Previously skinny-fat guys, what made the biggest difference in getting a toned, muscular physique?

parallax

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No matter the rep range, what possible argument or explanation could you have for isolation exercises being better than compound lifts?
Sortof a niche case, but for me it can be thought of as the ratio of muscle stimulation to calorie burn. When I do a comprehensive split with compound lifts my calorie burn is so high that my hunger goes through the roof and I have a hard time dieting. Isolation movements allow me to stimulate the muscle without totally revving up the metabolism. I get optimal results from a lot of low-intensity non-exercise thermogenesis and relatively light workouts, but then I have already built a strong base physique. edit: splellelelellling
 
A

Adf

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Interested as well in trying high rep, low weight. How much weight are you squatting at 15-20 reps? Please share regimen @Ada
Hi Brix, sure. For the leg routine start with a set of Hamstring curls. Do 1 complete rep that consists of many micro-reps. That is, curl the weight to the top, then do roughly 20-30 one inch micro-reps at the top, then lower it midway and do 20-30 more, then lower it all the way to the bottom and do 20-30 more. Keep the glutes squeezed and hips pressed into the bench throughout the entire process. Then only if you want to, do the same thing for dumbbell calf raises. Just 1 burning set of each. You can experiment this training style with other body parts if you like.

After that do the squats, using a weight where you gas out/fail at 30 reps. Except do 15-20 reps at that weight. Rest for a strict 60 seconds and do 10 sets.

Either grab one dumbbell and do goblet squats, or two dumbbells and hold them on the shoulders and do dumbbell squats. However if you are comfortable hogging a squat rack or smith machine in the gym for 20 minutes, you can use a barbell for this too as long as you have safeties.

For all other muscle groups do one main compound lift and 2 accessory lifts. Use either a Century/Marathon Set for the compound lift and what I call an Epic Pyramid set for accessories.

Marathon/Century set - Use a moderate weight where you fail at roughly 20 reps. Do this until complete failure. Rest a strict 30 seconds, then repeat. Keep doing this until 100 reps is achieved.

Epic Pyramid set - If you own dumbbells, this is best done at home. Otherwise you can 'run the rack' so to speak.
Dumbbells of 5 different weights ranging from extremely light, to moderately light. For example 5 pounds, 8 pounds, 12 pounds, 16 pounds, 20 pounds. Only one rest break as detailed below.
50 reps - 5 pounds
40 reps - 8 pounds
30 reps - 12 pounds
20 reps - 16 pounds
10 reps - 20 pounds
Rest a strict 60 seconds
10 reps at 20 pounds
20 reps - 16 pounds
30 reps - 12 pounds
40 reps - 8 pounds
50 reps - 5 pounds

If you have a certain lagging muscle you want to focus on more, you can add 1 exercise for that muscle as a warmup exercise, to every workout you do. Do 1 set of 30-50 burning lightweight reps, every warmup, every workout.

The keys to the high rep training style is breathing deeply through multiple reps, not 1 breath per rep, and have control of the weight at all times i.e. No dropping, bouncing, stretch reflex etc.
 

Dr. B

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1) Actually count your calories and weigh your food. Use an App if needed.

2) Eat at least 0.8g of protein per lb of Bodyweight

3) Eat lots of red meat and eggs

4) Buy skin calipers and figure out your bodyfat percentage. If you are over 15%, don't even bother bulking, you'll just get fatter and smoother.

5) (probably most important) Stop training like a p***y and bust your **** in the gym for MINIMUM 45 mins, 3 days a week on anaerobic exercises. Find a bodybuilding inspired routine which focuses on hypertrophy. Try to hit each muscle group twice a week, ideally. There's nothing wrong with acute high stress. Don't just go through the motions. Look at yourself in the mirror and get angry for motivation. This 'negative' motivation can be really powerful. You should be slightly nervous before your workouts because you know you are about to do something hard. Postworkout, you should feel proud because you know you gave it your all. If you don't have these feelings, you are not providing enough stimulus for muscle growth.

6) Have a goal and take steps to reach it weekly. Whether that be fat loss (calorie deficit) or getting stronger (do more sets, reps, or weight each week in the gym) Log weight loss or strength gains somewhere to see your progression. Take photos to compare throughout the months.

7) Bonus) Vitamin B6 in the form of (P5P) is effective at lowering prolactin. Ensure other vitamin deciencies are met.

eggs have too much pufa and meat too much phosphorus. the vitamin p5p, i dont think its safe to constantly use it, use significant doses or both. it lowers prolactin but has other issues. olive leaf extract or just drinking lots of calcium, like half gallon whole grass fed milk which has both k2 and calcium and some b6, is a safer way to do it.

Lift weights with focus and intensity and cut down or stop eating sugar, refined carbs, carbs in general.

organic cane sugar should be a great general carb source, it's hard to get all the carbs from fruits/fruit juices/lactose if youre going for 400g+ carbs daily. the cane sugar is better than pasta, rice, bread, etc. it can be tough to drink a lot of liquid, so cane sugar is a good fill in to add to milk for some carbs.
 

