Previously skinny-fat guys, what made the biggest difference in getting a toned, muscular physique?

[Adf]

I'll add a few points here with the caveat that I've been training since 2008 so it has been a decent journey.

First point:
Are you properly hydrated every day? I don't mean do you drink enough water, but do you have adequate mineral intake, but specifically potassium? I've been on the Potassium/Taurine hype train lately, (called K-Water) because it has substantially helped me with symptoms of hormone imbalance.

K Water ( PTB) : Free Download, Borrow, and Streaming : Internet Archive

Hypothesis on Potassium Taurine Bicarb, K-Water

archive.org

Most people are likely potassium deficient, because sodium and potassium compete for the same channels, so they sort of cancel each other out. Too much sodium will skew the balance toward potassium deficiency.
You might also want to get a hormone profile done by an endo to see if there's issues there.


Second point:
How do you train? Do you follow the training methods of what everybody and their grandmother online tell you to do? Or do you train more instinctively to how your body feels?
I ask this because 99% of people online will tell you that as a natural lifter, you need to lift heavy. 6 to 12 reps with heavy weight. This was how I trained in the first 8 or so years of my lifting life, doing what every other fitness personality would parrot, and to be fair it did help me build somewhat of a foundation at least for my upper body.

However personally my legs did not grow with heavy lifting, this made me hate training legs. Especially having scoliosis too. So a couple of years ago I thought, since heavy isn't working, in fact it was hurting, I will train legs with light/moderate weight with high reps. It was here that I realised I had been training inefficiently (for myself) this whole time. Doing goblet squats in cardio intervals, 15-20 reps a set, strict 60 second break, 10 sets. In just a few months of Doing this 2-3 times a week my legs grew so much more than all of my years of heavy lifting. So I did this with every other body part and what do you know? Muscles exploded as if I had 'newbie gains' again.

To compare this with your situation, I also trained my friend this way, he would pay me $50 bucks a week to put him through a couple good workouts. He is tall (6'2"), lanky, wiry and skinny fat as you would say but he had no trouble adding visible definition and size to his muscles with intense high rep training.
Perhaps you might want to find a training partner who will push you harder.

 

[GreekDemiGod]

This is very obvious and I'm surprised no one else mentioned it. The antidote to skinny fat is high protein diet. That does not mean lowering carbs, not at all. Just make sure you eat a high protein diet, 150g/ day or so for an average built individual.
Protein is the secret to easily become leaner.

Skinny fat syndrome is most often caused by high carb AND high fat diet combination.

 

[Adf]

This is very obvious and I'm surprised no one else mentioned it. The antidote to skinny fat is high protein diet. That does not mean lowering carbs, not at all. Just make sure you eat a high protein diet, 150g/ day or so for an average built individual.
Protein is the secret to easily become leaner.

Skinny fat syndrome is most often caused by high carb AND high fat diet combination.

I think no one mentioned it probably for two reasons. OP stated they have tried increasing protein in their initial post and said it was among one of the things that causes negative issues for them.

Also eat more protein is in every single Top 5 list on the internet to gaining muscle or losing fat. Most people like myself would just assume everyone knows this by now. You'd have to be living under a seriously large rock in order to not know it, so I'm guessing people wouldn't bother suggesting it.

 

[toolhead]

How do you train? Do you follow the training methods of what everybody and their grandmother online tell you to do? Or do you train more instinctively to how your body feels?
I ask this because 99% of people online will tell you that as a natural lifter, you need to lift heavy. 6 to 12 reps with heavy weight. This was how I trained in the first 8 or so years of my lifting life, doing what every other fitness personality would parrot, and to be fair it did help me build somewhat of a foundation at least for my upper body.

However personally my legs did not grow with heavy lifting, this made me hate training legs. Especially having scoliosis too. So a couple of years ago I thought, since heavy isn't working, in fact it was hurting, I will train legs with light/moderate weight with high reps. It was here that I realised I had been training inefficiently (for myself) this whole time. Doing goblet squats in cardio intervals, 15-20 reps a set, strict 60 second break, 10 sets. In just a few months of Doing this 2-3 times a week my legs grew so much more than all of my years of heavy lifting. So I did this with every other

Yes and YES. I didn’t go into the details of my training regimen, but I eventually realized “Bro Advice” to “EAT MOAR PROTEIN” or “DO HEAVY COMPOUND LIFTS SQUAT/DEADS/BENCH 5x5” are not always applicable, particularly for skinny fats with low recuperative ability, especially if they are tall and lanky with poor biomechanics due to limb length leverages and shitty muscle insertions.

