“Anti Estrogens” Are Estrogenic

[TheBeard]

Did you have any physical changes due to T supplement?

Some muscle mass increase.
The changes are mostly psychological and emotional

 

[TheBeard]

what about LH/FSH? testicle size? its almost too good to be true

LH and FSH blood measurements mean nothing.
The values are so cyclical throughout the day that you could be at a peak or a trough.
Me having back to normal T levels means the HPTA is restored, from the pituitary to the testicles.

No noticeable testicle atrophy

 

[TheBeard]

What was your total testosterone level when on transcrotal t?

Between 2000 and 3000 ng/dl

 

[Andman]

LH and FSH blood measurements mean nothing.
The values are so cyclical throughout the day that you could be at a peak or a trough.
Me having back to normal T levels means the HPTA is restored, from the pituitary to the testicles.

No noticeable testicle atrophy

Aight thanks for sharing, looks like ill have to give this a try in the future!

Are you going back „on“ now?

 

[Goobz]

They don't separate anything since there is such a cocktail of drugs going on there is no real data to be gathered. Even studying only one variable at a time is hard to get right, this study is just absurd "science"

I guess you will be first in line to try the recently popularized estrogen pills for men :)

Funnily enough, despite your ideological aversion to the idea, there are cases where estradiol supplementation has been shown to be beneficial in men. As long as it's transdermal estradiol, not oral estrogen which gets converted to estrone in the liver.

As to your criticism of the study - well, how would you have designed it then? How would you have reduced the men's testosterone levels to zero, brought them back up to a baseline, then controlled aromatase in one group but not another?

In any case, this study isn't critical to my argument or anything. I mentioned it in passing, and provided the link only because ecstatichamster asked for a citation. It's just one of many, many studies showing similarly beneficial effects of estrogen.

Oh whoops, I mean, the "big conspiracy that estrogen is good for you. That exists to, err, sell hormone pills." To be honest, that argument is so absurd to me. I mean, if it's as simple as progesterone being the wonder hormone and total solution... and all they want is to just sell you hormones.... they can sell progesterone too. And guess what, those people and websites that detail about how beneficial progesterone is, they do sell progesterone. Why is that not a conspiracy? It's a weird double standard that people appear to be rather blind to.

Anyway I'm done talking about this again. I have plenty of posts going over this multiple times, with sources, if anyone is interested they can search them.

 

[rei]

As to your criticism of the study - well, how would you have designed it then? How would you have reduced the men's testosterone levels to zero, brought them back up to a baseline, then controlled aromatase in one group but not another?

In absolutely no way, because such does no happen in real life so it has no meaning. I would have selected a group and split that and controlled aromatase in one arm. But even such study is far-fetched since we know of no drug that only affects aromatase so in reality you are studying a specific drug, not the action of an enzyme. The error you do is to generalize the result to anything else than the effects of a particular drug.

If you get same effect with several completely unrelated SELECTIVE aromatase inhibitors (they don't exist) then you can conclude this is an effect of aromatase not just one drug or drug class

But if you artificially tank hormone production, then add hormone, then block the added hormone conversion, you are doing black magic or propaganda. The very least i would need to even begin listening to arguments along that line is a convincing study that show that goserelin + hormone replacement has no detectable effect compared to doing nothing. After that a study that shows aromatase inhibitor + aromatized hormone replacement has no measurable effect.

 

[wildworld1992]

It's taken to block estrogen from binding in the breast, which it does well if anecdotal accounts of treating gyno in 100s of cases in can believed.
Frankly I hated SERMS mental effects I would avoid them at all cost

How do you do PCT?