US Supreme Court BLOCKS vaccine mandates

[Perry Staltic]

The Civil Rights Act isn't part of the First Amendment.

I do think it might be worth challenging the "Vaccine Passports" in places like NY on 14th Amendment grounds. Maybe even the Civil Rights Act, though there is nothing in that act about health status and such.

Civil Rights Act may need to be amended.

 

[Old Irenaeus]

Now you're at least talking a little sense again.

Oh, I have. Here is the full text of said Amendment-
Congress shall make no law respecting an establishment of religion, or prohibiting the free exercise thereof; or abridging the freedom of speech, or of the press; or the right of the people peaceably to assemble, and to petition the government for a redress of grievances.

I'm not saying Starbucks per se. But, say, Joe's coffee shop owned by Joe. Joe is happy to have Tank and Irenaeus as customers in his shop or even just to gather and talk. That right to gather should not be abridged. Sure, one can say, " global pandemic global pandemic safety safety, for the public good, the unvaxxed can't enter." I say that's unconstitutional. Especially the sleight of hand of the never-ending emergency. And we've seen lots of this with gyms and restaurants whose owners want to stay open and to do business with vaxxed and unvaxxed alike, but the public authorities won't let them, because allegedly it puts everyone at risk.

Which is it? Many or most of life activities? Or simply access to restaurants, bars, nightclubs, concerts, theaters, and such? Because, no, I don't think the later constitutes the use of force AT ALL. In fact, I currently live in an area where there are some of these restrictions on such activities, and I have felt ZERO pressure to take the demonvax at any point in the past year.

That depends on the activities one engages in. You might think other people's choices are foolish; they often are. E.g. I know you think it's a waste of time to pursue an undergraduate or graduate degree; I would tend to agree, under the current circumstances. But we are essentially creating a caste system now where some people are free to pursue all sorts of education, careers, recreation, travel, and other undertakings—because they've undergone a medical treatment--and others will be lucky if they are left with even the liberty to go to parks and "netflix and chill." If you've "felt ZERO pressure to take the demonvax" you must live a pretty isolated existence or be fairly off grid. Congratulations. But for many people the threat of being let go from work or not able to complete a degree (and sunk cost of time invested) or to be barred from restaurants, gyms, etc. constitutes a major stressor and serious pressure. Coercion. Force. Not to mention the constant gaslighting, propaganda, social pressure. Sure, people are not being physically beaten with clubs or punched in the face—at the moment—but force is being used.

That's not to say I won't feel more of a challenge at some point, but the idea of feeling "forced" to take a vaccine because I can't order a beer at a certain bar is beyond ludicrous.

It's not beyond ludicrous. It's not "a certain bar." Depending on where you live, it's all bars, all restaurants. You read the threads on Austria, etc. You're not ignorant of this. We're in a better position here in the U.S., but only somewhat, and it's precarious.

I am not "encouraging" anything. But it's absolutely an option, and a lot of people are engaging in it. To turn a blind eye to that happening (especially when people have been using fake IDs to get into bars for decades) is silly.

So you think having to lie and misrepresent because all your options have been cut off is okay and does not constitute coercion. OK.

Nor is it a part of my "Vision of Freedom." In truth, freedom and responsibility go hand in hand. I think the Amish have a better understanding of Freedom than the vast majority of Americans. Clearly, Freedom is about a lot more than simply getting drunk in a nightclub.

Sure. But being restricted to a very limited range of possibilities, and perhaps not even being able to leave one's home, because the nation has turned into a fear-addled prison state is anything but "freedom." And I'm not proposing "getting drunk in a nightclub" as the highest good. Nevertheless, some form of fun/play is part of human life and flourishing. See, for example, Finnis' list of basic goods:

• Life
• Knowledge (for its own sake)
• Friendship and Sociability
• Play (for its own sake)
• Aesthetic Experience
• Practical Reasonableness, i.e. the ability to reason correctly about what is best for yourself, and to act on those decisions.
• Religion i.e. a connection with, and participation with, the orders that transcend individual humanity

Those are all being forcefully undermined by the restrictions put in place by government under the ruse of keeping us safe.

