Would You Vaccinate Your Child?

Discussion in 'Children' started by kettlebell, Jan 23, 2013.

?

If you were to have a newborn baby would you get them vaccinated?

  1. Yes

    15 vote(s)
    25.4%
  2. No

    37 vote(s)
    62.7%
  3. Some (If Some, please say which vaccinations and why you would have those done)

    7 vote(s)
    11.9%
  1. kettlebell

    kettlebell Member

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    This topic is close to my heart. My wife and I intend on having children relatively soon and I am concerned about whether any vaccinations are safe or all are in some way allergenic or worse.

    Or have you already made that decision. Please vote and say why you made the decisions to, or not to.

    With my current views I would seriously consider zero vaccinations for my child but it terrifies me as is that really the right decision in our modern overpopulated and over polluted society.
     
  2. OP
    kettlebell

    kettlebell Member

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    The pressure to vaccinate your child is very strong in the UK.

    This is the current list NHS recommended, free, vaccinations. They are very serious if not deadly conditions for a baby if caught.

    Could you live with yourself if you made the decision not to vaccinate and you baby then died of measles or polio or any of the others?

    What are the risks in our modern over crowded and polluted environments?

    Is it better to risk the vaccines than it is to risk the easily deadly diseases?



    Childhood vaccines
    These are the routine vaccinations that are offered free of charge on the NHS to all babies and children in the UK.
    A change to the childhood vaccination schedule means that from November 2010 rather than one visit at 12 months of age to give Hib/MenC and a second visit at 13 months of age to give PCV and MMR, the boosters of Hib/MenC and PCV are now offered with MMR in a single visit between 12 and 13 months of age (that is, within a month after the child's first birthday).
    DTaP/IPV/Hib or 5-in-1 vaccine

    Protects against: diphtheria, tetanus, pertussis (whooping cough), polio and Hib (haemophilus influenza type B).
    Given at: 2, 3 and 4 months of age.
    More about the 5-in-1 vaccine
    Pneumococcal (PCV)

    Protects against: some types of pneumococcal infection.
    Given at: 2, 4 and 12-13 months of age.
    More about the pneumococcal jab
    Meningitis C (MenC)

    Protects against: meningitis C (meningococcal type C).
    Given at: 3 and 4 months of age.
    More about the MenC jab
    Hib/MenC (booster)

    Protects against: haemophilus influenza type b (Hib) and meningitis C.
    Given at: 12-13 months of age.
    More about the Hib/MenC booster
    MMR

    Protects against: measles, mumps and rubella.
    Given at: 12-13 months and at 3 years and 4 months of age, or sometime thereafter.
    More about the MMR jab
    DTaP/IPV (or dTaP/IPV) ‘pre-school’ booster

    Protects against: diphtheria, tetanus, pertussis (whooping cough) and polio.
    Given at: 3 years and 4 months of age or shortly thereafter.
    More about the DTaP/IPV pre-school booster
    Optional vaccinations

    These vaccinations are offered, in addition to the routine programme, to special ‘at risk’ groups of babies and children.
    Chickenpox (varicella) vaccination

    Protects against: chickenpox.
    Who needs it: siblings of children who have suppressed immune systems and are susceptible to chickenpox, for example, because they're having cancer treatment or have had an organ transplant. Given: from one year of age upwards (one dose for children from one year to 12 years. Two doses given 4-8 weeks apart for children aged 13 years or older).
    More about the varicella jab

    BCG (tuberculosis) vaccination

    Protects against: tuberculosis (TB).
    Who needs it: babies and children who have a high chance of coming into contact with tuberculosis.
    Given: from birth to 16 years of age.
    More about the BCG vaccine
    Flu vaccination

    Protects against: flu.
    Who needs it: children with certain medical conditions or a weakened immune system, which may put them at risk of complications from flu.
    Given: from six months and over in a single jab every year in October/November.
    More about the flu jab
    Hepatitis B vaccination

    Protects against: hepatitis B.
    Who needs it: children at high risk of exposure to hepatitis B, and babies born to infected mothers.
    Given: at any age, as four doses given over 12 months. A baby born to a mother infected with hepatitis B will be offered a dose at birth, one month of age, 2 months of age and one year of age.
    More on the hepatitis B vaccine
     
  3. kiran

    kiran Member

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    kb, I gotta ask, how Peatarian is your wife? What does she think of Peat?
     
