Hives

[emunah]

I'm at loss what to do about my hives. They seem to be chronic right now. I'm really concerned because I know that hives are related to inflammation, and I would want to get rid of excessive inflammation in my body.

I'm a 41 female.

For about two months every evening hives appear on my legs. They appear about 10-11pm, get worse at night. And next day around morning they disappear to come again in the evening. I never suffered from any food allergies in my life, but they seem to be food related. (this is only my intuition, but I stopped eating fish completely as they seemed connected). I'm afraid that they might be related to dairy, as it's currently my staple. I don't know what I would eat if it turned out that I'm allergic to casein. I have no other health problems, I'm energetic, focused, and in a relatively good mood. Sometimes it is difficult for me to fall asleep, but I relate it to my overthinking and too much screen time. Right now I'm taking Doxylamine, as it reduces symptoms, but I don't want to take it too long.

These hives are for me a sign that something is very wrong. I think that at first I thought it's a rash after Amoxyciline, I took in October 2014 after tooth extraction. I also get a rash after ibuprofen, but I took it only for 24h, when the pain was hard.

My intuition is telling me that it's somehow food related, but I have no idea what food can cause it. They also appear mostly in places where there was some kind of pressure, but not only.

I would be very grateful for any suggestions how to get rid of hives.

 

[lindsay]

What does your diet currently include??

I get issues with certain foods - I cannot eat potatoes anymore (unless they are made into french fries), as they lead to what seems like urinary tract infections. White rice is okay, some gluten is okay, but Potatoes = no.

I've more issues since I stopped antibiotics in September - maybe giving yourself a dose of "good" bacteria would help??? If it's food related, it could be that something is lingering in the intestines. My probiotic remedy for food poisoning might help..... Kefir mixed with a little potato starch (which carries the kefir through the lower GI) and mixed with honey. I keep meaning to make it a daily routine, but I don't particularly like Kefir, so.....

 

[emunah]

Thanks for suggestion. :) I was thinking about kefir, but I was not sure if kefir is Peaty. I know that he prefers Greek yogurt to a regular one, because of lactic acid.

My diet currently include: whole milk + sugar, coffee with h&h and sugar, rice cakes, and depends on the day: some grass fed beef with gelatin and some potatoes or rice, or some chicken. From veggies: cucumbers, bell peppers, tomatoes (sometimes as a tomato sauce), white/red onions. Carrots every day. I also ate cottage cheese + honey, but I decided to stop for a few days to see if there is any difference. I don't drink nearly as much OJ as normal Peat protocol says, but I would say a pint a day, and some oranges too, but not every day. I eat one apple a day :)
Some days I eat also ice-cream, but since ice-cream contains eggs, and I suspect eggs too, I don't eat it recently.

Occasionally I eat some GF crackers, but they are with palm oil. (this is my sin :) )

Elimination diet is very tough, as I don't eat gluten, pasta etc.

I stopped also all supplements, because at first I suspected niacimide, and then got freaked out and started to suspect every single supplement. Now I take crystaline Vit C, dissolved in water (I had some very light cold recently). Also I've read it sometimes helps with hives.

 

[Spokey]

Sounds like Steven Johnson Syndrome, which is essentially a toxic reaction to the penicillin family of antibiotics. People suffering from that sometimes experience reactions to ibuprofen too, which you mention provoked the problem again.

 

[HDD]

Estrogen? Maybe there is a pattern with your cycle. I have a friend who has been getting hives for several years now. I gave her some kimchi years ago that I had made and she had an outbreak not long after. She blamed my kimchi which, at the time, I thought was ridiculous. Now, I wonder if her reaction was from the lactic acid in the kimchi? She is perimenopause and still struggles with the hives. There are some posts under urticaria that you might find helpful.

Around the time that menstruation and fertility are ending, certain biological problems are more likely to occur. Between the ages of 50 and 55, about 60% of women expenence repeated episodes o f flushing and sweating. Asthma, migraine, epilepsy, arthritis, varicose veins, aneurysms, urticaria, reduced lung function, hyper- tension, strokes, and interstitial colitis are some of the other problems that often begin or get worse at the menopause, but that normally aren't considered to be causally related to it.

Maybe vitamin E, aspirin, or Progest-e could help?

 

[emunah]

It might be true, although I think it's too early for perimenopause (I'm only 41). Thanks for suggestion. I ordered Progest-E last week, and I'm waiting still for the delivery.

