Glucocorticoids Antagonize Estrogens By Activation Of Estrogen Sulfotransferase

[Lokzo]

Glucocorticoids Antagonize Estrogens by Glucocorticoid Receptor–Mediated Activation of Estrogen Sulfotransferase

 

[lampofred]

Yeah it is more antiestrogenic to have your stress hormones going in the direction of cortisol (via sensory deprivation) than in the direction of prolactin. But having neither because of high preg and prog is obviously the ideal.

 

[haidut]

Glucocorticoids Antagonize Estrogens by Glucocorticoid Receptor–Mediated Activation of Estrogen Sulfotransferase

Are you familiar with Cushing syndrome? Do you know what one of the common signs of it is in males? Gynecomastia. Do you know what causes gynecomastia in males? Estrogen/Prolactin. So, elevated cortisol leads to gyno in males.
Also, how can cortisol lower estrogen when it increases aromatase activity in fatty tissue and stimulates prolactin synthesis directly at the pituitaty level? The same phenotype is visible in people with diabetes II (also driven by cortisol/stress) - obesity, high cortisol, low androgens, high estrogen, high prolactin, etc.

What's up with this forum lately? People asking what supplement would inhibit lipolysis, others claiming low serotonin would cause depression, and now we have cortisol lowering estrogen...

Well, if you want to test it, ask your doctor for a Medrol pack, check your prolactin, then take it for say 10 days and then check your prolactin again. See if you like the results.

 

[lampofred]

Are you familiar with Cushing syndrome? Do you know what one of the common signs of it is in males? Gynecomastia. Do you know what causes gynecomastia in males? Estrogen/Prolactin. So, elevated cortisol leads to gyno in males.
Also, how can cortisol lower estrogen when it increases aromatase activity in fatty tissue and stimulates prolactin synthesis directly at the pituitaty level? The same phenotype is visible in people with diabetes II (also driven by cortisol/stress) - obesity, high cortisol, low androgens, high estrogen, high prolactin, etc.

What's up with this forum lately? People asking what supplement would inhibit lipolysis, others claiming low serotonin would cause depression, and now we have cortisol lowering estrogen...

Well, if you want to test it, ask your doctor for a Medrol pack, check your prolactin, then take it for say 10 days and then check your prolactin again. See if you like the results.

I think cortisol is anti inflammatory and can be anti estrogenic in that way. It's like how even though drinking alcohol will lower cortisol, it will still be very estrogenic because it's shifting the stress hormone balanced to increased prolactin. But I agree that if person A and person B have the same levels of prolactin, then the one with lower cortisol will have lower estrogen.

 

[haidut]

It's like how even though drinking alcohol will lower cortisol

Only for the first 30-60 minutes or so and ONLY if you have enough glycogen. After that, when hypoglycemia sets in and alcohol powerfully raises cortisol. And in alcoholics, drinking only raises cortisol and that's actually a major factor of the pathology - the high cortisol keeps them drinking even more and while alcohol was helpful at first it really exacerbates the cortisol response in "addicts".
Yeah, I agree that in somebody in good health a robust acute rise in cortisol can keep estrogen at bay simply by being a more robust stress mediator and anti-inflammatory agent. But chronic cortisol elevation is nothing if not an estrogen promoter.

 

[Frankdee20]

Only for the first 30-60 minutes or so and ONLY if you have enough glycogen. After that, when hypoglycemia sets in and alcohol powerfully raises cortisol. And in alcoholics, drinking only raises cortisol and that's actually a major factor of the pathology - the high cortisol keeps them drinking even more and while alcohol was helpful at first it really exacerbates the cortisol response in "addicts".
Yeah, I agree that in somebody in good health a robust acute rise in cortisol can keep estrogen at bay simply by being a more robust stress mediator and anti-inflammatory agent. But chronic cortisol elevation is nothing if not an estrogen promoter.

So could my chronic drinking be from low baseline cortisol ? Then drinking raises it in the long run ?