  4. ratcheer

    ratcheer Guest

    I vaccinate, and happily so. I'm just not convinced the anti folks have any real data beyond hysteria and mythology. Granted one has to be skeptical of ANY study, but there have been so MANY studies demonstrating safety. This last round was pretty compelling - 1) kids who aren't vaccinated end up in the hospital more often. Also 2) multiple vaccinations at a time haven't demonstrated a problem. I was surprised at this last one - it makes sense to me that a big variety at one time especially while very young could be stressful - but the data just don't support that.

    A couple things that keep me on this side of the argument: the claim that the studies are done by the pharmaceutical companies to keep their profits flowing - that doesn't fly because if those companies had a choice they'd drop vaccines right away (they are strong-armed by the FDA to make them). Also, the original claim (that vaccines cause problems) was from a study that has been since discredited and all the authors except the primary (I forget his name) have disavowed the conclusion. He sticks with it because he makes a lot of money scaring people about vaccines.

    I also don't dismiss ALL scientific and medical research out of hand (I have friends that say because scientists get grants they'll produce anything their keepers want). But I don't think it really works that way. Yes there are paradigms and prejudices and pressure and reputations and funding - all that crap - but if we dismiss *everything* then we are just making stuff up. That's nice personally but as a public health policy not so great. And as an aside, if we suspect all studies we don't agree with, then why do we bother with Dr. Peat? He's getting his info from those same studies. The point isn't to believe all of them or none of them but to see it as an imperfect process and use skepticism wisely.

    One argument I hear is "My kid was vaccinated - and then he got the illness later". But that happened to us: my daughter got the chicken pox vaccine then a few months later came down with chicken pox. But *thankfully* she was vaccinated because it was a very mild case - no itching or discomfort or illness even. The alternative could have been pretty bad or with scaring otherwise.

    I think Kettlebell is exactly right: vaccines protect against some pretty serious diseases. Why risk possible illness or hospitalization and even death unnecessarily? Yes if we lived in a pristine and isolated environment with excellent diets and plenty of red light it wouldn't be necessary - but that's not the world we live in no matter how much we want it that way.

    This reminds me - I've been meaning to get the HPV vaccine for my daughter...

    As a quick edit: I'd prefer to wait a little past the newborn stage before starting any, and to spread them out if I can. This in spite of data suggesting it isn't necessary.
     
  5. Kelly

    Kelly Member

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    I've only been doing this Peat thing for a couple months now, but I've been anti unnecessary medical intervention for awhile. I live in the US and specifically sought out midwife care and had my kids with no meds (but in the hospital). I did somewhat extended nursing, a little past a year for both. This mindset naturally made me skeptical of vaccines and to read up on them. Like ratcheer, I didn't find any compelling evidence to not give vaccines, and was not willing to risk my kids get any of those diseases. We didn't do any vaccines in the hospital, but did pretty much all the rest right on schedule. We never had any issues, our girls have been quite healthy. None of us get the flu vaccine, however. I feel uncomfortable with a yearly vaccine and don't think the risk of flu is that great, especially since that vaccine is so hit or miss depending on which strain hits.

    I found the Sears vaccine book had the best info, IMO. It lists the risks of the vaccine and the risks of the disease, and he also lists an alternative vaccine schedule if you want to go slow with the shots.

    http://www.amazon.com/Vaccine-Book-Deci ... 0316180521
     
  6. ratcheer

    ratcheer Guest

    Yeah except for vaccines and blood tests - and any emergencies - I avoid doctors and 'medicine' as much as possible.
     
  7. gabriel79

    gabriel79 Member

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    Hi Kettelebell,
    . As a father, I understand your concern. And yes, I've given her the mandatory vaccines especially since they're for real serious illness. I've refused to give her vaccines like the flu. I'd rather she catches a flu and that's it. Of course, I only had 50% of the decision and my wife follows a bit more than me conventional medicine. I believe that some vaccines are worthy, you have very much to win avoiding do deadly diseases and the chance of side effects is very low, but again, for things like flu I rather skip it.
     