In the meantime: my hives are almost gone! Now, I'm not sure if it's cottage cheese or honey, or both, as I removed both from my diet at the same time. But I'm sure it's not milk. What a relief... I'm going to add some honey next week, to see if it's the culprit.

 

[HDD]

It might be true, although I think it's too early for perimenopause (I'm only 41). Thanks for suggestion. I ordered Progest-E last week, and I'm waiting still for the delivery.

In the meantime: my hives are almost gone! Now, I'm not sure if it's cottage cheese or honey, or both, as I removed both from my diet at the same time. But I'm sure it's not milk. What a relief... I'm going to add some honey next week, to see if it's the culprit.

Glad your hives are disappearing, emunah. My niece used to get hives in cold weather. Very strange. I wasn't implying you were menopausal but estrogen in general being the cause. I went through early menopause in my early 40's. I wish I had known about Progest-e then to delay it.

 

[lindsay]

Thanks for suggestion. :) I was thinking about kefir, but I was not sure if kefir is Peaty. I know that he prefers Greek yogurt to a regular one, because of lactic acid.

My diet currently include: whole milk + sugar, coffee with h&h and sugar, rice cakes, and depends on the day: some grass fed beef with gelatin and some potatoes or rice, or some chicken. From veggies: cucumbers, bell peppers, tomatoes (sometimes as a tomato sauce), white/red onions. Carrots every day. I also ate cottage cheese + honey, but I decided to stop for a few days to see if there is any difference. I don't drink nearly as much OJ as normal Peat protocol says, but I would say a pint a day, and some oranges too, but not every day. I eat one apple a day :)
Some days I eat also ice-cream, but since ice-cream contains eggs, and I suspect eggs too, I don't eat it recently.

Occasionally I eat some GF crackers, but they are with palm oil. (this is my sin :) )

Elimination diet is very tough, as I don't eat gluten, pasta etc.

I stopped also all supplements, because at first I suspected niacimide, and then got freaked out and started to suspect every single supplement. Now I take crystaline Vit C, dissolved in water (I had some very light cold recently). Also I've read it sometimes helps with hives.

Kefir is not Peaty, but he bases that on his theories about lactic acid and a hypothyroid reactions to Kefir he had at one point in his life. Not all Kefir is equal, IMO. I really like the Siggi's vanilla kefir. It's not quite as strong and fermented smelling as the plain stuff (which I used to make my sourdough bread - it's VERY active). You don't need much to make a probiotic (and you can use raw milk instead, if you have access to some - there just needs to be some dairy bacteria). Just mix a tbsp. or so of raw potato starch (I use Bob's Redmill) into about 1/2 cup of Kefir or raw milk and add a tbsp. or so of honey. Mix real well and eat once or twice per day. Don't think of it as a calorie or protein source, because basically what happens is the potato starch carries the good bacteria through the gut into the lower GI (since it's resistant starch) and it just passes through, since it's not digestible. I got food poisoning from a raw egg in salad dressing that had gone bad and this helped me feel back to normal within a couple days. I went from having stabbing pains in my gut to feeling great.

Also, when I eat lots of starch, I get issues like eczema on my eyelids (kind of like hives, but not totally). Not to pick on your food choices (which look pretty good), but nightshades can be problematic for some people - you might want to look at going without the peppers and the tomatoes.

Additionally, check your cottage cheese. I had issues with most of them, so I gave up trying to eat cottage cheese. Most brands have carrageenan in them, or other gums/additives that can be irritants.

 

[jyb]

Kefir is not Peaty, but he bases that on his theories about lactic acid and a hypothyroid reactions to Kefir he had at one point in his life.

Kefir produces more lactic acid, and since Peat consider racemic (bacteria) lactic acid to be more problematic, he prefers the less acidic yogurts. He said the bacteria themselves can be good in some situations, so from that perspective I guess kefir seems good. Have you tried straining your kefir to remove the lactic acid? I never tried. I have mixed feelings towards kefir based on my experience. I'd be curious to experiment with the strained version and compare, however I fear that it would be too much work for not much more than what I already get from good milk in terms of nutrition generally. I guess I need to look for testimonials on this forum about those who make their own Greek yogurt, see how much time it takes in the kitchen.

