Anybody Else Have Hypothyroid Symptoms With Low/normal TSH?

[Chris-R]

Does anybody else have classic hypothyroid symptoms, but a low/normal TSH (2 or below)? If so, to what do you attribute your symptoms (whether it be by best guess, intuition, trial and error, evidence etc.)?

For instance, although my TSH is 1.6, I suffer from: lethargy, extreme brain fog, poor mood, impaired memory, anxiousness, irritability, mood swings, perceived elevated adrenaline and cortisol, stiff dry hair, hair fall, dry skin patches, ridged finger nails, slow bowels, cold hands/feet, puffy face, muscle weakness, inability to tolerate much of any stress, wired but tired when going to bed, trouble staying asleep.
(proper Peat inspired diet + regular exercise and enough sleep all helps me significantly though).

 

[lampofred]

Too much cortisol and fat oxidation as opposed to glucose oxidation will keep TSH low even though there is hypothyroidism.

 

[Kunstruct]

Is TSH an accurate way of measuring thyroid function?
There have been talks about it as not being reliable. Now the theory is that because TSH is low means T4 is high, so what could anyone criticize more. Yes not enough carbs, but often times people have that sorted out also.
There are many people with 0.x TSH and still have many hypothyroid symptoms.

What is your body temperature considering your symptoms?

 

[GreenEyedBlonde]

Yes!! My TSH is o.o2. I have all the symptoms you mentioned but I am on T4. Endocrinologist states my symptoms, including a pulse of 50 bpm, cannot be from hypothyroidism. I’m guessing my Rt3 is high due to inefficient conversion of T4 is the culprit but my doc won’t test. Since eating more protein, my TSH continues to lower so doc has been cutting back my dose which doesn’t help my symptoms.

 

[Kunstruct]

Too much cortisol and fat oxidation as opposed to glucose oxidation will keep TSH low even though there is hypothyroidism.

I guess this can be an explanation.
So then measured T3 would mean it is low in such conditions even if TSH is low?

 

[Kunstruct]

Yes!! My TSH is o.o2. I have all the symptoms you mentioned but I am on T4. Endocrinologist states my symptoms, including a pulse of 50 bpm, cannot be from hypothyroidism. I’m guessing my Rt3 is high due to inefficient conversion of T4 is the culprit but my doc won’t test. Since eating more protein, my TSH continues to lower so doc has been cutting back my dose which doesn’t help my symptoms.

I am sorry about this doc issue, this happens actually often, they wont test something because they do not believe in it and keep it that way.
As a matter of fact I know someone with even lower TSH which just keeps getting fatter and tries to reduce fat by starvation, seems to not be working at all.

 

[Chris-R]

Is TSH an accurate way of measuring thyroid function?
There have been talks about it as not being reliable. Now the theory is that because TSH is low means T3 is high, so what could anyone criticize more. Yes not enough carbs, but often times people have that sorted out also.
There are many people with 0.x TSH and still have many hypothyroid symptoms.

What is your body temperature considering your symptoms?

You know, I'm glad you asked that because here is a conundrum for you... my waking temps are 98.6 as well as my daily temps. I've done underarm (leave it in place for 10 minutes before moving at all when I wake up in bed) as well as back of the tongue.

 

[Kunstruct]

I'm glad you asked that because here is a conundrum for you... my waking temps are 98.6

I have the same problem now.
It use to be lower temp 97.7F so I thought that my toes are freezing because of that, now my temps are 98.6F and my toes are still freezing, they are also cold to the touch of the hand, the entire foot it rather cold but the toes and heel feel the coldest.

 

[Chris-R]

Is TSH an accurate way of measuring thyroid function?
There have been talks about it as not being reliable. Now the theory is that because TSH is low means T3 is high, so what could anyone criticize more. Yes not enough carbs, but often times people have that sorted out also.
There are many people with 0.x TSH and still have many hypothyroid symptoms.