  8. charlie

    charlie The Law & Order Admin

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  9. Kelly

    Kelly Member

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    I'll have to read this more closely at some point, but I have a hard time taking medical claims from a site called "Gaia Health" seriously. I looked for some context to Dr Lanctot's claims and found this site. It seems like a lot of conspiracy theory conjecture, but again, I didn't read all of it. Number 3 seemed especially out there. The government is using gun control and ... vaccines to rule us?

    http://educate-yourself.org/cn/vaccinat ... ov05.shtml
     
  10. ratcheer

    ratcheer Guest

    Not to get into a back-and-forth - I'm fully aware that some folks are making a choice and have a right to do so. That said (I can't resist!), that above study is interesting but not conclusive at all. It's data from a self-reporting database - i.e., if a child gets sick and the doctor agrees the vaccine is related, it's counted as an event. Illness from NOT taking a vaccine is not counted - which is exactly the detail that SHOULD be studied. The factor of multiple vaccines - if they stop after one, then later get sick or even die from a vaccine-preventable disease is NOT counted as an event. So yes they show a correlation - but it's clearly going to be highly skewed toward linking vaccines to hospitalizations. I'm not even addressing the 'pedigree' of a study done, sponsored and promoted by an anti-vaccine group.

    But when you study who actually goes to the hospital it's a different story - this was a typical one:

    "Oregon Public Health officials note increasing cases of pertussis (whooping cough) in infants, with 146 hospitalizations noted in the 2 year period ending March 2011, and at least 4 deaths since 2003. Most cases are attributed to lack of vaccination, with 86% of those due to parents declining the vaccine."

    or, the finding that mercury-based vaccines actually seems to be correlated to *reduced* autism rates (not the main point of this article btw)

    http://articles.latimes.com/2010/sep/13 ... m-20100913

    And so on.
     
  11. kiran

    kiran Member

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    Well, the flip side is also true. If a child gets sick and the doctor doesn't think the vaccine is related, then it's not counted as an event. So it's highly dependent on a doctor's subjective determination of whether it's related.

    There have been some anecdotal reports of doctors declining to count illness as a vaccine related event.
     
  12. OP
    kettlebell

    kettlebell Member

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    She finds it very interesting, avoids pufa and eats fruit, drinks milk etc but she doesn't follow anything strictly.
     
  13. nwo2012

    nwo2012 Member

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    edit: apologies for spelling and grammar, tried to do this as quick as possible.

    http://www.cdc.gov/vaccines/pubs/pinkbo ... able-2.pdf

    Ignorance is bliss I guess?
    Don't make me laugh regarding the FDA forcing pharmaceutical companies to make vaccines, lol. It is common knowledge, unless your mind is firmly stuck in a box, that the FDA was captivated by Big Pharma many moons ago.
    The vaccine industry insisted that they be exempt from any lawsuits against them due to vaccine injuries and that is why VAERS was set up.

    Many of the diseases vaccines are said to have eradicated were already vastly on the decline prior to the inception of the respective vaccine. I have seen graphs showing this on pro-vaccine sites but they just start the graph in a later year so it looks favourable to the vaccine. When shown in its entirety you can clearly see that it was improved sanitation that was responsible for the disease's decline. Here's an example of this, please look as it is an eye opener. In fact some vaccines temporarily increased the incidence of deaths from a disease.

    http://www.whale.to/vaccines/decline1.html

    When I asked RP about vaccines he simply replied with the infamous Simpsonwood memo. Well worth reading about that one. Of course Big Pharma can debunk everything but anyone with an open mind can see what went on.

    I don't even know where to start but all of this is off the top of my head, feel free to research it as I have done so thoroughly in the past.

    Lets start off with some of the excipients:

    Aluminium - How can injecting a known neurotoxin into children be considered safe?

    Polysorbate 80 - Shown to cause infertility in animals.

    MSG - Yes the neurotoxin is present in some vaccines.