 

[HDD]

I guess I need to look for testimonials on this forum about those who make their own Greek yogurt, see how much time it takes in the kitchen

I just made some from raw milk this past week using a combination of these two recipes. It was easy and turned out great. 2 cups of milk made about 1 cup of Greek yogurt. It was a pretty simple quick process.


http://wholelifestylenutrition.com/reci ... aw-yogurt/

http://www.salad-in-a-jar.com/family-re ... g-raw-milk

 

[lindsay]

Kefir produces more lactic acid, and since Peat consider racemic (bacteria) lactic acid to be more problematic, he prefers the less acidic yogurts. He said the bacteria themselves can be good in some situations, so from that perspective I guess kefir seems good. Have you tried straining your kefir to remove the lactic acid? I never tried. I have mixed feelings towards kefir based on my experience. I'd be curious to experiment with the strained version and compare, however I fear that it would be too much work for not much more than what I already get from good milk in terms of nutrition generally. I guess I need to look for testimonials on this forum about those who make their own Greek yogurt, see how much time it takes in the kitchen.

I think the potency of Kefir varies from brand to brand. I lived in Russia for a year and Russians LOVE kefir. They have a natural remedy for everything - raw garlic is another such remedy. Personally, I hate Kefir - but then it worked magic following food poisoning. It's not something I would eat daily, and it's bacterial component is pretty much useless if you don't eat it with resistant starch, because the bacteria will likely not survive the small intestine.

Personally, I don't really love any fermented dairy product except for hard cheeses (or soft ones like brie). Most of the brands of yogurt and cottage cheese make me feel bloated after eating them. But if I had a bacterial issue (like food poisoning) and wanted to displace bad bacteria in the gut, the kefir/potato starch/honey really works. You could also make the same concoction with raw milk (because it also has "good" bacteria).

Regarding straining Kefir, I've separated it before to remove the whey so I could make a sourdough from the whey. But I've never actually strained it. If I were opting for something yogurt-like, I would probably try to make it myself. Homemade cottage cheese, for instance, is totally different from what you get at the store. I really love Russian cottage cheese, but it's not available in the US unless you live near a special grocery - it's really dry cottage cheese. More like quark.

 

[jyb]

I think the potency of Kefir varies from brand to brand. I lived in Russia for a year and Russians LOVE kefir. They have a natural remedy for everything - raw garlic is another such remedy. Personally, I hate Kefir - but then it worked magic following food poisoning. It's not something I would eat daily, and it's bacterial component is pretty much useless if you don't eat it with resistant starch, because the bacteria will likely not survive the small intestine.

How do you know? The studies I've read that look at the effect of kefir don't seem to emphasise they used that in the patients, unless I missed it. Of course most of the bacteria could die in the stomach, but that doesn't mean some don't go through. Kefir has many bacteria. Also, the anti-inflammatory effect of bacteria persist after they die (cf last KDUM interview of Ray). However, it's possible that eating that starch in addition does increase the count.

 

[lindsay]

How do you know? The studies I've read that look at the effect of kefir don't seem to emphasise they used that in the patients, unless I missed it. Of course most of the bacteria could die in the stomach, but that doesn't mean some don't go through. Kefir has many bacteria. Also, the anti-inflammatory effect of bacteria persist after they die (cf last KDUM interview of Ray). However, it's possible that eating that starch in addition does increase the count.

I don't know. At least, not by reading studies (which I find somewhat useless in comparison to how something makes me feel). However, that being said, I think the whole concept of probiotics is that you have to have so many billion organisms so that SOME can survive and make it to the lower GI. Because most will not (unless, of course, you have SIBO). As I said, Raw milk can also be used, as it has many "unfermented" bacteria. But I still do not understand RP's logic on lactic acid because most dairy products are made via lactic acid - cheese is a good example. Muscles producing lactic acid = bad. Eating something with lactic acid???? well then dairy is out of the question as a food source, since most dairy products which are fermented (a.k.a. cheese) contain lactic acid. And maybe it happens that the lactic acid eat bad stuff up during digestion? There are many civilizations that thrive on fermented dairy.

 

[jyb]

As I said, Raw milk can also be used, as it has many "unfermented" bacteria. But I still do not understand RP's logic on lactic acid because most dairy products are made via lactic acid - cheese is a good example.

Cheese or normal raw milk stored in the fridge hardly has any lactic acid compared to acidic products like kefir. Raw milk will ferment after a while and turn sour, but only after a long time, not if you store in the fridge and consume within a few weeks. RP think the harm comes when the quantity of lactic acid is too great. As you say some culture use kefir and seem fine. But I think it doesn't prove that its healthy. It could also be that lactic acid doesn't harm much compare to other things, and culture are just using it as a way to preserve milk for longer.

