23, 1.83, 2.60, 2.49, 2.63 and 1.97, respectively. Revealed by ATR-FTIR analysis, a linear relationship (r = 0.9045) was found between the ER values and the total of the shift of peak position of SC lipids. Furthermore, the results of HaCaT skin cell toxicity evaluation revealed that the natural EOs possessed relatively lower skin irritation potential.
CONCLUSION:
Compared with azone, the investigated EOs possess significantly higher penetration enhancement effect and lower skin toxicity. EOs can promote the skin permeation of ibuprofen mainly by disturbing rather than extracting the SC lipids.

Cutaneous Penetration Enhancing Effect of Menthol: Calcium Involvement. - PubMed - NCBI

J Pharm Sci. 2017 Apr 8. pii: S0022-3549(17)30229-0. doi: 10.1016/j.xphs.2017.03.041. [Epub ahead of print]
Cutaneous Penetration Enhancing Effect of Menthol: Calcium Involvement.

Joshi A1, Joshi A1, Patel H1, Ponnoth D1, Stagni G2.

Menthol is a naturally occurring terpene used as a penetration enhancer in topical and transdermal formulations. Literature shows a growing interest on menthol's interactions with the Transient-Receptor-Potential (TRPM-8) calcium channel. A decrease in extracellular Ca+2 due to the activation of TRPM-8 channels produces inhibition of E-cadherin expression that is responsible for cell-cell adhesion. Since calcium is present in the entire epidermis, the purpose of this study is to evaluate whether the aforementioned properties of menthol are also related to its penetration-enhancing-effects. We formulated sixteen gels: (i) drug-alone (diphenhydramine or lidocaine), (ii) drug with menthol, (iii) drug, menthol, and calcium channel blocker (verapamil or diltiazem), and (iv) drug and calcium channel blocker (CCB). In-vitro studies showed no effect of the CCB on the release of the drugs either with or without menthol. In-vivo experiments were performed for each drug/menthol/CCB combination gel by applying four formulations on a shaved rabbit's dorsum on the same day. Dermis concentration profiles were assessed with microdialysis. The gels containing menthol showed higher penetration of drugs than those without whereas the addition of the CCB consistently inhibited the penetration-enhancing-effects of menthol. In summary, these findings strongly support the involvement of calcium in the penetration-enhancing-effect of menthol.

 

[haidut]

@haidut

I think I recall you looking at azone in the past. This seems interesting.

Development of essential oils as skin permeation enhancers: penetration enhancement effect and mechanism of action. - PubMed - NCBI

Pharm Biol. 2017 Dec;55(1):1592-1600. doi: 10.1080/13880209.2017.1312464.
Development of essential oils as skin permeation enhancers: penetration enhancement effect and mechanism of action.

Jiang Q1,2, Wu Y1,2, Zhang H2, Liu P1, Yao J2, Yao P2, Chen J1,2, Duan J1.

CONTEXT:
Essential oils (EOs) have shown the potential to reversibly overcome the stratum corneum (SC) barrier to enhance the skin permeation of drugs.
OBJECTIVE:
The effectiveness of turpentine, Angelica, chuanxiong, Cyperus, cinnamon, and clove oils were investigated for the capacity and mechanism to promote skin penetration of ibuprofen.
MATERIALS AND METHODS:
Skin permeation studies of ibuprofen across rat abdominal skin with the presence of 3% w/v EOs were carried out; samples were withdrawn from the receptor compartment at 8, 10, 22, 24, 26, 28, 32, 36, and 48 h and analyzed for ibuprofen content by the HPLC method. The mechanisms of penetration enhancement of EOs were further evaluated by attenuated total reflection-Fourier transform infrared spectroscopy (ATR-FTIR) analysis and determination of the properties of EOs. Moreover, the toxicities of EOs on skin cells were also measured.
RESULTS:
The enhancement ratio (ER) values of turpentine, Angelica, chuanxiong, Cyperus, cinnamon, clove oils and azone were determined to be 2.23, 1.83, 2.60, 2.49, 2.63 and 1.97, respectively. Revealed by ATR-FTIR analysis, a linear relationship (r = 0.9045) was found between the ER values and the total of the shift of peak position of SC lipids. Furthermore, the results of HaCaT skin cell toxicity evaluation revealed that the natural EOs possessed relatively lower skin irritation potential.
CONCLUSION:
Compared with azone, the investigated EOs possess significantly higher penetration enhancement effect and lower skin toxicity. EOs can promote the skin permeation of ibuprofen mainly by disturbing rather than extracting the SC lipids.