 

[MatheusPN]

Haidut said: "What's up with this forum lately? People asking what supplement would inhibit lipolysis, others claiming low serotonin would cause depression, and now we have cortisol lowering estrogen..."

Exactly what I was thinking lately. First I thought to be the larger population and that people didn't read/ considerate Ray thoughts/ affirmations, now it seems to be worse than that; an offensive, mostly coming from one same group
@Wagner83 is now only seen in private conversations, that is a strong alert
Recently, something or some even insult, offend Ray!

@Blossom @charlie

 

[MatheusPN]

So could my chronic drinking be from low baseline cortisol ? Then drinking raises it in the long run ?

The quick answer is in the quote that you made from haidut:
"...the high cortisol keeps them drinking even more and while alcohol was helpful at first it really exacerbates the cortisol response in "addicts"..."

 

[CLASH]

Currently on the ray peat forum:

-estrogen is beneficial when on TRT, dont try to lower it

-cortisol apparently lowers estrogen

-saturated fat causes endotoxemia, bacterial translocation and disease

-lowering calories is a good way to lose weight

-fasting is a good idea for longevity

-higher fat diets are beneficial (I promote this based on my experience, just being honest. Although I’m a fan of high sugar with the high fat, so not the keto/ low carb BS)

-dairy can cause issues due to opiate peptides and hormones (I have promoted this as well )

-probiotics are good (I promoted this for a few weeks recently, but tested out the probiotics and had to eat my words lol....)

*I’m only stating what I have promoted that can be construed somewhat as out of the peat sphere to provide full transparency.

 

[Regina]

Currently on the ray peat forum:

-estrogen is beneficial when on TRT, dont try to lower it

-cortisol apparently lowers estrogen

-saturated fat causes endotoxemia, bacterial translocation and disease

-lowering calories is a good way to lose weight

-fasting is a good idea for longevity

-higher fat diets are beneficial (I promote this based on my experience, just being honest. Although I’m a fan of high sugar with the high fat, so not the keto/ low carb BS)

-dairy can cause issues due to opiate peptides and hormones (I have promoted this as well )

-probiotics are good (I promoted this for a few weeks recently, but tested out the probiotics and had to eat my words lol....)

*I’m only stating what I have promoted that can be construed somewhat as out of the peat sphere to provide full transparency.

Yep. It makes mining for the gold more arduous. It's partially why I don't post so much anymore. I don't want to clog the already trolled ('Ray Peat is a smart guy but he's totally wrong about sugar, estrogen, blah blah blah'....) in threads.

 

[LeeLemonoil]

Besides I suspect that the authors premise from the OPs study is reductionist at best. Sulfotated (sulfated?) estrogens might be unable to activate the nuclear ER directly but will definitely have physiological effects, just like the sulfotated androgens. The conjugated estrogens will thus induce some other cellular signal cascades and effects in the context of the cortidolic stress response and I doubt it is a protective/beneficial one.

 

[LeeLemonoil]

Also, what happens in those breast cancer cells when chronically exposed to cortisol? Will the sulfotransferases not at some point be exhausted / no longer produced? Will that cause a rapid worsening then: estrogen reins freely on the ERs and the cell is additionally an a high cortidolic/ tissue destructive and inflammatory state .., and and and. No, the study lights an important aspect of cancerous cell mechanisms but doesn’t explain any long term effects or contradicts what is known about the relationship of cortisol and estrogens

 

[Blossom]

Haidut said: "What's up with this forum lately? People asking what supplement would inhibit lipolysis, others claiming low serotonin would cause depression, and now we have cortisol lowering estrogen..."

Exactly what I was thinking lately. First I thought to be the larger population and that people didn't read/ considerate Ray thoughts/ affirmations, now it seems to be worse than that; an offensive, mostly coming from one same group
@Wagner83 is now only seen in private conversations, that is a strong alert
Recently, something or some even insult, offend Ray!