 

[tankasnowgod]

Now you're at least talking a little sense again.

I'm not saying Starbucks per se. But, say, Joe's coffee shop owned by Joe. Joe is happy to have Tank and Irenaeus as customers in his shop or even just to gather and talk. That right to gather should not be abridged. Sure, one can say, " global pandemic global pandemic safety safety, for the public good, the unvaxxed can't enter." I say that's unconstitutional. Especially the sleight of hand of the never-ending emergency. And we've seen lots of this with gyms and restaurants whose owners want to stay open and to do business with vaxxed and unvaxxed alike, but the public authorities won't let them, because allegedly it puts everyone at risk.

Well, this is on the business owner to fight, since the restrictions have been put on business owners. And I absolutely think they should.

The owner of Basilico's in Huntington Beach comes to mind, as he has defied all masking and shutdown orders since March of 2020-


View: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8Fhv-hp3CSA

That depends on the activities one engages in. You might think other people's choices are foolish; they often are. E.g. I know you think it's a waste of time to pursue an undergraduate or graduate degree; I would tend to agree, under the current circumstances. But we are essentially creating a caste system now where some people are free to pursue all sorts of education, careers, recreation, travel, and other undertakings—because they've undergone a medical treatment--and others will be lucky if they are left with even the liberty to go to parks and "netflix and chill." If you've "felt ZERO pressure to take the demonvax" you must live a pretty isolated existence or be fairly off grid. Congratulations. But for many people the threat of being let go from work or not able to complete a degree (and sunk cost of time invested) or to be barred from restaurants, gyms, etc. constitutes a major stressor and serious pressure. Coercion. Force. Not to mention the constant gaslighting, propaganda, social pressure. Sure, people are not being physically beaten with clubs or punched in the face—at the moment—but force is being used.

I am nowhere near "off grid," nor would I say I live an "isolated" existence. You can search my previous posts if you want, I have gone to Vegas several times during this obviously fake pandemic, and continued to frequent restaurants in 2020 and most of 2021.

I would have to imagine that everyone that feels a "major stressor" of not going to restaurants and gyms and such still lived through the months of March/April/May/June of 2020, where those things were seriously limited or not at all available. So, it's not like it's 2019 them being forced with this sudden decision.

Yes, I see the things you talk about, but it's still nowhere near as restrictive as you make it out to be. Plenty of the unvaxxed have traveled, even by plane, in recent times, the vax passes are only in limited big cities. I haven't had my job threatened yet, but did you see that this thread was about the Supreme Court BLOCKING that mandate? It's not like there is zero resistance, even within some of the branches of the Federal Government.

It's not beyond ludicrous. It's not "a certain bar." Depending on where you live, it's all bars, all restaurants. You read the threads on Austria, etc. You're not ignorant of this. We're in a better position here in the U.S., but only somewhat, and it's precarious.

Why do you keep on bringing up countries like Austria in a thread that is clearly about issues specific to the United States of America? We are in a different position here because of the core differences in how our country was setup, especially in the fact that the people are sovereign. The position is not just "somewhat" different, it's massively different. The only reason anything in The Republic is "precarious" is due to people not knowing about their status, and/or not taking responsibility for it.

So you think having to lie and misrepresent because all your options have been cut off is okay and does not constitute coercion. OK.

I don't think "all my options" have been cut off. I don't think that's the case for anyone else, either. I don't use a fake vax card myself, I don't think I have to lie, nor do I represent myself. I think you are setting up a false dichotomy.

I see this for what it is.... a contract dispute. In some places, the government may be trying to force the hand of businesses, but it's still just a contract dispute.

Sure. But being restricted to a very limited range of possibilities, and perhaps not even being able to leave one's home, because the nation has turned into a fear-addled prison state is anything but "freedom."

Where has this happened in the United States of America? What you describe isn't even accurate for New York City.

While no doubt, some people locked themselves in their homes for much of this time, I never did, and there is no way I would describe this nation as a "fear addled prison." Not even most big cities.

