Where is the proof that vaccines do harm specifically?

[rayban]

Yes we know vaccines can have side effects, so can everything else. Im talking about scientific proof that a specific group of people (for example, with X autoinmune disease, etc etc) can trigger ir, or that a healthy person can trigger something specific and measurable. All im seeing is vague claims and nothing you can point and measure.

What can be measured is that countries like Russia and Rumania are getting wrecked and have very low full dose vaccinations compared to other ones that are approaching 90%. And in these 90% fully vacced countries, with such an huge amount of a sample of vaccinated people, it should be measurable somewhere that the vaccines are triggering something, but there is no increase in expected mortality and as far as I know no one is pointing at any specific illness going up or anything else.

Im still not vaccinatedbecause I decided to be prudent and wait for the data to come once we had a big sample but so far with 90% done im not seeing solid evidence that the vaccines are creating any problems and they seem to make covid infections less severe which was the goal.

 

[CiggyTardust]

Is this bait? Are you a shill? Or do you want people to spoon-feed you information when you have the internet at your fingertips?

 

[AdoTintor]

I've seen this before - someone who has done well so far to avoid the vaxxine but its mostly done on instinct and is not based on particularly strong convictions. Then comes the pressure of job or family and suddenly they start questioning themselves.

I had a friend in London who was telling me that he and his wife had thought about it and decided "its not for us". This was earlier in the year, and I was very pleased but worried that it didn't seem a strong enough conviction. Sure enough they have recently taken it, and not even under job pressure. I felt like I shoulda-coulda done more to strengthen those convictions over the summer.

 

[TeslaFan]

Yes we know vaccines can have side effects, so can everything else. Im talking about scientific proof that a specific group of people (for example, with X autoinmune disease, etc etc) can trigger ir, or that a healthy person can trigger something specific and measurable. All im seeing is vague claims and nothing you can point and measure.

What can be measured is that countries like Russia and Rumania are getting wrecked and have very low full dose vaccinations compared to other ones that are approaching 90%. And in these 90% fully vacced countries, with such an huge amount of a sample of vaccinated people, it should be measurable somewhere that the vaccines are triggering something, but there is no increase in expected mortality and as far as I know no one is pointing at any specific illness going up or anything else.

Im still not vaccinatedbecause I decided to be prudent and wait for the data to come once we had a big sample but so far with 90% done im not seeing solid evidence that the vaccines are creating any problems and they seem to make covid infections less severe which was the goal.

VAERS data, thus far, is indicating this vaccine the most deadly of all, combined. Any longer term side effects are still pending.

 

[PowertothePeatple]

Yes we know vaccines can have side effects, so can everything else. Im talking about scientific proof that a specific group of people (for example, with X autoinmune disease, etc etc) can trigger ir, or that a healthy person can trigger something specific and measurable. All im seeing is vague claims and nothing you can point and measure.

What can be measured is that countries like Russia and Rumania are getting wrecked and have very low full dose vaccinations compared to other ones that are approaching 90%. And in these 90% fully vacced countries, with such an huge amount of a sample of vaccinated people, it should be measurable somewhere that the vaccines are triggering something, but there is no increase in expected mortality and as far as I know no one is pointing at any specific illness going up or anything else.

Im still not vaccinatedbecause I decided to be prudent and wait for the data to come once we had a big sample but so far with 90% done im not seeing solid evidence that the vaccines are creating any problems and they seem to make covid infections less severe which was the goal.

Are you asking about childhood vaccinations or MRNA vaccines? Because these are completely different technologies which would have no bearing on each other. There are plenty of associations with vaccines and negative outcomes including but not limited to: allergies, autoimmune issues, diabetes, narcolepsy, guillain barre syndrome as well as autism (for kids with mitochondrial disorders and African American boys) and death. If you are asking about MRNA the truth is we don't know because this is the first time they have been used in humans. But if animal trials are any indications there are many severe side effects including: ADE, cytokine storms and severe organ damage. And if you haven't heard reports of blood clots, myocarditis, anaphylactic shock, vertigo, POTS etc.. then you have not been looking very hard.

 

[Motif]

Good question still.

I would like to see some of the anti vaccine people here discuss with pro vaccine people, cause thus is what’s overall missing in the mainstream.


Somebody starts a discussion in reddit thread for example that everyone can follow.

„Biology „ in Reddit for example

 

[tankasnowgod]

Yes we know vaccines can have side effects, so can everything else. Im talking about scientific proof that a specific group of people (for example, with X autoinmune disease, etc etc) can trigger ir, or that a healthy person can trigger something specific and measurable. All im seeing is vague claims and nothing you can point and measure.

