Low Toxin Lifestyle Nine Vitamin A Cod Liver Oil Advocates Die Young (A Popular Weston A Price Supplement)

[Clyde]

Cod liver has other things in it but it's especially high in vitamin a. It has some pufa in it too. Maybe fermenting it made it even worse but idk.

Those Ticking Time Bombs Going Off Are WAPF People Dying Too Young - David Gumpert

An unexpectedly large number of individuals connected to fermented cod liver oil and associated with the Weston A. Price Foundation are dying prematurely.

www.davidgumpert.com

Here is a list of nine individuals (in addition to Schmid and Nagel) associated with WAPF who have died what can only be categorized as premature deaths in the last few years; the information mostly comes from their friends and acquaintances, along with Internet postings. It isn’t meant to be a comprehensive list, since there are others who have died or are dying who aren’t included here:

— Kim Schuette, a WAPF board member and nutritionist associated with promotion of FCLO, died earlier this week, Christmas day, at age 59. She is one of three WAPF-associated individuals who have died of glioblastoma brain cancer. Her family had launched a GoFundMe campaign in recent weeks to raise $50,000 for expenses associated with Kim’s care. As of the time of her death, some $44,000 had been raised. According to the site: “Late this last May, Kim was surprisingly diagnosed with grade-four glioblastoma brain cancer. Neurologists found two masses, one on each side of her brain. Kim underwent two successful surgeries in the span of three weeks, and has spent the last five months in recovery. With a medical team comprised of some of the country’s leading glioblastoma experts at UCSD and her trusted colleagues in holistic health, Kim has persevered…..Early in November, Kim’s MRI revealed recurring tumors in her brain. This recurrence has brought new challenges, and is requiring new treatments as well as in-home health care.”

She encouraged use of FCLO for conditions like autism, and was understood from friends to have taken it.

—Cherie Calvert, who was a founding member of the WAPF board, died in late November of breast cancer; she was 63. Calvert wasn’t known to have recommended or taken the FCLO, but had remained with the board as it fought off demands that it step back from its enthusiastic endorsement of the Green Pasture product.

Maureen Diaz, a long-time WAPF member, wrote this on Cherie’s Facebook page Nov. 27: “My dear friend Cherie, lost her fight with cancer last evening. And I do mean fight, as she didn’t just do all the usual things, she truly fought with this disease furiously, but could not conquer it. Sometimes these things are bigger than can be managed no matter what we do, and so at least now the suffering is over for her. Those who knew Cherie, loved her, and all of us will miss her greatly. There is already a big hole in my own heart, and I know it can not be filled with anyone else.”

—Jessica Earle was a long-time WAPF enthusiast and mother, who died last month at age 44, also of glioblastoma stage IV. She was unusual in that she lived for six years with the brain cancer, apparently benefiting from treatment by a prominent alternative practitioner. She had a blog chronicling her illness and sought funds to help defray costs of her treatment.

—Eoin Miller, a WAPF chapter leader in Ireland, died in late 2017 from liver cancer. He was a GAPS practitioner and exercise scientist, and was only 34. He left behind a wife and young child. He promoted FCLO and is understood to have taken it.

—Jim Canty, the husband of Kristin Canty, died in April 2017 from glioblastoma. He was 54, and worked as a private investor in the Boston area. Kristin, of course, is the producer of the documentary about regulator crackdowns on raw milk producers and food clubs, “Farmageddon”, and now operates two restaurants in Concord, MA, that prepare food in the WAPF tradition. Jim is understood to have taken FCLO.

—Katherine Czapp, who had been editor for the WAPF journal Wise Traditions, died in late 2016 at age 60. She died of a type of colorectal cancer, as did her husband about a year before she did. Both were understood to have been users of FCLO

—Carol Esche, a nurse and a former board member of WAPF, died in late 2016 of metastatic breast cancer. It’s not known if she took FCLO. She was 59.

—Lauren Feder Haarpaintner, the author of a book on natural pregnancy, died in late 2015 of bone cancer at age 55. She was understood to have promoted FCLO on her web site.