And I'm not proposing "getting drunk in a nightclub" as the highest good. Nevertheless, some form of fun/play is part of human life and flourishing. See, for example, Finnis' list of basic goods:

Those are all being forcefully undermined by the restrictions put in place by government under the ruse of keeping us safe.

True, the government did attempt to undermine this by putting restrictions on businesses, but nothing they did prevented anyone in this country from engaging in any of them at any time from March of 2020 until now.

 

[Old Irenaeus]

I am nowhere near "off grid," nor would I say I live an "isolated" existence. You can search my previous posts if you want, I have gone to Vegas several times during this obviously fake pandemic, and continued to frequent restaurants in 2020 and most of 2021.

That's good. That's basically what I do as well.

 

[Drareg]

This is exactly what will happen in all nations with decent constitutions, the whole saga was designed to circumnavigate constitutions that protect the people far better the UN’s human rights charter that is now a big business slave charter.
It was a clear power grab by the ruling class, the health act and war time acts are the weaknesses in western constitutions, this may be why they are trying to declare the climate emergency a war.

Any other weakness in the constitution that allows its suspension will likely be the next port of call for ruling class, anybody know them?

 

[Mito]

View: https://twitter.com/chuckcallesto/status/1482356891997118464?s=21

 

[Old Irenaeus]

View: https://twitter.com/chuckcallesto/status/1482356891997118464?s=21

Now THAT's good news! Nullification. States rights.

 

[Fred]

Scotland Herald: "DOUBLE-JABBED Scots are now more likely to be admitted to hospital with Covid than the unvaccinated"

 

[Frankdee20]

This really doesn’t matter in the liberal ***t hole of NYC. Three days before the piece of ***t DiBlasio left office, a citywide mandate for all private and public sector companies are now required to have a fully vaccinated staff.

 

[Herbie]

View attachment 32335

Notice the difference in their necks between for and against.

 

[Old Irenaeus]

Notice the difference in their necks between for and against.

What do you see?

 

[LA]

It really pains me when people like Sotomayer are referred to as "liberals." Traditionally liberals believe in maximum freedom for the individual limited only by the equivalent freedom of others as opposed to the conservative belief in subjection to traditional authority such as the king or the church. The Sotomayors of the world are more accurately called by the other name they claim, "progressive." Progressives believe in using the coercive power of the state to ensure all people are made safe and equal according to plans envisioned by a "benevolent" intellectual elite. They are in fact collectivists who believe the good of the many trumps the good of the few and so are willing to sacrifice the liberty and life of the few for what they believe to be the good of the collective. "Your body, Our choice," would thus be their motto in the present case.

I was going to call them lib-tards and realized I need to show respect to the Classic Liberals who are struggling to find a way to save our democracy via bipartisanship.
Regressive progressive-lefty dem.on.crats stasi oppressives all enjoy yelling, screaming and misbehaving. They will never be part of the 1-percent who plan to turn the entire world into their own serfdom.
George Bush and Joe Biden both gave speeches on the need for a New World Order.

 

[LA]

Notice the difference in their necks between for and against.

yes
except for the one senior fellow in the front row they don’t appear to be healthy. Also Sonia Sotomayor has Diabetes. Justice Kavanaugh also has the beginnings of the same weird hang behind his chin. He voted with the liberal justices to allow the mandate on healthcare workers in Medicare and Medicaid funded institutions. Sometimes some of the larger hospitals such as Cedars-Sinai in Beverly Hills offer a slimmed down plan for Medicare - Medicaid clients. Many of those doctors at Cedars do not accept those patients.

Perhaps they have thyroid problems.
I know someone who had a fat step-mother (the step-mother from hell) who was on thyroid. She weighed about 400 pounds and had one of those lumpy, rippled under the chin blobs of fat. No one stays sweet-sixteen forever although most aging necks of seniors close to 80yrs (whether slim or chubby) are closer to those who voted against

 

[LA]

What do you see?

 

[Old Irenaeus]

They look like turkeys.