Um, that's not how this is supposed to work. The drug companies are supposed to show that they are SAFE. But, the VAERS database is a good place to start-

Red Boxes Page - OpenVAERS

openvaers.com

What can be measured is that countries like Russia and Rumania are getting wrecked

"Wrecked" with what?

and have very low full dose vaccinations compared to other ones that are approaching 90%. And in these 90% fully vacced countries, with such an huge amount of a sample of vaccinated people, it should be measurable somewhere that the vaccines are triggering something, but there is no increase in expected mortality and as far as I know no one is pointing at any specific illness going up or anything else.

Ridiculous. You can't trust data like this. If you want to make grand claims like this, you need to base it on RCTs. And they only used two month interium data of originally scheduled 2-3 year trials to get EUA.

Also, you seem to have no clue how drugs can do long term damage. Vioxx, for example, was pulled after 5 years and "officially" 40,000 deaths. The Covid shots are on pace to more than double that number already (though they have been administered to more people). But people generally didn't develop problems after taking 1 or 2 pills of Vioxx, it was taken chronically (so the more than 17,000 deaths reported to VAERS should be extra concerning). There are some that think the death toll might be closer to 500,000 with Vioxx, due to rising heart attack rates. And with Myocarditis/Pericarditis being a very common side effect of the demonvax, the long term death toll from these shots is already looking grim. And with people already taking a third (and fourth!) shot as "boosters," and six month "boosters" being floated basically forever, the chronic effects of the demonvax may be way worse 3 years from now. It's ridiculous to see all the proposed boosters, and no other virus or germ ever has this much "vaccine frequency." Even the most routine, the flu shot, has different virus strains every year (and usually 3 or 4 of them).

Im still not vaccinatedbecause I decided to be prudent and wait for the data to come once we had a big sample but so far with 90% done im not seeing solid evidence that the vaccines are creating any problems and they seem to make covid infections less severe which was the goal.

Wrong, wrong wrong. The idea of "less severe" infections is another concept, made up out of thin air. This certainly wasn't "The Goal" of the original trials. The ONLY thing they tested for was reduced number of infections. For example, the Pfizer trial had 162 "cases" of COVID in the Placebo Group, and 8 in the "Vaccine" group. That's where the "95% Effective!" claim comes from. But, that was only "relative risk." If you calculate Absolute Risk Reduction, it falls to a pitiful 0.84%. Because each group had 20,000 people in it, which means 39,830 or so people in BOTH arms didn't get "Covid."

They didn't test for hospitalizations, deaths, or any other marker of more severe cases.

 

[LUH 3417]

Evidence that Food Proteins in Vaccines Cause the Development of Food Allergies and Its Implications for Vaccine Policy

Nobel Laureate Charles Richet demonstrated over a hundred years ago that injecting a protein into animals or humans causes immune system sensitization to that p

papers.ssrn.com

 

[Perry Staltic]

Im still not vaccinatedbecause I decided to be prudent and wait for the data to come once we had a big sample but so far with 90% done im not seeing solid evidence that the vaccines are creating any problems and they seem to make covid infections less severe which was the goal.

VAERS shows a huge problem. This graph shows the number of deaths per year attributed to vaccines from 1990 to 2020. Pretty consistent from year to year. It shows a huge increase this year due to covid shots. But it gets worse.

This graph shows the latest VAERS data (Oct 22, 2021). Deaths (~18,000) are around 72 times higher in less than one year than they are for a typical year. They are at least 3 times higher than for all vaccines combined over the last 30 years. At this rate deaths will likely reach 25,000 by the end of the year. That's almost 2 orders of magnitude worse than a typical year.

 

[Motif]

Good question still.

I would like to see some of the anti vaccine people here discuss with pro vaccine people, cause thus is what’s overall missing in the mainstream.


Somebody starts a discussion in reddit thread for example that everyone can follow.

„Biology „ in Reddit for example

C‘mon, pls anybody? I really would like to see this.

 

[mrchibbs]

Yes we know vaccines can have side effects, so can everything else. Im talking about scientific proof that a specific group of people (for example, with X autoinmune disease, etc etc) can trigger ir, or that a healthy person can trigger something specific and measurable. All im seeing is vague claims and nothing you can point and measure.

What can be measured is that countries like Russia and Rumania are getting wrecked and have very low full dose vaccinations compared to other ones that are approaching 90%. And in these 90% fully vacced countries, with such an huge amount of a sample of vaccinated people, it should be measurable somewhere that the vaccines are triggering something, but there is no increase in expected mortality and as far as I know no one is pointing at any specific illness going up or anything else.