—Chris Decker was a gifted naturopath, who was diagnosed in 2014 with a strange abdominal cancer that was so fast and vicious that oncologists couldn’t figure out what was going on. In early 2015, she pleaded for donations on her Facebook page: “As far as the MDs are concerned, the prognosis is pretty dismal. There is however, an enormous amount that natural medicine can do, and I’m seeing two wonderful cancer specialists. Already I’m feeling the benefits of their wise ministrations. The bugbear is that this is very expensive. It’s not so much the practitioners’ fees (thanks to their kindness) but the cost of all the medicines, some other treatments, various medical equipment, and, on top of that, all the regular bills that have to be paid. Some close friends have already helped out despite not being exactly flush themselves. But we’ve quickly realized I need a much larger, broader effort–probably involving a lot of kind souls I’ve never even had the pleasure of meeting. I figure I need to raise about $100,000 to cover treatment costs and other bills over the coming months. And time is definitely of the essence. So I guess I’m asking for the kindness of friends and strangers alike. Anything you can spare would be wonderful–literally a lifesaver.” As a WAPF loyalist, she’d been taking FCLO for years and was given extra doses during her final months by a close friend. She died later in 2015 at the age of 61.

 

[Peater]

Is there less chance of them being injected with the mRNA "vaccines" as they are WAPF followers? There must be.

FCLO is scary stuff.

 

[charlie]

Is there less chance of them being injected with the mRNA "vaccines" as they are WAPF followers? There must be.

FCLO is scary stuff.

I tried it for a couple days and got an awful reaction.

 

[Peater]

I tried it for a couple days and got an awful reaction.

It transpires that eating rotten food is best left to vultures and crows. Shocking.

 

[Clyde]

I should have mentioned this was published pre-COVID in 2018 and was actually an update to a 2017 article.

 

[Peater]

I should have mentioned this was published pre-COVID in 2018 and was actually an update to a 2017 article.

Wow, the carcinogenic benefits were around long before the goop and the apparent "spike proteins"!

 

[Clyde]

Wow, the carcinogenic benefits were around long before the goop and the apparent "spike proteins"!

Well to be fair, it completely protected them from COVID since death is known to be 100% effective in preventing future illnesses.

 

[Peater]

Well to be fair, it completely protected them from COVID since death is known to be 100% effective in preventing future illnesses.

Do you write for the Lancet? You should.

 

[Clyde]

Do you write for the Lancet? You should.

The raypeatforum is the people's Lancet so in a way we all do.

 

[Clyde]

This poor guy tried to heal his teeth but ended up with brain cancer. He was a big proponent of fermented cod liver oil for fat soluble vitamins.

Ramiel "Rami" Nagel. Birth. 12 Sep 1978. Death. 28 Jul 2017 (aged 38)


View: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=GfCoyFtYRTg

 

[Peater]

The raypeatforum is the people's Lancet so in a way we all do.

No one here ever told me I need to take my medicine so their medicine works gooder.

 

[DanDare]

I wouldn't be surprised if it did cause turbo cancer. Truly revolting sounding stuff unless cod liver oil gets better when you ferment it, and I doubt it.

 

[BibleBeliever]

Any idea how many tablespoons they would consume a day, or a guess?

FoodData Central

About 3 grams of pufa per tablespoon.

I know in one of Ray Peats articles on his cite he correlates eating excessive salmon with brain cancer, which he attributes to the excess polyunsaturated fatty acids.

His one article on toxic fish oils The Great Fish Oil Experiment

I can't find the citation of a person getting brain cancer, probably in another article.

I remember there was an article statin how toxic and rancid the oil becomes when fermented.
If the causation is correlated to the intake of the oil, it would probably be the excessive polyunsaturated fatty acids and toxins from fermenting it.

 

[Clyde]

Any idea how many tablespoons they would consume a day, or a guess?

Good question.
This is a generic Norwegian CLO label:

 

[DanDare]

I know in one of Ray Peats articles on his cite he correlates eating excessive salmon with brain cancer, which he attributes to the excess polyunsaturated fatty acids.

His one article on toxic fish oils The Great Fish Oil Experiment

I can't find the citation of a person getting brain cancer, probably in another article.