Sometimes high-rep, high-volume, open-chain isolation exercises can benefit such people.

 

[meeka]

I would suggest gelatin. Try to get around 2 or 3 tablespoons before bed. A year ago I struggled with really bad insomnia, but by consuming 4 tablespoons of gelatin everyday and training twice a week for about 30 minutes I was still able to put on muscle while sleeping 4 hours per day.

I am not recommending this. My progress wasn't amazing and nor did I develop an crazy physique. But I did put on enough muscle for my girlfriend to notice and a couple of close friends. Haidut has a post which shows that moderate doses of glycine can restore the anabolic effects of leucine under highly inflammatory conditions.

Glycine Is Directly Anabolic AND Anticatabolic For The Muscle

I posted a few interesting studies about glycine in the past. Among the interesting properties are lowering cortisol, increasing DHT synthesis, improving insulin sensitivity, and serving as a biomarker of stress. Glycine Powerfully Lowers Cortisol Glycine Strongly Upregulates 5-alpha Reductase...

raypeatforum.com

 

[Adf]

Yes and YES. I didn’t go into the details of my training regimen, but I eventually realized “Bro Advice” to “EAT MOAR PROTEIN” or “DO HEAVY COMPOUND LIFTS SQUAT/DEADS/BENCH 5x5” are not always applicable, particularly for skinny fats with low recuperative ability, especially if they are tall and lanky with poor biomechanics due to limb length leverages and shitty muscle insertions.

Sometimes high-rep, high-volume, open-chain isolation exercises can benefit such people.

Definitely, the best exercises in my experience are mostly compound. Dips, chin-ups, shoulder press, squats. Doing them with high reps/lower weight allows you to breathe through several reps instead of one breath per one rep. It's far less stressful on the nervous system and joints, however far more stressful on the muscles themselves which is why it works so much better at growing them. I also enjoy combining exercises to increase the compound, such as adding a seated bicep curl into a shoulder press. It's time efficient and simply more fun.

 

[Madlash]

Consider taking thyroid if you haven't already. When you get the dose right your energy and desire for daily physical exercise will increase.

 

[GreekDemiGod]

Yes and YES. I didn’t go into the details of my training regimen, but I eventually realized “Bro Advice” to “EAT MOAR PROTEIN” or “DO HEAVY COMPOUND LIFTS SQUAT/DEADS/BENCH 5x5” are not always applicable, particularly for skinny fats with low recuperative ability, especially if they are tall and lanky with poor biomechanics due to limb length leverages and shitty muscle insertions.

Sometimes high-rep, high-volume, open-chain isolation exercises can benefit such people.

Low recuperative ability? That's another reason to do higher protein and high calories.
Try to eat 100g of protein for a week, and then eat 200g of protein the next week. You will feel the difference.

 

[thisoldtown1978]

I'll add a few points here with the caveat that I've been training since 2008 so it has been a decent journey.

First point:
Are you properly hydrated every day? I don't mean do you drink enough water, but do you have adequate mineral intake, but specifically potassium? I've been on the Potassium/Taurine hype train lately, (called K-Water) because it has substantially helped me with symptoms of hormone imbalance.

K Water ( PTB) : Free Download, Borrow, and Streaming : Internet Archive

Hypothesis on Potassium Taurine Bicarb, K-Water

archive.org

Most people are likely potassium deficient, because sodium and potassium compete for the same channels, so they sort of cancel each other out. Too much sodium will skew the balance toward potassium deficiency.
You might also want to get a hormone profile done by an endo to see if there's issues there.


Second point:
How do you train? Do you follow the training methods of what everybody and their grandmother online tell you to do? Or do you train more instinctively to how your body feels?
I ask this because 99% of people online will tell you that as a natural lifter, you need to lift heavy. 6 to 12 reps with heavy weight. This was how I trained in the first 8 or so years of my lifting life, doing what every other fitness personality would parrot, and to be fair it did help me build somewhat of a foundation at least for my upper body.