Im still not vaccinatedbecause I decided to be prudent and wait for the data to come once we had a big sample but so far with 90% done im not seeing solid evidence that the vaccines are creating any problems and they seem to make covid infections less severe which was the goal.

Simply put, there is no accounting for long term effects, and most of the safety concerns for things like genotoxicity, reproductive systems etc. have not been evaluated. Proper vaccines in years before hysteria and propaganda set in required extensive study and a decade or more of data before being recommended (much less mandated) to the general population.

These products have been rushed into use without following the pre-2020 scientific standards. This should be enough of an argument for someone to reject these vaccines, if only on the basis of the precautionary principle.

 

[TheSir]

Well, the European Centre for Disease Prevention and Control had already racked in over 20k deaths and 1.4 million adverse effects in total attributed to the four brands of vaccines by early September. You can go through the stats here:

https://dap.ema.europa.eu/analytics/saw.dll?PortalPages&PortalPath=%2Fshared%2FPHV%20DAP%2F_portal%2FDAP&Action=Navigate&P0=1&P1=eq&P2=%22Line%20Listing%20Objects%22.%22Substance%20High%20Level%20Code%22&P3=1+40983312

https://dap.ema.europa.eu/analytics/saw.dll?PortalPages&PortalPath=%2Fshared%2FPHV%20DAP%2F_portal%2FDAP&Action=Navigate&P0=1&P1=eq&P2=%22Line%20Listing%20Objects%22.%22Substance%20High%20Level%20Code%22&P3=1+42325700

https://dap.ema.europa.eu/analytics/saw.dll?PortalPages&PortalPath=%2Fshared%2FPHV%20DAP%2F_portal%2FDAP&Action=Navigate&P0=1&P1=eq&P2=%22Line%20Listing%20Objects%22.%22Substance%20High%20Level%20Code%22&P3=1+40995439

https://dap.ema.europa.eu/analyticsSOAP/saw.dll?PortalPages&PortalPath=%2Fshared%2FPHV%20DAP%2F_portal%2FDAP&Action=Navigate&P0=1&P1=eq&P2=%22Line%20Listing%20Objects%22.%22Substance%20High%20Level%20Code%22&P3=1+42287887

 

[rayban]

VAERS shows a huge problem. This graph shows the number of deaths per year attributed to vaccines from 1990 to 2020. Pretty consistent from year to year. It shows a huge increase this year due to covid shots. But it gets worse.

This graph shows the latest VAERS data (Oct 22, 2021). Deaths (~18,000) are around 72 times higher in less than one year than they are for a typical year. They are at least 3 times higher than for all vaccines combined over the last 30 years. At this rate deaths will likely reach 25,000 by the end of the year. That's almost 2 orders of magnitude worse than a typical year.

View attachment 29872

Do you have a graph to overlap with these of the number of vaccines being put? because for the first time ever (at least since 1990 which is as far as that graph goes) a vaccine has been used in a global pandemic setting in massive numbers, so you would expect more deaths. What matters is the % otherwise it's not conclusive.

As far as in my surroundings for anecdotal evidence, everyone is vaccinated and I know no one that has had any side effects beside some people had discomfort 2 or 3 days. Meanwhile I know at least 3 severe covid cases, one didn't fully recover and it's a guy that works in a gym (probably how he got a ton of viral exposure because everyone was exhaling heavily with no masks in interior setting).

 

[tankasnowgod]

Do you have a graph to overlap with these of the number of vaccines being put? because for the first time ever (at least since 1990 which is as far as that graph goes) a vaccine has been used in a globla pandemic setting,

I'll repeat myself.... THERE IS NO PANDEMIC. There is only a "story" about a Pandemic. Again, the 5 Million Covid deaths, even when taken at face value, are well within 13 Million or so Respiratory Disease Deaths that you would expect from any modern 23 month period. And it would be roughly 5% of the 100-110 Million Overall deaths that you would expect from the same 23 month period.

And considering somewhere between 90-99% of all so called "Covid" deaths have several serious co-morbidities, the true Covid "Death Toll" is much, much lower, maybe 500,000, maybe 250,000, or maybe zero (seeing as no one has a sample of this "Novel Corona Virus," and the tests are surrogate tests that were developed without said sample, and are easily manipulated).

So, from a health perspective, the use of these so called "Vaccines" isn't really any different than when Flu Shots are administered. The Technology in them, however, is radically different.

so you would expect more deaths. What matters is the % otherwise it's not conclusive.

The figures in that graph only apply to the US, since it was taken from VAERS. The Death toll is far more staggering than any other vaccine, and you are seeing 2x the number of deaths in a fraction of a year from the three Covid "Vaccines" than you saw from ALL OTHER VACCINES IN VAERS 30 YEAR HISTORY COMBINED.