    Neomycin - An antibiotic approved only for oral use due to its systemic toxicity when injected, the exception being that it is somehow safe when injected in small amounts into infants.

    Latex- Another allergen present in some vaccines. I, myself, have a latex allergy courtesy of the latex that was present in the Hep B vaccines that were forced on me as a healthcare worker. Within a few weeks of this vaccine I suddenly couldn't wear the sparring gloves I had done for years without issue - skin on hands started to peel.

    Mercury - Need I say anything about this toxic metal that somehow becomes safe in vaccines and in dentistry? Yes mercury-free vaccines can still contain it as it need not be listed if less than 3mcg.

    And then we have all of the animal material left from the cultures. Read about the SV40 virus that was present in the Salk Polio vaccine and has most likely contributed to possibly millions of cancers as it is a potent carcinogen. We can never know all animal viruses so there is always the risk of similar viruses being 'hidden' in vaccines.

    Endotoxins - A topic dear to Peatarians hearts. Well there is absolutely no testing for the endotoxin count in vaccines and there are researchers that are certain endotoxinemia is responsible for many infant deaths.

    http://aem.asm.org/content/36/3/445.full.pdf

    Shaken Baby Syndrome or Adverse Vaccine Reaction?
    http://www.laleva.cc/choice/vaccines/va ... nexus.html


    I could go on for a long time on this but I do not wish to spend anymore of my valuable time on it. People need to do deep research before injecting their kids with these poisons.

    Most people are not even aware that much of the research data showing safety or efficacy has been 'massaged'. Examples are studies where the placebo actually contains everything except the virus itself. i.e. All of the toxic excipients are in the placebo. So naturally not much will be found in those 'trials'.

    What about all the lawsuits?
    http://www.vaccinationcouncil.org/2012/ ... phries-md/

    What about this, scary stuff! Got very little exposure by the MSM, I wonder why?
    It should have been front page news in every publication!

    http://timesofindia.indiatimes.com/home ... 230882.cms?



    I myself have one vaccinated (I was one of the sheeple at that time) and one unvaccinated child. I can tell you that both are now very healthy thanks to Ray Peat basically. But in the past it was the vaccinated one that was regularly sick whereas the unvaccinated child has barely had so much as a stuffy nose since birth.
     
  14. nwo2012

    nwo2012 Member

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    Many deaths occur months after the vaccine is given so will never be attributed to it. And same for many of the injuries.
     
  15. Claire

    Claire New Member

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    Ray Peat says that vaccinations are known to suppress immunity. So I wouldn't do it. Having your own strong immune system is imperative to good health. So many of the childhood illness are good for you and make you a stronger adult with life long immunity. Whereas, who even know how long the vaccines are actually effective for, if at all. They use horrible fear mongering to get people to vaccinate their children so excessively. Vaccinations are only on the rise as our health is on the steep decline. It is not a wise choice in my opinion. I have 4 lovely strong healthy children who have never been vaccinated.

    " I reviewed the many things in our environment that are known to suppress immunity, and which have become increasingly prevalent in our environment--unsaturated vegetable oils, ferrous iron and carrageenan in our foods, lead in air, food, and water, exposure to medical, military, and industrial ionizing radiation, vaccinations, pesticides, chlorinated hydrocarbons, nitric oxide (smog and medications) and oral contraceptives and environmental estrogens, in particular. "
    From Ray Peat's article - Immunodeficiency, dioxins, stress, and the hormones
     
  16. charlie

    charlie The Law & Order Admin

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    nwo and claire. :hattip :clap:


    Claire, welcome to the forum. :welcome
     
  17. j.

    j. Guest

    Is it this? Can anyone who read it make a summary?
     
  18. gretchen

    gretchen Member

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    Vaccinations are poison. I read about them off and on and never quite get what the reason is, but they seem unjustified and toxic.
     
  19. nwo2012

    nwo2012 Member

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    Thanks Charlie. Welcome Claire, good to have another free-thinker on board.

    This was Ray Peat's reply to the question on should one vaccinate.

    RP
     
  20. nwo2012

    nwo2012 Member

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    It is summarized in my post above.
     
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