 

[lindsay]

Cheese or normal raw milk stored in the fridge hardly has any lactic acid compared to acidic products like kefir. Raw milk will ferment after a while and turn sour, but only after a long time, not if you store in the fridge and consume within a few weeks. RP think the harm comes when the quantity of lactic acid is too great. As you say some culture use kefir and seem fine. But I think it doesn't prove that its healthy. It could also be that lactic acid doesn't harm much compare to other things, and culture are just using it as a way to preserve milk for longer.

Yes, this may be true, but I've made my own cottage cheese from raw milk before and the process is basically that you let milk ferment out on the counter in a bowl for a few days, which causes it to go sour and separates the curds from the whey (also reducing calcium content), and then you strain the curds. Also, hard cheeses are fermented and contain a good amount of K2, which is one of the reasons why I think fermented dairy is good - maybe they allow your gut micro biome to produce K2? I don't know (maybe there are studies), but after I had my appendectomy and was taking antibiotics, my cravings for cheese and things like frozen yogurt and ricotta were crazy. It was all I wanted to eat for about 2 months - and I'm still getting cheese cravings. I think that when your muscles are producing lactic acid as a sign of low metabolism, this is obviously not good. But a natural breakdown of food is different. So many cultures across the globe (and healthy ones that are not obese), eat fermented foods. If a healthy gut is the key to good health, maybe we should be investigating this more - a germ free environment is impossible if you don't want to live in a bubble, so if there is such a thing as good bacteria, I think it's something worth consuming regularly, in addition to eating antibiotic foods (like carrot and garlic).

Also, when I lived in Russia, I ate fermented foods a lot more often and my digestion was much better than it is now. One popular salad there is a fermented carrot and garlic salad (it's called Korean carrot salad, actually). Talk about a potent antibiotic.

 

[emunah]

My hives are almost down to zero, I've checked if they are connected with honey, and yes, I got burning hives after eating one tablespoon of raw honey. I never had issue with honey before, and so maybe it's this particular kind of honey, I don't know. I didn't reintroduce cheese to my diet, it's another suspect. I'm so happy that it's not milk. I suspect it might be Vit A palmitate that is added to the cottage cheese I ate. It doesn't have carrageenan, at least not listed.

 

[4peatssake]

My hives are almost down to zero, I've checked if they are connected with honey, and yes, I got burning hives after eating one tablespoon of raw honey. I never had issue with honey before, and so maybe it's this particular kind of honey, I don't know. I didn't reintroduce cheese to my diet, it's another suspect. I'm so happy that it's not milk. I suspect it might be Vit A palmitate that is added to the cottage cheese I ate. It doesn't have carrageenan, at least not listed.

Great news!

And congratulations for doing the work to eliminate the culprit(s). It can be tedious, not to mention quite confusing, trying to figure such things out. :?

 

[tara]

Congratulations on sorting it.

I think it is possible to react to some honeys and not others because the bees browse different flowers. You might be allergic to something the bees were browsing.
Apiarists have to keep their productive hives away from areas where some particularly toxic plants are flowering. I can't remember the plant, but I read a case of a family being poisoned a few years ago by eating such honey.

 

[docall18]

I have been getting hives all my life, usually 3 or 4 times a year. Never knew what caused it, only sugary foods were related to outbreaks.

The last couple of years i have found that the cause of my hives appears to be low cortisol.

When my cortisol is low anything that lowers it further causes allergies. Things like 7-keto Dhea, sugary foods, OJ, Magnesium can all cause me to break out.

 

[skycop00]

Interesting about the low cortisol. I would think that the levels of stress both internal and external would have to be at the core of that. I mean the adrenal glands are end stage tissue that just respond to the stimulus fed them. Assuming that there is enough raw material to make cortisol shouldn't we have enough to combat most problems..? When I was young I could multitask and I felt like I was superman much of the time. People would always ask..."How can you do all that"...I would just smile and say..."I really don't know". Then at about 35 years old I noticed a sharp decline how I responded to the drop in mental and physical performance. Some would say ADRENAL FATIGUE...Pregnenolone Steal...but I am not so sure I believe those terms. Seems to me I just ran out of enough resources and the tank was emptying. Now that I look back.... it was right when I went low carb and got super lean. HUGE MISTAKE...!!!