Also, I completely agree with you on it being very unwise to rely wholly on TSH testing. However, I do believe TSH is a good measure of whether or not the thyroid is producing enough thyroid hormone, which, if not, would be classical hypothyroidism. So if that isn't the issue, my thought is to then consider any of, but not limited to, the following: elevated reverse T3, underconversion of T4 to T3, liver issues, gut/intestinal issues, key nutrient deficiencies etc. etc. etc. into what seems like an infinite number of potential issues unfortunately (the whole point of this thread really).

 

[Kunstruct]

Sorry I meant to say T4 in my post not T3.

 

[Nicole W.]

Does anybody else have classic hypothyroid symptoms, but a low/normal TSH (2 or below)? If so, to what do you attribute your symptoms (whether it be by best guess, intuition, trial and error, evidence etc.)?

For instance, although my TSH is 1.6, I suffer from: lethargy, extreme brain fog, poor mood, impaired memory, anxiousness, irritability, mood swings, perceived elevated adrenaline and cortisol, stiff dry hair, hair fall, dry skin patches, ridged finger nails, slow bowels, cold hands/feet, puffy face, muscle weakness, inability to tolerate much of any stress, wired but tired when going to bed, trouble staying asleep.
(proper Peat inspired diet + regular exercise and enough sleep all helps me significantly though).

Are you eating enough? All of the symptoms you mentioned can be from hunger or low blood sugar. Enough satisfying, easily digestible food tends to: energize, improve mental performance, reduce anxiety/ irritability caused by low blood sugar, reduce adrenaline spikes, give the body enough nutrients to nourish hair, skin and nails, provides protein to keep liver functioning... well eliminating toxins, estrogens and other undesirables. Maybe its not your thyroid, maybe it’s under feeding?

 

[Chris-R]

Are you eating enough? All of the symptoms you mentioned can be from hunger or low blood sugar. Enough satisfying, easily digestible food tends to: energize, improve mental performance, reduce anxiety/ irritability caused by low blood sugar, reduce adrenaline spikes, give the body enough nutrients to nourish hair, skin and nails, provides protein to keep liver functioning... well eliminating toxins, estrogens and other undesirables. Maybe its not your thyroid, maybe it’s under feeding?

I have been studying nutrition for many years. So I pay pretty close attention to things like calories and macros etc. I definitely eat plenty of calories daily. Sometimes too many in an attempt to relieve stress. I stick to easy to digest foods. Mainly ripe sweet fruit, Beef, Eggs, coffee, milk, Parmesan, low fat mozzarella, OJ. I avoid allergenic and poorly digested foods. thank you for the comment.

 

[mostlylurking]

Yes!! My TSH is o.o2. I have all the symptoms you mentioned but I am on T4. Endocrinologist states my symptoms, including a pulse of 50 bpm, cannot be from hypothyroidism. I’m guessing my Rt3 is high due to inefficient conversion of T4 is the culprit but my doc won’t test. Since eating more protein, my TSH continues to lower so doc has been cutting back my dose which doesn’t help my symptoms.

EDIT: I was trying to post to the original poster but I failed and quoted the wrong poster, sorry. The information below is still valid though. It's my understanding that high Rt3 is caused by high PUFA. But there could be other reasons as well. Your liver needs to work well in order to convert T4 into T3; it needs at least 100 grams of protein and 150 grams of good sugars (like orange juice) each day. It also needs some T3 included in your medication so that the liver has the energy to convert the T4 into more T3. Straight T4 (like Synthroid) does not work.

You need to find a different doctor. You doctor appears to be very poorly informed.

Read Ray Peat articles about thyroid: Google Custom Search This link goes to a list of articles by Ray Peat concerning hypothyroidism.