Cutaneous Penetration Enhancing Effect of Menthol: Calcium Involvement. - PubMed - NCBI

J Pharm Sci. 2017 Apr 8. pii: S0022-3549(17)30229-0. doi: 10.1016/j.xphs.2017.03.041. [Epub ahead of print]
Cutaneous Penetration Enhancing Effect of Menthol: Calcium Involvement.

Joshi A1, Joshi A1, Patel H1, Ponnoth D1, Stagni G2.

Menthol is a naturally occurring terpene used as a penetration enhancer in topical and transdermal formulations. Literature shows a growing interest on menthol's interactions with the Transient-Receptor-Potential (TRPM-8) calcium channel. A decrease in extracellular Ca+2 due to the activation of TRPM-8 channels produces inhibition of E-cadherin expression that is responsible for cell-cell adhesion. Since calcium is present in the entire epidermis, the purpose of this study is to evaluate whether the aforementioned properties of menthol are also related to its penetration-enhancing-effects. We formulated sixteen gels: (i) drug-alone (diphenhydramine or lidocaine), (ii) drug with menthol, (iii) drug, menthol, and calcium channel blocker (verapamil or diltiazem), and (iv) drug and calcium channel blocker (CCB). In-vitro studies showed no effect of the CCB on the release of the drugs either with or without menthol. In-vivo experiments were performed for each drug/menthol/CCB combination gel by applying four formulations on a shaved rabbit's dorsum on the same day. Dermis concentration profiles were assessed with microdialysis. The gels containing menthol showed higher penetration of drugs than those without whereas the addition of the CCB consistently inhibited the penetration-enhancing-effects of menthol. In summary, these findings strongly support the involvement of calcium in the penetration-enhancing-effect of menthol.

Thanks, I'll look at this.

 

[theLaw]

@haidut,

Not sure which thread to post this on, so here it goes:

Can you comment on the increased body odor that some people experience while using DMSO, and do you think this will subside at any point while still using the solvent?

Thanks!

 

[haidut]

@haidut,

Not sure which thread to post this on, so here it goes:

Can you comment on the increased body odor that some people experience while using DMSO, and do you think this will subside at any point while still using the solvent?

Thanks!

Well, it is well known effect. I doubt it is an issue with the newer formulations of our supplements where the suggested single dose is just a few drops. I think it is an issue when a person is taking 10+ daily and even with those you are getting about as much DMSO as is present in things like cabbage and broccoli. Using with urea or niacinamide seems to inhibit the metabolism of DMSO into odorous derivatives.

 

[theLaw]

Well, it is well known effect. I doubt it is an issue with the newer formulations of our supplements where the suggested single dose is just a few drops. I think it is an issue when a person is taking 10+ daily and even with those you are getting about as much DMSO as is present in things like cabbage and broccoli. Using with urea or niacinamide seems to inhibit the metabolism of DMSO into odorous derivatives.

Thanks @haidut

I'm currently taking 3-4 drops of Tyromix, and only 1-2 drops of Pansterone, but still seem to have the odor issues, although much less than when I was taking much larger doses. I purchased these several months back, so there might be a new formulation with less DMSO available now.

I also take around 250mg of Niacinamide every 2hrs.

It should be noted that my liver health is still improving, but not yet 100%, so not sure if that matters.

Cheers!

 

[TeslaFan]

Tryptophan hydroxylase inhibitor, that also does not inhibit other AADC enzymes

 

[Wagner83]

Thanks @haidut

I'm currently taking 3-4 drops of Tyromix, and only 1-2 drops of Pansterone, but still seem to have the odor issues, although much less than when I was taking much larger doses. I purchased these several months back, so there might be a new formulation with less DMSO available now.

I also take around 250mg of Niacinamide every 2hrs.

It should be noted that my liver health is still improving, but not yet 100%, so not sure if that matters.

Cheers!

Are you sure your body odor is not different and stronger thanks to thyroid and pansterone rather than the dmso itself?

 

[theLaw]

Are you sure your body odor is not different and stronger thanks to thyroid and pansterone rather than the dmso itself?

Yes. I even tried the Idealabs vitamin K-2 sup alone (which contains DMSO), and noticed a similar result with body odor.

My guess is that until the liver is clean and most pufa removed from tissue, body odor might continue to be an issue with products containing DMSO, as they are far more potent than standard sups.