However personally my legs did not grow with heavy lifting, this made me hate training legs. Especially having scoliosis too. So a couple of years ago I thought, since heavy isn't working, in fact it was hurting, I will train legs with light/moderate weight with high reps. It was here that I realised I had been training inefficiently (for myself) this whole time. Doing goblet squats in cardio intervals, 15-20 reps a set, strict 60 second break, 10 sets. In just a few months of Doing this 2-3 times a week my legs grew so much more than all of my years of heavy lifting. So I did this with every other body part and what do you know? Muscles exploded as if I had 'newbie gains' again.

To compare this with your situation, I also trained my friend this way, he would pay me $50 bucks a week to put him through a couple good workouts. He is tall (6'2"), lanky, wiry and skinny fat as you would say but he had no trouble adding visible definition and size to his muscles with intense high rep training.
Perhaps you might want to find a training partner who will push you harder.

Thanks for this. I've been curious about the sodoium / potassium balance since learning more about acid-base balance in the body and chronically elevated cortisol. I think ever since starting to train, I've been on a high sodium diet, so this is certainly something to bear in mind.

And no, to be honest, I've never, ever considered doing high-rep exercises, purely because no one ever recommends that online. Perhaps it's a certain muscle or hormonal profile? I'll certain consider this, thank you. It's worth a try!

 

[thisoldtown1978]

This is very obvious and I'm surprised no one else mentioned it. The antidote to skinny fat is high protein diet. That does not mean lowering carbs, not at all. Just make sure you eat a high protein diet, 150g/ day or so for an average built individual.
Protein is the secret to easily become leaner.

Skinny fat syndrome is most often caused by high carb AND high fat diet combination.

Thank you - I think I worry about the inflammatory amino acids from too much meat, and also struggle to eat such low fat with so much protein. I know meat isn't the only protein source, but it's certainly the tastiest in my book.

 

[thisoldtown1978]

Same thing happened to me. I was also getting over a slight eating disorder, and I just ballooned right up in the face when I started bulking and it looks very bad when I look back on pictures from that time. It will all work out and your body will eventually recomp without you even trying and you’ll lose the puffiness. You have to trust the process, I’m talking 3 years. I know there’s a chance you could have something very wrong with your hormones, but it seems more likely it’s a simple matter of needing to put on muscle and being in a caloric surplus over a long period of time. Finding the sweet spot of training volume is also important, meaning not over training, but still having intense enough workouts to stimulate growth. The aesthetics will eventually come.

Thanks, Hayley, this is comforting. Glad it worked out for you. I feel like my body has gone through many cycles / processes whilst following Peat's advice. All in all, I look much healthier than I used to. Getting leaner is the next mountain to climb!

 

[brix]

Interested as well in trying high rep, low weight. How much weight are you squatting at 15-20 reps? Please share regimen @Ada

 

[Hayley]

I'll add a few points here with the caveat that I've been training since 2008 so it has been a decent journey.

First point:
Are you properly hydrated every day? I don't mean do you drink enough water, but do you have adequate mineral intake, but specifically potassium? I've been on the Potassium/Taurine hype train lately, (called K-Water) because it has substantially helped me with symptoms of hormone imbalance.

K Water ( PTB) : Free Download, Borrow, and Streaming : Internet Archive

Hypothesis on Potassium Taurine Bicarb, K-Water

archive.org

Most people are likely potassium deficient, because sodium and potassium compete for the same channels, so they sort of cancel each other out. Too much sodium will skew the balance toward potassium deficiency.
You might also want to get a hormone profile done by an endo to see if there's issues there.


Second point:
How do you train? Do you follow the training methods of what everybody and their grandmother online tell you to do? Or do you train more instinctively to how your body feels?
I ask this because 99% of people online will tell you that as a natural lifter, you need to lift heavy. 6 to 12 reps with heavy weight. This was how I trained in the first 8 or so years of my lifting life, doing what every other fitness personality would parrot, and to be fair it did help me build somewhat of a foundation at least for my upper body.

However personally my legs did not grow with heavy lifting, this made me hate training legs. Especially having scoliosis too. So a couple of years ago I thought, since heavy isn't working, in fact it was hurting, I will train legs with light/moderate weight with high reps. It was here that I realised I had been training inefficiently (for myself) this whole time. Doing goblet squats in cardio intervals, 15-20 reps a set, strict 60 second break, 10 sets. In just a few months of Doing this 2-3 times a week my legs grew so much more than all of my years of heavy lifting. So I did this with every other body part and what do you know? Muscles exploded as if I had 'newbie gains' again.