Also get and read Broda Barnes' book here: https://www.amazon.com/Hypothyroidism-Unsuspected-Illness-Broda-Barnes/dp/069001029X/ref=sr_1_1?crid=2PRMW7O04LO4M&keywords=broda+barnes+hypothyroidism&qid=1583080998&sprefix=broda+barnes,aps,171&sr=8-1

I've been hypothyroid all my adult life. I'm 70. My TSH is below .02, always. Your TSH is above 1.o, which is high, so it is causing you problems like inflammation in and of itself. The thyroid panel test is not calibrated correctly; the "healthy range" the doctor follows for guidance is way off. Ray Peat explains the poorly calibrated tests and how we got where we are in his articles.

I'm finally doing well regarding the hypothyroidism because I found a wonderful but pretty old (80's) endocrinologist who doesn't believe in paying much attention to the TSH test. I take 3 grains (180 mg) of natural desiccated thyroid daily (NP thyroid by Acella). My doctor tests me every 6 months. He wants to keep my T3 just under the out of range (too high). Last May I tested a tiny bit above the range. Instead of lowering my medication, he warned me that it was a little high and if it was still high in December we'd have to lower the dose. I increased my vitamin A a little and I also started eating lobster once a week for the copper and selenium. My T3 went down to just within range on the next test so the doctor left my medication alone. I think he's wonderful.

There are a lot of variables that affect hypothyroidism: PUFA, copper, selenium, vitamin A, enough protein, enough good sugars, and more. It's complicated. It's really important to educate yourself because doctors for the most part are clueless regarding chronic conditions like hypothyroidism.

You could try to educate your doctor but most doctors simply are not interested because they paid a lot of money to gain the misinformation that they rely on.

 

[ebs]

Yes my TSH is around 1 the last three times I've tested it. Before one drop of Tyromix a day I had brought it down to 1.3 with diet/lifestyle (Peat), after it went down to 1.1. Still cold hands/feet but I feel that ever since my TSH went down from 2-4 to 1.3 and lower I did feel more at ease and more blissful. In my experience thyroid is more anti-stress than pro-energy. It doesn't give me the energy boost I was expecting. The cold hands and feet are often a result of eating certain carbs/liquids so it possibly has a different cause.

 

[Chris-R]

Yes my TSH is around 1 the last three times I've tested it. Before one drop of Tyromix a day I had brought it down to 1.3 with diet/lifestyle (Peat), after it went down to 1.1. Still cold hands/feet but I feel that ever since my TSH went down from 2-4 to 1.3 and lower I did feel more at ease and more blissful. In my experience thyroid is more anti-stress than pro-energy. It doesn't give me the energy boost I was expecting. The cold hands and feet are often a result of eating certain carbs/liquids so it possibly has a different cause.

Your statements resonate with my current experience...

I tried using T3 for the first time over the past couple weeks. It was odd at first. Even just a few micro-grams at a time and I could feel a very strong uncomfortable rush of anxious energy, similar to WAY too much caffeine. Could feel my heart beating too hard etc. I fully believe this is due to the fact that, when thyroid hormone conversion/utilization and oxidative metabolism is low, the body compensates by raising adrenaline and cortisol and moving towards glycolitic metabolism (stress metabolism). My body of course had no idea that a dose of T3 was on its way, and so the T3 went right on top of my significantly elevated adrenaline + cortisol, which explains the rush and discomfort. However, I decided to persist and, as the days went on, I could eventually perceive a transition away from the stress state. Seems my body began to pick up on the fact that T3 was coming in pretty regularly and sufficiently, and so it felt it was safe to begin to down regulate the excessive adrenaline and cortisol and stress state given that they are no longer necessary (thanks to supplemental T3). There are still some ups and downs which I assume is due to the body adjusting away from the stress state which its been functioning in for a LONG time now, and instead learning/remembering how to function again on a more thyroid hormone mediated (healthy) metabolism. I am so much calmer now. Significantly less anxious tension and irritability. The world and my tasks/goals do not feel as overwhelming. I do have a fair amount of fatigue off and on. But again, I think that is the adjustment phase from stress state to relaxed state. Rome wasn't built in a day after all.