It was already apparent in March, when Anthony Colpo wrote this article, about how the Demonvax had racked up 96x the death toll of the most recent flu shot, despite 70 Million fewer doses administered.

CDC Data Shows COVID-19 Vaccines are Far Deadlier than Regular Influenza Vaccines

As I've noted in previous articles, the new COVID-19 vaccines are rapidly accumulating a disturbing number of adverse event and death reports on the US and UK databases. These reports are submitted by medical personnel and members of the public who suspect a vaccine injection contributed to or...

anthonycolpo.com

 

[PowertothePeatple]

Do you have a graph to overlap with these of the number of vaccines being put? because for the first time ever (at least since 1990 which is as far as that graph goes) a vaccine has been used in a global pandemic setting in massive numbers, so you would expect more deaths. What matters is the % otherwise it's not conclusive.

As far as in my surroundings for anecdotal evidence, everyone is vaccinated and I know no one that has had any side effects beside some people had discomfort 2 or 3 days. Meanwhile I know at least 3 severe covid cases, one didn't fully recover and it's a guy that works in a gym (probably how he got a ton of viral exposure because everyone was exhaling heavily with no masks in interior setting).

Sounds like you have already made up your mind so why bother arguing with everyone on here? You asked for proof and then you yourself only provided anecdotal evidence. Why don't you set out to prove it is safe with actual data and studies and then if you are satisfied with your answer then fine, you made a decision. Your asking others to overlay data for you, why not do it yourself?

If you can't be bothered to research it yourself then it is not really that important to you and you might as well rely on the expertise of others. I don't mean to be rude but if you are not willing to put dozens of hours into this, like everyone else on here, then you must rely on others to tell you whether it is safe or not. When I heard about the type of vaccine they were developing I spent hours studying, reading studies and researching until I felt satisfied with my own course of action. Read the animal studies with MRNA on pubmed. Study the mechanism of action for MRNA vaccines. And there is literally a 139 page thread on the forum talking about adverse events. If you want to learn then great there are plenty of resources on here but you can't expect others to convince you which way to go. You must choose your path yourself, taking full responsibility. My family has paid a high price and made real sacrifices to avoid the vaccine. So you need to ask yourself not only if you want to take the vaccine but are you willing to pay the cost. And the first cost is hours spent researching.

 

[Perry Staltic]

Do you have a graph to overlap with these of the number of vaccines being put? because for the first time ever (at least since 1990 which is as far as that graph goes) a vaccine has been used in a global pandemic setting in massive numbers, so you would expect more deaths. What matters is the % otherwise it's not conclusive.

If I find one I'll post it. In the US more non-covid vaccines are given in a typical year than the number of covid shots given this year. About 52% of the US population receives a flu shot. So what is that? About 175 million? Then add in all of the other millions of vaccines. So the " more deaths because more covid shots given" argument isn't going to fly

 

[Perry Staltic]

If I find one I'll post it. In the US more non-covid vaccines are given in a typical year than the number of covid shots given this year. About 52% of the US population receives a flu shot. So what is that? About 175 million? Then add in all of the other millions of vaccines. So the " more deaths because more covid shots given" argument isn't going to fly

Supposedly about 67% of the US population has received at least one covid shot. So that's about 15% higher than the number who receive a flue shot. Add in all the other millions of vaccines and that gap grows smaller. Similar numbers, yet deaths from the covid shots will likely be about 100 times higher by the end of the year.

 

[Ritchie]

The idea of "less severe" infections is another concept, made up out of thin air. This certainly wasn't "The Goal" of the original trials. The ONLY thing they tested for was reduced number of infections. For example, the Pfizer trial had 162 "cases" of COVID in the Placebo Group, and 8 in the "Vaccine" group. That's where the "95% Effective!" claim comes from. But, that was only "relative risk." If you calculate Absolute Risk Reduction, it falls to a pitiful 0.84%. Because each group had 20,000 people in it, which means 39,830 or so people in BOTH arms didn't get "Covid."

They didn't test for hospitalizations, deaths, or any other marker of more severe cases.

I've always thought this claim of less severe infections, or lowered viral load when transmission occurs in the vaccinated seemed irrational and unfounded. Do you know if any of the other company vaccination studies looked at this or is it just a theory that popped up out of the politics and media?

 

[RealNeat]

C‘mon, pls anybody? I really would like to see this.

They do that all the time on the www.thehighwire.com

 

[Razvan]

Romania is decimated,a lot of more deaths than usually. In my City 980 people died in octomber. Also they are trying to scare the population with creepy news in the mass media. I'm sure there are a lot of vaccinted deaths. I don't know.