@Blossom @charlie

Thanks for the alert! I’ll talk to charlie. Anyone who comes across an insulting post towards Ray or just plain insulting in general please, please report it! I’ve been much busier recently.

 

[charlie]

Exactly what I was thinking lately. First I thought to be the larger population and that people didn't read/ considerate Ray thoughts/ affirmations, now it seems to be worse than that; an offensive, mostly coming from one same group

If you see what you think is someone from that group then please hit the report button so we can take a look at it. It only takes a few seconds to report it and helps us out greatly if more eyes are looking.

 

[Rand56]

-estrogen is beneficial when on TRT, dont try to lower it

If anyone is familiar with the YouTube channel TOT Revolution, quite often they have a roundtable of progressive TRT doctors on, and they believe exactly this, they let the E rise along with the T when they put their patients on TRT. Their patients fare way better when they dont take an AI. I've heard them say only rarely do they give someone an AI, and if they do, it's only a micro dose and for only a short amount of time.

I think it's important to understand, that these docs have years of experience with patients, and I think their word means more than what you may hear otherwise about the benefits of taking AI's while on TRT.

 

[CLASH]

@Rand56
I have seen the TOT revolution stuff only briefly in passing. I have seen Jay campbell more in depth tho (one of the main guys behind the round table if I’m not mistaken) and I think personally he doesnt know what hes talking about in regards to health. From what I recall the guy recommends fasting something like 3 days a week for 24 hour periods, while exercising on the days that you do eat, just for weight loss. He also recomends using testosterone, thyroid, adrenergic drugs all while maintaining a diet of lean meats and vegetables. His advice is contradictory at best. He insults people and curses them out on multiple social media platforms. He cant sit still in interviews or podcasts, almost as if he is on a powerful stimulant and he posts often about his “high level of spirituality”. He claims he got low T because he got hit in the nuts by a basketball one time, I find this suspect. I doubt one time getting hit in the nuts requires you to take testosterone for life. He also applies testosteron gel in highish doses by peat standards to his scrotum directly. If there was a way to completely shut down your endogenous production, this would probably be the best way to do it. He takes metformin for life extension, without even having diabetes.... He also seems to reccomend younger guys go on testosterone, I think this is ridiculous. 20 and 30 year old guys dont need TRT, they need to fix thier lifestyle. The question is why is the T low in the first place, not “oh its low, ok, heres some exogenous t”. All the studies that show that low T is associated with all these diseases, dont neccesarily imply that the low t itself is causing the disease. Its more likely that the factors that are causing the body to be low t are early signs of disease manifestation. Supplementing endogenous T, is a bandaid solution at best that may mask the problem going into the future. Furthermore, he recommends using HCG while on T, if i recall correctly, to allow guys to have kids. From what I have read, and from what I have heard from Peat this sounds like a terrible idea. HCG is associated with quite a few cancers.

I dont doubt that AI’s cause trouble and make guys feel worse. I have frequented bodybuilding forums to see how different drugs effect people (bodybuilders test alot of interesting things out on themselves) and its commonly known low estrogen wipes guys out just as much as high estrogen. If a guy has low T, theres a reason his T is low. Obviously the bodies environment is not in a state to produce adequate T. Its not a surprise that giving exogenous T then increases estrogen in these guys, theres most likely some pathology occuring underneath. Theres a reason thier bodies are aromatizing the T and not pushing it in other pathways.

Overall, just because these guys found out that AI’s cause a bunch of issues, doesnt in my mind, lend me to believe that they know what thier doing. I think thier paradigm is shaky from its roots. Another bandaid pharma approach. If you think about this from the globalist point of view it makes sense to get a bunch of guys on TRT, you can control them easy by controlling the drug supply, you can also control if they have children or not by controlling the drug supply (this is tangential conspiracy theory BS though lol, just think its an interesting thought).

I dont know about the rest of the guys on TOT revolution but from what I understand Jay Campbell is one of the main guys and I dont think he knows what he’s doing in regard to health.