RollingStone

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organic cane sugar should be a great general carb source, it's hard to get all the carbs from fruits/fruit juices/lactose if youre going for 400g+ carbs daily. the cane sugar is better than pasta, rice, bread, etc. it can be tough to drink a lot of liquid, so cane sugar is a good fill in to add to milk for some carbs.
He asked how to get lean and muscular, not how to get soft as quickly as possible.
 

crazypatriot

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Oct 19, 2020
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I’ve gotten in the best shape of my life consuming a diet based around full-fat milk and white sugar.

Because calories in vs calories out. You are great at portion control and/or measure your food.

Personally I don't find large amounts of cane sugar filling/satisfying enough to be worth the calories when trying to stay lean, and I think the average lifter would agree.
 

Vileplume

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Because calories in vs calories out. You are great at portion control and/or measure your food.

Personally I don't find large amounts of cane sugar filling/satisfying enough to be worth the calories when trying to stay lean, and I think the average lifter would agree.
Oddly, I'm eating more calories now than I did two years ago, when I was gaining weight. Back then, my diet was mostly fruit and meat--much lower fat, but causing more gut irritation. Probably 2500 calories per day then, above 3500 daily now. The weight came off quick, and I've never paid any attention to portion control.

Reducing inflammation through easily digested food (and proper metabolism) makes it so much easier for your body to turn calories into heat, raising the "calories out" without having to spend extra hours in the gym. I imagine that's part of why, according to Dr. Peat, milk drinkers are generally thinner than non-milk drinkers.
 

crazypatriot

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Oddly, I'm eating more calories now than I did two years ago, when I was gaining weight. Back then, my diet was mostly fruit and meat--much lower fat, but causing more gut irritation. Probably 2500 calories per day then, above 3500 daily now. The weight came off quick, and I've never paid any attention to portion control.

Reducing inflammation through easily digested food (and proper metabolism) makes it so much easier for your body to turn calories into heat, raising the "calories out" without having to spend extra hours in the gym. I imagine that's part of why, according to Dr. Peat, milk drinkers are generally thinner than non-milk drinkers.

What is your TDEE? TDEE Calculator: Learn Your Total Daily Energy Expenditure
Bodyfat percent? Active job?

I don't know how some guys on this forum claim to eat 3000-4000 calories without getting a bit chubby while doing minimal exercise. I don't see how the thermic effect of food could account for 1000+ additional calories, Healthy metabolism or not.

I've weight trained for almost 10 years and was only able to consistently eat over 3000 calories -- without gaining fat -- when I was lifting 2 hrs a day, 5 days a week and my job was on my feet. Though I'm short at 5'6
 

Korven

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What is your TDEE? TDEE Calculator: Learn Your Total Daily Energy Expenditure
Bodyfat percent? Active job?

I don't know how some guys on this forum claim to eat 3000-4000 calories without getting a bit chubby while doing minimal exercise. I don't see how the thermic effect of food could account for 1000+ additional calories, Healthy metabolism or not.

I've weight trained for almost 10 years and was only able to consistently eat over 3000 calories -- without gaining fat -- when I was lifting 2 hrs a day, 5 days a week and my job was on my feet. Though I'm short at 5'6
Not answering for @Vileplume but I can easily eat 3000-3500 calories per day, live a mostly sedentary lifestyle and not gain any weight. For me it's just how my metabolism works I guess (calories wasted through NEAT or thermic effect). If I want to add mass I have to weight train and consistently eat north of 4000 calories per day.
 

piro444

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italy
Check your hormones
Balance your diet by looking at food you digest well (I mean extremely well, almost like water, if you feel that you ate after a bit of time, maybe change sources)
Eat more frequently and with small bites, chewing 30/40 times at least (gotta get muddy, an ice cream consistency in your mouth)
Fix your posture and drink more, the skinnyfat look is given by an unfortunate fat disposal, which is mostly due to gravity (thus having a better posture will create a better environment for the fat to “flow”. I’ve never seen a skinnyfat guy with a right posture)
You don’t want to fix “the fat” but rather how it moves
Also, lower your inflammation, fat is pro-inflammatory so you gotta keep the right balance
 

joshwelborn

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Mar 29, 2022
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No matter the rep range, what possible argument or explanation could you have for isolation exercises being better than compound lifts?
I would look into Doug Brignole for this, especially for a skinny fat person and/or someone with long limbs. His podcasts with Mark Bell and subsequently his book changed my lifting approach and improved results dramatically with less injuries. He challenges some sacred cows.
 

76er

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I would look into Doug Brignole for this, especially for a skinny fat person and/or someone with long limbs. His podcasts with Mark Bell and subsequently his book changed my lifting approach and improved results dramatically with less injuries. He challenges some sacred cows.
💯
 

Dr. B

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Mar 16, 2021
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He asked how to get lean and muscular, not how to get soft as quickly as possible.

replacing starch carbs with sugar carbs is exactly the way to do that. it's actually pretty hard to do and maintain, because you don't get the unnaturally stuffed full feeling that you get from starch carbs. but if you can manage to maintain 400g carbs of sugars instead of 400g carbs from starches for example, there would be noticeable benefits.
Because calories in vs calories out. You are great at portion control and/or measure your food.