 

[Donttreadonme]

But it's clearly not "force." There is no "right" to go to restaurants, coffee shops, opera, concerts, theatres, gyms, yoga studios, or nightclubs. In fact, all of these commercial enterprises were closed in New York during March/April 2020, and some longer. Nor is there a "right" to a "normal existence." And what would a "normal existence" be defined as, anyways? Things like gyms and yoga studios were rarely frequented by the majority of people prior to the 1980s, and nightclubs also seem like a more recent venue.

Even if they then consent to taking the vaccine to gain access to these commercial venues, there is no way anyone was "forced" to do so. It's clear people have several other options, from moving, to only frequenting such places in other cities/states (not so hard to do from New York City), boycott such venues, attempt to go to such venues in open defiance of such ordinance, or fake up a vaccine card (which many people are doing). I knew so many people in college that got fake IDs to go to bars and buy alcohol, but now, everyone thinks that filling out a vaccine card is a Herculean task that somehow only a demi-god could possibly accomplish.

I agree that they are trying to get people to yield offering them cheap trinkets and hollow experiences, but such petty bribes certainly don't raise to the level of force or coercion, as far as the dictionary definition of those words.

You have zero zero zero understanding of the constitution. It doesn't say you have a right to wipe your butt either. The rights in the bill of rights dont come from the document.... They come from god or the creator and it clearly says the rights not listed are still rights.

The bill of rights isn't a executable java program

If you lack common sense then America isn't for you

 

[Donttreadonme]

I see doughy people who need other people to tie their shoes

 

[tankasnowgod]

You have zero zero zero understanding of the constitution. It doesn't say you have a right to wipe your butt either.

Why would it? It's a document aimed at the Federal Government. If you don't understand this very simple concept, then you have zero zero zero understanding of the Constitution.

And another question.... if I have "zero zero zero" understanding of the document, how come I'm the one that directly quotes clauses and amendments, and you do no such thing?

The rights in the bill of rights dont come from the document.... They come from god or the creator and it clearly says the rights not listed are still rights.

Yep, I totally get that. The Constitution and the Bill of Rights don't grant you any rights. They put restrictions on government to protect rights you already had. You don't have "Constitutional Rights," you have "Constitutionally Protected Rights."

What you don't seem to get is that Medicare and Medicaid are Benefits (not rights) that clearly come from the Federal Government, and not from the Creator. Also, the Constitution itself clearly gives Congress the right to regulate Interstate Commerce, in Article 1, Section 8, Clause 3. So, it certainly makes sense the Federal Government has the right to regulate the benefits that they created, and rights expressly granted to them in the Constitution.

The bill of rights isn't a executable java program

I said nothing about computer programming languages or coffee, so this is completely irrelevant.

If you lack common sense then America isn't for you

My arguments are routed specifically in the Constitution, and Supreme Court precedents. If you don't understand that those two trump "common sense," especially when it comes to what the Federal Government can and can't do, then I think you've lost this argument, and have resorted to baseless attacks.

 

[Herbie]

yes
except for the one senior fellow in the front row they don’t appear to be healthy. Also Sonia Sotomayor has Diabetes. Justice Kavanaugh also has the beginnings of the same weird hang behind his chin. He voted with the liberal justices to allow the mandate on healthcare workers in Medicare and Medicaid funded institutions. Sometimes some of the larger hospitals such as Cedars-Sinai in Beverly Hills offer a slimmed down plan for Medicare - Medicaid clients. Many of those doctors at Cedars do not accept those patients.

Perhaps they have thyroid problems.
I know someone who had a fat step-mother (the step-mother from hell) who was on thyroid. She weighed about 400 pounds and had one of those lumpy, rippled under the chin blobs of fat. No one stays sweet-sixteen forever although most aging necks of seniors close to 80yrs (whether slim or chubby) are closer to those who voted against

I’d wager they are on cholesterol lowering drugs because it’s a sign of not producing sex hormones and or thyroid hormones. Definitely signs of a chronically stressed organism which I wouldn’t trust to make a decision.

 

[Perry Staltic]

I was going to call them lib-tards and realized I need to show respect to the Classic Liberals who are struggling to find a way to save our democracy via bipartisanship.

Progtards. Woketards. Neither are classical liberals