 

[Rand56]

@Rand56
I have seen the TOT revolution stuff only briefly in passing. I have seen Jay campbell more in depth tho (one of the main guys behind the round table if I’m not mistaken) and I think personally he doesnt know what hes talking about in regards to health. From what I recall the guy recommends fasting something like 3 days a week for 24 hour periods, while exercising on the days that you do eat, just for weight loss. He also recomends using testosterone, thyroid, adrenergic drugs all while maintaining a diet of lean meats and vegetables. His advice is contradictory at best. He insults people and curses them out on multiple social media platforms. He cant sit still in interviews or podcasts, almost as if he is on a powerful stimulant and he posts often about his “high level of spirituality”. He claims he got low T because he got hit in the nuts by a basketball one time, I find this suspect. I doubt one time getting hit in the nuts requires you to take testosterone for life. He also applies testosteron gel in highish doses by peat standards to his scrotum directly. If there was a way to completely shut down your endogenous production, this would probably be the best way to do it. He takes metformin for life extension, without even having diabetes.... He also seems to reccomend younger guys go on testosterone, I think this is ridiculous. 20 and 30 year old guys dont need TRT, they need to fix thier lifestyle. The question is why is the T low in the first place, not “oh its low, ok, heres some exogenous t”. All the studies that show that low T is associated with all these diseases, dont neccesarily imply that the low t itself is causing the disease. Its more likely that the factors that are causing the body to be low t are early signs of disease manifestation. Supplementing endogenous T, is a bandaid solution at best that may mask the problem going into the future. Furthermore, he recommends using HCG while on T, if i recall correctly, to allow guys to have kids. From what I have read, and from what I have heard from Peat this sounds like a terrible idea. HCG is associated with quite a few cancers.

I dont doubt that AI’s cause trouble and make guys feel worse. I have frequented bodybuilding forums to see how different drugs effect people (bodybuilders test alot of interesting things out on themselves) and its commonly known low estrogen wipes guys out just as much as high estrogen. If a guy has low T, theres a reason his T is low. Obviously the bodies environment is not in a state to produce adequate T. Its not a surprise that giving exogenous T then increases estrogen in these guys, theres most likely some pathology occuring underneath. Theres a reason thier bodies are aromatizing the T and not pushing it in other pathways.

Overall, just because these guys found out that AI’s cause a bunch of issues, doesnt in my mind, lend me to believe that they know what thier doing. I think thier paradigm is shaky from its roots. Another bandaid pharma approach. If you think about this from the globalist point of view it makes sense to get a bunch of guys on TRT, you can control them easy by controlling the drug supply, you can also control if they have children or not by controlling the drug supply (this is tangential conspiracy theory BS though lol, just think its an interesting thought).

I dont know about the rest of the guys on TOT revolution but from what I understand Jay Campbell is one of the main guys and I dont think he knows what he’s doing in regard to health.

I hear what you're saying about Jay Campbell, he does seem like he is a blowhard at times, but the viewpoints of these experienced progressive TRT docs, is the biggest takeaway for me. I don't see how anyone can dismiss their viewpoints, they have years of experience with their patients. Now I'm not on TRT, but I have had bad experiences with both Arimidex and Exemestane.

 

[CLASH]

@Rand56
I’m not dismissing thier experiences. I’m dismissing the idea of giving young guys TRT, theres has to be a reason thier Testosterone is low. I’m also dismissing Jay campbell lol.

 

[MatheusPN]

Hi, @charlie and @Blossom , I've summoned you more to alert about the situation. In relation to people insulting Ray, if someone didn’t intervene then I did and they ceased insults, if they had continued, I would alert. Now that I know you would like and would be beneficial, I will report. Thanks Blossom and Charlie!

