Help with understanding Pfizer report: Accumulation of vaccine in ovaries

[sibyloftherhine]

According to this report from Pfizer, the vaccine accumulates in ovaries:

What I need help with understanding, however, is what exactly is it that accumulates? Is it the simply the vaccine itself, the mRNA, the spike proteins, or something else entirely?

 

[Lollipop2]

According to this report from Pfizer, the vaccine accumulates in ovaries:
View attachment 26254

What I need help with understanding, however, is what exactly is it that accumulates? Is it the simply the vaccine itself, the mRNA, the spike proteins, or something else entirely?

Based on the Japanese tests and research it is the spike proteins that are accumulating due to a protein affinity with the ovaries.

 

[sibyloftherhine]

Based on the Japanese tests and research it is the spike proteins that are accumulating due to a protein affinity with the ovaries.

Thank you so much!

 

[Lollipop2]

Thank you so much!

You are welcome

 

[Peater Piper]

For clarity, they tracked the LNPs. Whether the mRNA was still viable at that point is another question. Given the low temperatures the vaccines need to be stored at and the warmth of the human body, I'd personally be surprised if any mRNA is still viable more than a few hours post-injection.

 

[Lollipop2]

For clarity, they tracked the LNPs. Whether the mRNA was still viable at that point is another question. Given the low temperatures the vaccines need to be stored at and the warmth of the human body, I'd personally be surprised if any mRNA is still viable more than a few hours post-injection.

That would be amazing if true. Do you have a reference resource for this?

 

[Peater Piper]

That would be amazing if true. Do you have a reference resource for this?

I'm just working from the information that's available. The mRNA is delicate, which is the reason for all of the handling instructions and extreme cold required during storage and transport. They did eventually say that an opened vial will be good at room temperature for up to 12 hours. Maybe that's a very conservative estimate, but it's hard to imagine anything will still be viable at the temperature of the human body after 48 hours. The reason I posted is because I've seen that image misrepresented as a measure of spike protein accumulation. That's only going to be true if the LNPs are successfully transporting viable mRNA into the cells at those sites at those time periods. I don't know if there's any information available showing how long the mRNA is viable for after injection, it would obviously be good to know. What is absolutely true is that spike proteins are reaching the blood stream and measurable for up to two weeks after the first injection (and for a shorter time frame after the second injection). That still creates some risk, though less so than if the organs are producing spike proteins and then being attacked by the immune system. One hypothesis I read that makes sense is that some injections may be hitting blood vessels, which will immediately put viable mRNA directly into circulation. That could lead to very different results from an injection that goes into the muscle and slowly circulates through the lymphatic system, with only small amounts ending up in circulation well after the time of injection.

I was personally waiting on Novavax, given the prospect that vaccines may become mandatory, or at least required for many things, in the near future. It bypasses the requirement for the cells to create the S-protein and it only uses a small amount of protein. However, it doesn't appear it will be available where I am any time soon.

 

[Lollipop2]

I'm just working from the information that's available. The mRNA is delicate, which is the reason for all of the handling instructions and extreme cold required during storage and transport. They did eventually say that an opened vial will be good at room temperature for up to 12 hours. Maybe that's a very conservative estimate, but it's hard to imagine anything will still be viable at the temperature of the human body after 48 hours. The reason I posted is because I've seen that image misrepresented as a measure of spike protein accumulation. That's only going to be true if the LNPs are successfully transporting viable mRNA into the cells at those sites at those time periods. I don't know if there's any information available showing how long the mRNA is viable for after injection, it would obviously be good to know. What is absolutely true is that spike proteins are reaching the blood stream and measurable for up to two weeks after the first injection (and for a shorter time frame after the second injection). That still creates some risk, though less so than if the organs are producing spike proteins and then being attacked by the immune system. One hypothesis I read that makes sense is that some injections may be hitting blood vessels, which will immediately put viable mRNA directly into circulation. That could lead to very different results from an injection that goes into the muscle and slowly circulates through the lymphatic system, with only small amounts ending up in circulation well after the time of injection.

I was personally waiting on Novavax, given the prospect that vaccines may become mandatory, or at least required for many things, in the near future. It bypasses the requirement for the cells to create the S-protein and it only uses a small amount of protein. However, it doesn't appear it will be available where I am any time soon.

Your explanation makes sense. I think the big question is how long do those spikes last in the body BUT also when does your body start the never ending production of the spike? AND the other big theme is exactly where does the spike go?

 

[sibyloftherhine]

Your explanation makes sense. I think the big question is how long do those spikes last in the body BUT also when does your body start the never ending production of the spike? AND the other big theme is exactly where does the spike go?