To compare this with your situation, I also trained my friend this way, he would pay me $50 bucks a week to put him through a couple good workouts. He is tall (6'2"), lanky, wiry and skinny fat as you would say but he had no trouble adding visible definition and size to his muscles with intense high rep training.
Perhaps you might want to find a training partner who will push you harder.

I like this last point, and it reminds me of Arnold’s quote about his different muscle groups having different personalities. I think you discover this about yourself over time. For me, I’m in the opposite camp. My legs grew in size once I stopped all the accessories and just did more heavy squat variations. My triceps and shoulders on the other hand require serious volume at lighter weights to grow.

 

[Hayley]

Yes and YES. I didn’t go into the details of my training regimen, but I eventually realized “Bro Advice” to “EAT MOAR PROTEIN” or “DO HEAVY COMPOUND LIFTS SQUAT/DEADS/BENCH 5x5” are not always applicable, particularly for skinny fats with low recuperative ability, especially if they are tall and lanky with poor biomechanics due to limb length leverages and shitty muscle insertions.

Sometimes high-rep, high-volume, open-chain isolation exercises can benefit such people.

No matter the rep range, what possible argument or explanation could you have for isolation exercises being better than compound lifts?

 

[Jonk]

especially if they are tall and lanky with poor biomechanics due to limb length leverages and shitty muscle insertions.

This is me. Was always skinny growing up and a very "lax" frame probably due to genetics but probably also because of intestinal dysfunction and hypothyroidism. Because I was very skinny obviously I went to the gym to get bigger, but could only do it consistently for about a month before I got injured or sick. I think this is very important to keep in mind especially in a gym culture that promotes pushing through pain. If you're "naturally" skinny fat that's probably more a symptom of an underlying issue that needs to be addressed before routinely putting heavy load on a barbell.

 

[jaype]

Collagen and more milk consumption seems to be helping me, even when not training consistently.

 

[toolhead]

No matter the rep range, what possible argument or explanation could you have for isolation exercises being better than compound lifts?

Sorry if I wasn’t clear. I do compound lifts as well but no longer focus on them exclusively.

 

[Adf]

Thanks for this. I've been curious about the sodoium / potassium balance since learning more about acid-base balance in the body and chronically elevated cortisol. I think ever since starting to train, I've been on a high sodium diet, so this is certainly something to bear in mind.

And no, to be honest, I've never, ever considered doing high-rep exercises, purely because no one ever recommends that online. Perhaps it's a certain muscle or hormonal profile? I'll certain consider this, thank you. It's worth a try!

This was my experience also. I never thought to train light weight because nobody says too. I only discovered it due to scoliosis making it too difficult for me to train heavy legs to get any results.
For me personally, high reps works better than heavy/low reps for all my muscle groups. It still has to be intense training to work, it's not a relaxed workout just because you're lifting lighter. High reps is harder because your muscles start to burn way before they or your nervous system completely fatigues, so you are doing many burning reps each set.

Of course everyone is different, I thought it important to mention because it works for myself, who's not skinny fat at all, but also worked just as well for my friend, who is very skinny fat.

 

[Adf]

I like this last point, and it reminds me of Arnold’s quote about his different muscle groups having different personalities. I think you discover this about yourself over time.

For me, I’m in the opposite camp. My legs grew in size once I stopped all the accessories and just did more heavy squat variations. My triceps and shoulders on the other hand require serious volume at lighter weights to grow.

I often find accessories can be good in certain situations, some are needed imo like one that specifically trains hamstrings, because squats train the quads and glutes much more than hamstrings, and can cause an imbalance down the line that could lead to injury. But often times accessories take away precious time and energy from the exercises that work much better. For example It's better to squat 10 sets, and do a few hamstring curls, than to squat 3 sets, and do several other various accessory exercises that fill in the other sets.

 

[76er]

No matter the rep range, what possible argument or explanation could you have for isolation exercises being better than compound lifts?

I switched over completely to isolation after reading The Physics of Resistance Exercise.

Here are some free content explaining the rational.