 

[ebs]

Your statements resonate with my current experience...

I tried using T3 for the first time over the past couple weeks. It was odd at first. Even just a few micro-grams at a time and I could feel a very strong uncomfortable rush of anxious energy, similar to WAY too much caffeine. Could feel my heart beating too hard etc. I fully believe this is due to the fact that, when thyroid hormone conversion/utilization and oxidative metabolism is low, the body compensates by raising adrenaline and cortisol and moving towards glycolitic metabolism (stress metabolism). My body of course had no idea that a dose of T3 was on its way, and so the T3 went right on top of my significantly elevated adrenaline + cortisol, which explains the rush and discomfort. However, I decided to persist and, as the days went on, I could eventually perceive a transition away from the stress state. Seems my body began to pick up on the fact that T3 was coming in pretty regularly and sufficiently, and so it felt it was safe to begin to down regulate the excessive adrenaline and cortisol and stress state given that they are no longer necessary (thanks to supplemental T3). There are still some ups and downs which I assume is due to the body adjusting away from the stress state which its been functioning in for a LONG time now, and instead learning/remembering how to function again on a more thyroid hormone mediated (healthy) metabolism. I am so much calmer now. Significantly less anxious tension and irritability. The world and my tasks/goals do not feel as overwhelming. I do have a fair amount of fatigue off and on. But again, I think that is the adjustment phase from stress state to relaxed state. Rome wasn't built in a day after all.

I can relate to this, especially before I started this particular journey. I've noticed that progesterone taken at the same time as Tyromix reduces the stress effect. And one drop definitely works because it decreases water retention in my face and increases skin clarity almost immediately. It also improves mental clarity so socializing (increased responsiveness) becomes a little easier. But there is no great energy rush as I was expecting, at least not for me. The stress effect I get when taken too much is increased melancholy/apathy, not so much an adrenaline rush as you describe it, which I'm familiar with too btw. I think my mental energy is low for various reasons so I get depleted quickly when taken too much of something stimulating. I think the real cure for me would be a six months hibernation.

 

[Chris-R]

I can relate to this, especially before I started this particular journey. I've noticed that progesterone taken at the same time as Tyromix reduces the stress effect. And one drop definitely works because it decreases water retention in my face and increases skin clarity almost immediately. It also improves mental clarity so socializing (increased responsiveness) becomes a little easier. But there is no great energy rush as I was expecting, at least not for me. The stress effect I get when taken too much is increased melancholy/apathy, not so much an adrenaline rush as you describe it, which I'm familiar with too btw. I think my mental energy is low for various reasons so I get depleted quickly when taken too much of something stimulating. I think the real cure for me would be a six months hibernation.

Awesome dialogue here. We are totally the same on the melancholy/apathy!!! The initial effect was the rush, but then I noticed quite a bit of a melancholy "what's the point" type of lull when I was mistakenly taking too much T3 the past week. Also, I eat A LOT of calories daily from nice sweet ripe fruit and the rest of my diet is quality low fat cuts of red meat, beef bone broth, eggs, shellfish and some low fat cheese. But even still, after learning so much Peat inspired info and being carefully observant of my body for so long, I can just tell that my body's overall ability to metabolize sugar and/or store glycogen is just totally impaired (stress when too much time passes between meals, trouble staying asleep, liver/gallbladder discomfort) Late last week I watched a Roddy/Georgi podcast and he mentioned niacinamide helping cells to uptake and properly metabolize sugar. So over the past weekend I remembered to take niacinamide daily and it seemed to make a very strong improvement in my energy levels. I mean I was outside playing with my kids for hours. I wrote a ton of music for my band. I was just up early and tackling the day. Really good stuff.
I also find that pregnenolone is extremely potent in lowering or even eliminating the anxious, tense kind of stress state. Must be careful though as it can almost be sedating. I like to take preg 3-5 days a week. It's very nice.