According to the first post-mortem study of someone who received the mRNA vaccine:

Postmortem molecular mapping by real-time polymerase chain reaction revealed relevant SARS-CoV-2 cycle threshold values in all organs examined (oropharynx, olfactory mucosa, trachea, lungs, heart, kidney and cerebrum) except for the liver and olfactory bulb.

He died 4 weeks after receiving the vaccine, so the spikes last at least that long.

 

[sibyloftherhine]

I was personally waiting on Novavax, given the prospect that vaccines may become mandatory, or at least required for many things, in the near future. It bypasses the requirement for the cells to create the S-protein and it only uses a small amount of protein. However, it doesn't appear it will be available where I am any time soon.

As far as I know, Novavax introduces spike proteins as well, although it doesn't introduce the genetic material to make your cells produce them. This would make it less invasive than the mRNA and viral vector vaccines, but I'd still think that the inactivated virus vaccines (i.e. Sinovac, Sinopharm, Bharat Biotech) are the best option. The only danger would be their aluminum adjuvants.

 

[Mito]

I don't know if there's any information available showing how long the mRNA is viable for after injection, it would obviously be good to know.

Claims are that mRNA can last a few days in the body before it’s degraded. Spike proteins last a few weeks similar to other proteins in the body.

How long do mRNA and spike proteins last in the body?

Here we break down the data to show where mRNA vaccines (and spike proteins) travel in the body. There is no evidence that any mRNA or protein accumulates in any organ.

www.nebraskamed.com

 

[Peater Piper]

Claims are that mRNA can last a few days in the body before it’s degraded. Spike proteins last a few weeks similar to other proteins in the body.

How long do mRNA and spike proteins last in the body?

Here we break down the data to show where mRNA vaccines (and spike proteins) travel in the body. There is no evidence that any mRNA or protein accumulates in any organ.

www.nebraskamed.com

It would be nice to have a firmer answer, through autopsy or some other means. There's studies showing mRNA will degrade within 10-15 minutes under normal circumstances, but the lipid nanoparticles increase stability, so it's hard to say.

As far as I know, Novavax introduces spike proteins as well, although it doesn't introduce the genetic material to make your cells produce them. This would make it less invasive than the mRNA and viral vector vaccines, but I'd still think that the inactivated virus vaccines (i.e. Sinovac, Sinopharm, Bharat Biotech) are the best option. The only danger would be their aluminum adjuvants.

I like Novavax for three reasons. 1. A strong adjuvant means fewer spike proteins needed to induce a meaningful immune response, 2. it had fewer side effects in clinical trials than the experimental vaccines while having high efficacy, and 3. it's not relying on our cells to produce the proteins. In the USA, all we have are mRNA and viral vectors to choose from, so it would have been the choice by default. I'm sure the inactivated vaccines are fine, but they won't be available here for years, if ever. However, Novavax keeps pushing their timeline back. They just announced that they won't request approval from the FDA until the 4th qtr. Meanwhile, the FDA appears to be nearing approval for Pfizer. Once that's granted, there's likely going to be a strong push for mandatory vaccination across the country. It just doesn't make sense when our government is ostensibly trying to get a shot in every arm. If that were the case, then it would behoove them to have as many options available as possible. While I'm sure there's some people who will eschew all vaccines, there must be a decent contingent of people who simply want something more traditional, whether it's due to long term safety concerns, autoimmune issues, or adverse reactions to the first injection.

 

[Mito]

I like Novavax for three reasons. 1. A strong adjuvant means fewer spike proteins needed to induce a meaningful immune response,

What is your concern with the spike proteins the body generates from the mRNA vaccines? My understanding is that is it not the same as the spike protein on the SARS-CoV-2 virus. The mRNA generated spike has two stabilizing proline mutations in S2 portion of the spike so it won’t bind to ACE2 like the virus spike does.

 

[Peater Piper]

What is your concern with the spike proteins the body generates from the mRNA vaccines? My understanding is that is it not the same as the spike protein on the SARS-CoV-2 virus. The mRNA generated spike has two stabilizing proline mutations in S2 portion of the spike so it won’t bind to ACE2 like the virus spike does.

My understanding is that some of the spike proteins are getting cleaved, either through enzymes or destruction of the expressing cells by T-cells, allowing them to enter circulation. It's just hard to know what's the truth. Nearly my entire immediate and extended family has received either the Moderna or Pfizer vaccines, and none experienced more than minor symptoms for a few days.

 

[Mauritio]

According to this report from Pfizer, the vaccine accumulates in ovaries:
View attachment 26254

What I need help with understanding, however, is what exactly is it that accumulates? Is it the simply the vaccine itself, the mRNA, the spike proteins, or something else entirely?

How do we even know what a significant/ averagely harmful concentration of the spike proteon is?

Im sure no concentration is healthy, but as always :" The dosage ,makes the poison"

If one gets any kind of (corona) virus , shouldn't their spike protein also accumulate in the females ovaries?