 

[TubZy]

I think you need to make a sticky under the ideal labs section and make the thread title " Under Research" or "Under Development" and have a list of all the current compounds you are looking into right now. You can edit it real time, plus it will allow the community to view what things you may release in the future. This will avoid repeat questions and will also keep the community updated and what you may release.

Also, for the more finalized compounds from your list, you can put an ETA in terms of like planning to be released Q1, Q2 etc. with also a ballpark price of what it may go for. This would both improve repeat questions that you always get about certain substances you are looking to release as well as keeping the community interested and excited for your current products and also future products. As new products get released you can just remove them from the thread.

By having this info public, this will also allow us to help you research stuff further and find studies for certain compounds you are developing (and keeping them all in one thread which seems to be then biggest issue). I know you are working on a bunch of stuff but I have no idea exactly what and when you are planning to release them.

 

[TubZy]

Yes. I even tried the Idealabs vitamin K-2 sup alone (which contains DMSO), and noticed a similar result with body odor.

My guess is that until the liver is clean and most pufa removed from tissue, body odor might continue to be an issue with products containing DMSO, as they are far more potent than standard sups.

Peat said if the liver is not working properly, allergy symptoms increase since you body can't detox properly. This would also be in line with hypothyroidism too.

 

[haidut]

I think you need to make a sticky under the ideal labs section and make the thread title " Under Research" or "Under Development" and have a list of all the current compounds you are looking into right now. You can edit it real time, plus it will allow the community to view what things you may release in the future. This will avoid repeat questions and will also keep the community updated and what you may release.

Also, for the more finalized compounds from your list, you can put an ETA in terms of like planning to be released Q1, Q2 etc. with also a ballpark price of what it may go for. This would both improve repeat questions that you always get about certain substances you are looking to release as well as keeping the community interested and excited for your current products and also future products. As new products get released you can just remove them from the thread.

By having this info public, this will also allow us to help you research stuff further and find studies for certain compounds you are developing (and keeping them all in one thread which seems to be then biggest issue). I know you are working on a bunch of stuff but I have no idea exactly what and when you are planning to release them.

I am actually trying to avoid exactly this setup
The moment I mention there are products in development I get slammed with emails about possible uses, conditions, comparison with other products, etc. Not to mention emails asking to pre-order, get it in the raw material form, and others. Based on personal experience so far I have found it best not to say much until a product is ready to be released because then all the studies have been collected and a thread can be created to point people to instead of asking individual questions. Otherwise, it becomes a bit too much like drug development and of course it signals potential competitors what I am up to
But points taken, I'll see what I can change/do about that.

 

[haidut]

Tryptophan hydroxylase inhibitor, that also does not inhibit other AADC enzymes

Looking into this, but may be tough given the widely successful clinical trials going on with TPH inhibitors and IBS, diabetes, obesity, etc. These drugs are under patent for another 10-15 years and I have to find an unpatented alternative.

 

[japanesedude]

@haidut
Do you have any plan to release testosterone supplements?
If that is possible, it can easily be best selling supplement on idealab.

Once Ray Peat said, 『less than 4 mg/day, I don't think testosterone is harmful.』
for example, 4mg of testosterone Dissolved in tocopherol/MCT or DMSO

testosterone can aromatize quite easily, but There are many Anti estrogenic supplements on Idealab.
so It would be great to stack with Testosterone.

 

[KalosKaiAgathos]

Just received Retinol, Kuinone and Tocovit. Have only tested the previous two.

Nothing from the retinol yet, but my Vit A. in my diet is already high.

Kuinone: 3mg under the tongue for 15 minutes. Higher heartbeat, "heavier" heartbeat, relaxation and well-being. I'm less jittered.

And for some reason I feel my balls.

Two suggestions: As the DMSO seems really really beneficial, and makes your products a lot more economical, I wonder whether it is possible for you to create a vitamin E and/or vitamin A product with DMSO.

I would gladly pay for a mixed tocopherols product derived from soy (that sadly enough does not have all the beneficial impurities of TocoVit), just because it is a lot cheaper in the long run. I know some benefits are lost by not sourcing it from wheat germ oil, but nevertheless, a soy based vitamin E product and a DMSO based Retinol would do wonders. Moreover, such products are not on the market yet.

 

[KalosKaiAgathos]

Well after trying Retinol under the tongue, it seems that it does in fact contain DMSO? It has the same taste as Kuinone. Nevertheless, DMSO is not listed on the ingredient list.