I remember there was an article statin how toxic and rancid the oil becomes when fermented.
If the causation is correlated to the intake of the oil, it would probably be the excessive polyunsaturated fatty acids and toxins from fermenting it.

I can't think of anything in it that ISN'T toxic

 

[mosaic01]

Cod liver has other things in it but it's especially high in vitamin a. It has some pufa in it too. Maybe fermenting it made it even worse but idk.

Those Ticking Time Bombs Going Off Are WAPF People Dying Too Young - David Gumpert

An unexpectedly large number of individuals connected to fermented cod liver oil and associated with the Weston A. Price Foundation are dying prematurely.

www.davidgumpert.com

It had been suggested by Franko in the comments that the toxicity in this case comes from retinol turning into retinoic acid. It's a deadly combination of retinoic acid and rancid PUFA.

FCLO is not "fermented", it is produced in such a way that the liver oil stands outside in containers for weeks, in the sun, turning into a toxic brew.

Kaayla Daniel exposed the manufacturer "Green Pasture", and for this was ousted from the WAPF board.

Copying that comment from @franko:

These people are probably dying from retinoid toxicity. Retinoids are way more toxic than most people realize.

Cod Liver Oil has up to 100,000 IU’s of VA per 100 grams — which is basically the highest amount of VA in any normally consumed food. Compare it to ~17,000 IUs in the same amount of beef liver, which is already super high compared to something like 520 in eggs and 160 in milk and 80 in lean beef.

Furthermore, Cod Liver Oil has potential to be even more toxic because under same conditions in which all oils will oxidize, the retinol in the oils will likely also oxidize, and the oxidation byproduct of retinol is retinoic acid.

Retinoic acid is extremely toxic. Isomers of this substance are known as Accutane (Isotretinoin), which is toxic enough to cause birth defects if taken by pregnant women, and tretinoin — which is toxic enough to be used as a chemotherapy drug for leukemia. You can look up the side effects of either drugs to see the kind of damage that retinoic acid can do to the body.

So FCLO is probably a toxic brew of not just super high Vitamin A but also small amounts of retinoic acid — making it so that daily ingestion of FCLO is essentially like micro-dosing a chemotherapy drug every day.

And to make it worse, the VA is accumulating in your body and what happens when your liver (the primary storage organ for VA) is overloaded? Well, if you keep on consuming way more VA than your body can use, it will eventually “spill over” and your body will be forced to store this fat soluble vitamin in other tissues, and some of this retinol will be converted to the highly toxic retinoic acid inside the body, and doing even more damage.

So yes, Vitamin A — primarily via its metabolite retinoic acid — can be and is extremely toxic and, yes, it can kill you.

I have learned this from Grant Genereux, who is the guy who figured all this out and has explained his theory of Vitamin A toxicity all in great detail on his blog: Vitamin A…. oh no it’s not!

I hope that others can help spread the word about this to all the WAPF people and anyone taking any kind of CLO — or even just eating too much liver or taking too much supplemental VA. Even the mainstream recognizes VA toxicity (aka hypervitaminosis A) but they underestimate it and misunderstand this substance completely. Read Genereux’s research and you’ll see why.

There's a reason that the lab analysis found almost no actual retinol in the "fermented" cod liver oil. It all turned into retinoic acid.

 

[Clyde]

People are pointing out that CLO has a good amount of pufa but maybe it takes a toxic cocktail of different chemicals to give a health focused person terminal cancer in their 30s.

Ramiel was active in the WAP community and his favorite carb sources were sweet potatoes and yams according to Resurgo74's very nice summary from Nagel's book.

Hey,


I am peating since about 3 months, coming from a more Weston Price oriented diet.
I felt good and healthy before but now I feel like I`m in my early 20`s again,
beeing 44 years old. No kidding.
So thanks a lot to Ray Peat and the contributors of this forum.


Besides feeling healthy I want to keep my teath healthy.
So I read Ramiel Nagel`s book "Cure Tooth Decay".