An idea to mitigate attacks and misinformation

Create an anti-peat subforum, where mainly, studies and hypotheses repeated and "unpeaty", that have previously been here: solved, clarified and that have been shown to be incorrect or frail. Be moved there.
If you will put something "anti-peat" in the main forum, then that be something well-founded and not yet clarified, cleared up

What kind of ideas would be moved there? These: Estrogen inhibits the synthesis of fatty acids and their oxidation, and is anti-cancerous. Eating 0.4g of PUFA is bad. Serotonin is the happy hormone. Progesterone is immunosuppressive in a bad way, makes you susceptible to infection. Estrogen is good to give for menopause women. Estriol and Estrone is bad, but estradiol is good even considering they convert in each other etc.

To concretize it or to assess whether it may be necessary, I would recommend a meeting with honorable members
Why concretize it? Because the mining for the gold would be more easily and the information, the message of this forum would not be misrepresented, deturped. Is an countermeasure against trolls

@CLASH I really like your posts, I am waiting for your blog. Members like you, leave it clear that you want, try to transcend Peat's work or considerate his thoughts.
I think Peat said that 1 carb/1 protein/1 fat kcal is the ideal for an health person... I thought it was lampofred who did this great post, but was you! Unpopular Opinion: I Think Some Of Ray's Ideas Are Just Not Helpful And Actually Make Matters Worse
@Waremu I feel best on high carb, like 80- 90%. I think Peat or Haidut said that is good to eat at least 2 carbs/1 protein. Thanks for chiming in

 

[Waremu]

Hi, @charlie and @Blossom , I've summoned you more to alert about the situation. In relation to people insulting Ray, if someone didn’t intervene then I did and they ceased insults, if they had continued, I would alert. Now that I know you would like and would be beneficial, I will report. Thanks Blossom and Charlie!

An idea to mitigate attacks and misinformation

Create an anti-peat subforum, where mainly, studies and hypotheses repeated and "unpeaty", that have previously been here: solved, clarified and that have been shown to be incorrect or frail. Be moved there.
If you will put something "anti-peat" in the main forum, then that be something well-founded and not yet clarified, cleared up

What kind of ideas would be moved there? These: Estrogen inhibits the synthesis of fatty acids and their oxidation, and is anti-cancerous. Eating 0.4g of PUFA is bad. Serotonin is the happy hormone. Progesterone is immunosuppressive in a bad way, makes you susceptible to infection. Estrogen is good to give for menopause women. Estriol and Estrone is bad, but estradiol is good even considering they convert in each other etc.

To concretize it or to assess whether it may be necessary, I would recommend a meeting with honorable members
Why concretize it? Because the mining for the gold would be more easily and the information, the message of this forum would not be misrepresented, deturped. Is an countermeasure against trolls

@CLASH I really like your posts, I am waiting for your blog. Members like you, leave it clear that you want, try to transcend Peat's work or considerate his thoughts. I think Peat said that 1 carb/1 protein/1 fat kcal is the ideal for an health person...

I would caution people to remember that the 1:1 ratio of Carb, Protein, Fat, is in the context of those in good or decent health, hence what is ‘ideal’ for a, as you put it, healthy person. That’s the ideal baseline to work from and then one can up the carbs from there depending on what their carb tolerance needs to be depending on how much resistance to stress they need. But even for a healthy person, they may need a higher Carb to Protein ratio than that if they are very active or dealing with more stress. I am active and I am one of those persons. There are quotes of Peat where he mentioned that a person who is healing or has a lot of stress to deal with in life may need a higher carb ratio as well. I think if someone is in very good health and has little stress to deal with, then they probably could get by with that ratio, but I have found that in my normal day to day life in this world with the many stressors involved, in conjunction to my active lifestyle, I need a Carb to Protein ratio grater than 1:1. 2:1 bare minimum for me and 3:1 works best for me. I’ve tried a 1:1 ratio and I still will often get a stress response from the protein. I need a higher carb ratio to offset that, I have found over the many years of doing this. I’ve found very few people who are in good health and can eat a 1:1 ratio and maintain good thyroid function to combat the various stressors. My thyroid function declines noticeably with anything less than a 2:1 ratio. (I get my blood work done and track my pulse and temperature regularly and have so since 2012).