Personally I don't find large amounts of cane sugar filling/satisfying enough to be worth the calories when trying to stay lean, and I think the average lifter would agree.

you aren't supposed to feel stuffed full anyway, it is an unnatural effect from eating slow digesting, water absorbing starch foods. if you're trying to control appetite then starchy foods can be useful for limiting calorie intake. but it doesn't really seem worth it since they cause inflammation. sugar being a mix of fructose/glucose means it would take significantly more sugar calories to get as fat compared to starch calories. the equivalency could be something like 150g sugar carbs = 100g starch carbs, due to the differences in inflammation and how each one affects the metabolism.
What is your TDEE? TDEE Calculator: Learn Your Total Daily Energy Expenditure
Bodyfat percent? Active job?

I don't know how some guys on this forum claim to eat 3000-4000 calories without getting a bit chubby while doing minimal exercise. I don't see how the thermic effect of food could account for 1000+ additional calories, Healthy metabolism or not.

I've weight trained for almost 10 years and was only able to consistently eat over 3000 calories -- without gaining fat -- when I was lifting 2 hrs a day, 5 days a week and my job was on my feet. Though I'm short at 5'6

it depends on what kind of fats and protein and carbs youre eating. calories are just one factor, each of the kinds of proteins/fats/carbs burn differently. youll get a very different effect from a gallon of whole milk plus 150g sugar, vs all meat and rice for 3000 calories, vs a mix of meat, rice, milk and sugar. poor metabolism people can get seriously fat on under 2000 calories.
 

Runenight201

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Joined
Feb 18, 2018
Messages
1,942
Don’t forget about that lifestyle.

Sunlight + activity, good friends, flowers and pretty girls will decrease stress hormones which add to the skinny fat look.

Plus you’re overall mood will be way better. You could probably do the same through various drugs but at what cost?
 

RealNeat

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Jan 9, 2019
Messages
2,344
Location
HI
1) Actually count your calories and weigh your food. Use an App if needed.

2) Eat at least 0.8g of protein per lb of Bodyweight

3) Eat lots of red meat and eggs

4) Buy skin calipers and figure out your bodyfat percentage. If you are over 15%, don't even bother bulking, you'll just get fatter and smoother.

5) (probably most important) Stop training like a p***y and bust your **** in the gym for MINIMUM 45 mins, 3 days a week on anaerobic exercises. Find a bodybuilding inspired routine which focuses on hypertrophy. Try to hit each muscle group twice a week, ideally. There's nothing wrong with acute high stress. Don't just go through the motions. Look at yourself in the mirror and get angry for motivation. This 'negative' motivation can be really powerful. You should be slightly nervous before your workouts because you know you are about to do something hard. Postworkout, you should feel proud because you know you gave it your all. If you don't have these feelings, you are not providing enough stimulus for muscle growth.

6) Have a goal and take steps to reach it weekly. Whether that be fat loss (calorie deficit) or getting stronger (do more sets, reps, or weight each week in the gym) Log weight loss or strength gains somewhere to see your progression. Take photos to compare throughout the months.

7) Bonus) Vitamin B6 in the form of (P5P) is effective at lowering prolactin. Ensure other vitamin deciencies are met.
What a load of crap. It is precisely this mentality that lands people on this forum trying to fix what they broke.

Don't listen to this OP, this is reductionist body building dogma.

Stress from restriction.

Stress from worrying about restriction and weighing your food diminishing enjoyment.

Stress from focusing on body fat instead of health.

Stress from pushing yourself unnecessarily hard.

Stress from too much muscle meat and protein in general.



Literally the only good advice above is log your progress. Which can be done without going to boot camp...


Listen to Ray, lift in a relaxed fashion, lift heavy but don't kill your self. Have fun! Stay consistent and eat healthy. Don't restrict too much if you are already compromised health wise.
Form habits for the long run, if you do what the bro above suggests you'll burn out in months if not weeks.
 
Last edited:

Dr. B

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Joined
Mar 16, 2021
Messages
4,319
What a load of crap. It is precisely this mentality that lands people on this forum trying to fix what they broke.

Don't listen to this OP, this is reductionist body building dogma.

Stress from restriction.

Stress from worrying about restriction and weighing your food diminishing enjoyment.

Stress from focusing on body fat instead of health.

Stress from pushing yourself unnecessarily hard.

Stress from too much muscle meat and protein in general.



Literally the only good advice above is log your progress. Which can be done without going to boot camp...


Listen to Ray, lift in a relaxed fashion, lift heavy but don't kill your self. Have fun! Stay consistent and eat healthy. Don't restrict too much if you are already compromised health wise.
Form habits for the long run, if you do what the bro above suggests you'll burn out in months if not weeks.

would too much protein be an issue if its all from whole milk, yogurts, whey protein? what are the safe protein parameters, like is 1g per pound total bodyweight fine?

also the biggest cause of bodyfat issues, maybe even more than PUFA seems to be endotoxin. isnt endotoxin the main cause of the high bodyfat levels in some, and explains why some people are eating lots of PUFA often yet in leaner condition than others who may not be consuming much pufa. its the gut bacteria and endotoxin.
 
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