According to Ramiel tooth decay is based on:
1. Lack of Vitamins A, D, E, K
2. Blood sugar fluctuations which draw calcium from bones and teeths

1. Lack of fat-soluable Vitamins

Daily nutritional requirements according to Ramiel Nagel:
- Calcium from animal sources 1.5g;
only calcium from unpasteurized dairy can be metabolized in bones and teeth
- Phosphor from animal sources 2g
- Vitamin A 4.000 - 20.000 IU
- Vitamin D 1.000 - 4.000 IU
- Calories from fat 30% -70%
- 6-18 ounces high-quality protein: BW / 15 = protein requirement in oz.
- With every meal: 1 teaspoon of healtyh fat: Butter, ghee, coconut oil
- Foods to increase mineral intake like broth, dairy products, vegetables
- Plenty cooked vegetables: beet greens, kale, chard, zucchini, broccoli, celery
- some fermented with every meal

2. blood sugar fluctuations
Ramiel argues that caviatis is caused by blood sugar fluctuations
which leads to a prolonged blood calcium-phosphor miss-relation
which draws calcium from bones and teeth.

White sugar is supposed to lead to 5 hours of blood sugar fluctuations,
fruit sugar, even though low-glycemic, is supposed to lead to 5 hours of blood sugar fluctuations, honey is supposed to lead to 3 hours of blood sugar fluctuations.
In addition to that white sugar is said to deplete the body of chromium, zinc, magnesium and manganese.

( White sugar is supposed to bring posterior pituitary gland out of balance, so that it can`t regulate blood sugar -> phosphor pulled from bones -> tooth decay
Natural sweeteners lead to an overactive anterior pituitary gland -> lack of growth hormone -> gum disease; Thyroid is regulated by anterior pituitary gland -> to repair thyroid, repair anterior pituitary gland …. )


So he suggests the following carb sources:

• Swet potatoes
• Yams
• If one wants to go with grains:
  • properly prepared sourdough bread
  • high-quality Jasmin or Basmati Rice
  • properly prepared brown Rice:
    • 50% of the bran removed
    • soaked with a phytase-rich starter
    • partially milled, soured

My take on this:

• one is better off without vegetables through their anit-nutritions
  ( I know that vegetables can be prepared properly,
  but I think they are just not necessary )
• Calcium from pasteurized high-quality grass-fed dairy is quite fine
• have more dietary phosphor than dietary calcium
• don`t eat fermented foods
• have your carbs from sucrose, fructose
  ( especially orange juice / oranges, honey, carrots )
  • balances carbs with protein and a little healthy fat
• besides that, I like his recommandations but
  • I suppose it is sufficient to have about 5 oz. of mussels per week
    and about 5 oz. of liverwurst per week to fullfill Vitamin A requirements
    and to get enough micronutrients like zinc.
    To get enough Vitamin K,D I supplement with Carlsons Liquid D / K
    Vitamin E is barely needed if one lacks of dietary PUFA`

where Ramiel suggests to daily have foods from 2 or 3 of the following
sources:

• grass-fed dairy; especially summer butter
• organs from land animals: liver, kidney, brain, glands
• organs and head meat from fish and shellfish

What do you think?


Frank

 

[DanDare]

It had been suggested by Franko in the comments that the toxicity in this case comes from retinol turning into retinoic acid. It's a deadly combination of retinoic acid and rancid PUFA.

FCLO is not "fermented", it is produced in such a way that the liver oil stands outside in containers for weeks, in the sun, turning into a toxic brew.

Kaayla Daniel exposed the manufacturer "Green Pasture", and for this was ousted from the WAPF board.

Copying that comment from @franko:



There's a reason that the lab analysis found almost no actual retinol in the "fermented" cod liver oil. It all turned into retinoic acid.

that would be bad given Retinoic acid is claimed to be between 10 - 20x more potent than retinol.

 

[lilrawhoney]

I took FCLO one time years ago. I immediately projectile vomited, and I’m someone with a very strong stomach. My body knew it was toxic and I just had a feeling I shouldn’t take it. It went straight to the trash. When all the info kept coming out about the FCLO and the link to cancer with long term WAPF members, I wasn’t surprised one bit.