Man Spent 35 Years Studying The Brains Of Serial Killers. Found Increased Serotonin

Discussion in 'Scientific Studies' started by Beefcake, Jul 3, 2019.

  1. Beefcake

    Beefcake Member

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    https://www.indy100.com/article/this-man-spent-35-years-studying-the-brains-of-serial-killers-this-is-what-he-found-out-7355061%3famp

    @haidut
    Wanted to tag you since you might find it interesting this man spent most of his life trying to figur out the culprit of psychopathy.

    Interesting article. Seen this guy before on TV several times. According to his studies psychopaths seems to have a genetic problem with MAO A resulting in increased serotonin. This goes perfectly inline with both yours and rays believes that serotonin is the culprit of mental illness.

    As he also explains the combination of MAO A faulty gene and exposure to stress in childhood causing more cortisol and serotonin release is a recipe for mental illness.
     
  2. Kartoffel

    Kartoffel Member

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    #serotoninpersonality
     
  3. OP
    Beefcake

    Beefcake Member

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    Studies of CSF 5-HIAA in depression and suicidal behaviour. - PubMed - NCBI

    Even more frightning is the fact that MAO is needed to degrade serotonin to its metabolites. The main metabolite of serotonin is 5-HIAA. Low levels of 5-HIAA has been linked to depression and suicide. There’s two ways to tackle that. Either you say that serotonin is low in depression thus you have reduced levels of its metabolite. This is the main stream theory. Or more likely you have reduced MAO A resulting in excess serotonin and less of its breakdown thus resulting in low 5-HIAA but still causing all the symptoms of high serotonin.
     
  4. James b

    James b Member

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    How to increase MAOI A? Methylene blue? Anything else?
     
  5. André Luiz

    André Luiz Member

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    Methylene blue decreases It.
    Vit b2 and low estrogen increase it
     
  6. Opioidus

    Opioidus Member

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    Serotonin is positively correlated with social status in humans, serial killers are often cold, calculating, manipulative psychopath who end up on top of whichever hierarchy they enter, that's probably the reason why they have high serotonin levels. If serotonin itself was responsible for serial killing then we'd had millions of serial killers on our hands.
     
  7. jyb

    jyb Member

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    Any references? I would have expected the opposite, with health correlating to social status.
     
  8. High_Prob

    High_Prob Member

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    The article is clearly saying that it’s a combination of different factors that contribute to psychopathology: High serotonin, MAOA genetics but also and most likely just as important brain damage and experiencing/witnessing violence at a young age...
     
  9. Opioidus

    Opioidus Member

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    Social and environmental influences on blood serotonin concentrations in monkeys. - PubMed - NCBI
    Serotonergic mechanisms promote dominance acquisition in adult male vervet monkeys - ScienceDirect

    The link is well understood and depends on the species, if you are a competitive animal that needs to fight to get to the top/stay at the top then serotonin increases your social status, if you are in a cooperative species then lower serotonin means higher social status.
     
  10. jyb

    jyb Member

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    Thanks, makes sense. I would have expected lower serotonin in humans of higher social status considering associated jobs tend to require cooperation and social skills, with some competition but not necessarily unfair and unhealthy. Of course this may not apply to the extreme end of that status, with the stereotype of the few humans at the top being that of greed and fierce competition (which is often not accurate according to my experience).
     
  11. Opioidus

    Opioidus Member

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    We were a violently competitive species in our natural state, civilization is very young, much younger than our central nervous systems, and even now we are still incredibly cruel and violent. Some of the most common side effects of SSRIs are also among the classic "high status" behavior traits :

    Antidepressants increase the risk of suicide, violence and homicide at all ages

    [QOUTE]Over half of people aged 18 to 25 in the study reported suicidal feelings and in the total sample there were large percentages of people suffering from 'sexual difficulties' (62%) and 'feeling emotionally numb' (60%). Percentages for other effects included: 'feeling not like myself' (52%), 'reduction in positive feelings' (42%), 'caring less about others' (39%) and 'withdrawal effects' (55%). However, 82% reported that the drugs had helped alleviate their depression.[/QUOTE]

    I think one of the major issues with SSRIs is the dosage, which is set several times higher than the amount actually needed to make a difference. I have microdosed Cymbalta for social anxiety with great success, it truly is a courage pill at 100th of the usual dose prescribed for depression. But even at such a low dose it still had significant sexual side effects like dry orgasms and retrograde ejaculation.
     
  12. Hugh Johnson

    Hugh Johnson Member

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    Not humans, and also blood serotonin is not brain serotonin. Try increasing your social status via violence like the monkeys and see if it works. Protip: being prison means you are at the bottom of the hierarchy.
     
  13. OP
    Beefcake

    Beefcake Member

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    Agree with this. But some sort of hostility and detachement from reality is likely needed. Also long term differences in MAO A would likely result in different brain wiring at thus psychopathy is just not randomly caused by serotonin. Even though basically all mass shooting killers have been on SSRI. If you have the MAO A deficiency gene then you would be more suseptable to serotonin syndrome. So these shooters orginally could had an already genetic MAO A deficiency and the SSRI just caused enough serotonin stimulation to cause the agitation, crazy thought, restlessness and anger that some people have reported.


    Interesting about riboflavin increasing MAO A have to try that. Iron deficiency lowered MAO A. Dunno about the estrogen because AI seems to cause migraines which seem to be correlated to serotonin and calcitonin related gene expression.

    Im interested in other things that could both lower and increase MAO A so you can both take advantage and avoid them.

    The scientist in the article has been on morgan freemans through the wormhole. Ah very interesting story the man told morgan was that there was this other mass shoter who basically went on a roof and shot loads of people dead then shot himself in the head. He left a handwritten note on him begging for them to make an autopsy of his brain because something is there making him this way he believed. He was a complete normal man with wife and kids. I can bet money he was depressed and went on SSRI and likely had the MAO A deficiency gene.
     
  14. OP
    Beefcake

    Beefcake Member

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    I think one of the major issues with SSRIs is the dosage, which is set several times higher than the amount actually needed to make a difference. I have microdosed Cymbalta for social anxiety with great success, it truly is a courage pill at 100th of the usual dose prescribed for depression. But even at such a low dose it still had significant sexual side effects like dry orgasms and retrograde ejaculation.[/QUOTE]

    I can relate to this when my doctor gave me ssri he put me on the ”lowest dose” and according to him anything under that would not have any effect. Well I took half of it still had 1 month of feeling good half day then anxious the other half and sleeping like ***t. Once I actually had passed 1-2 months of it I felt amazing and I the sexual dysfunction dissappeared and my sex drive was actually higher then before. They waaay overdose those drugs. Swear you could 1/2 or even 1/3 of all the SSRIs and they would still have the 82% less depression effect while much much lower side effects.
     
  15. Opioidus

    Opioidus Member

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    For obvious ideological reasons it's very difficult to define and quantify human social status and I haven't found any studies done on the brain chemistry of social status in humans, there are a bunch of articles and news posts and blog posts but most of them refer to studies that I haven't been able to find online.

    Criminality isn't the same thing as aggression or anger, if your upstairs neighbor is keeping you up at night it's a good thing to be aggressive enough to go to his door and confront him, it's not a good idea to go upstairs and stab him and then rape his wife. Reducing human behavior to the interactions between a bunch of neurotransmitters will remove agency and isn't really supported by any data, we can claim that ssris may increase the likelihood of criminal behavior in the case of otherwise violent individuals, it sort of pushes them over the edge, it doesn't make meek people killers.
     
  16. Opioidus

    Opioidus Member

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    Most people have naive, ideologically charged ideas about status, usually because people who have too many ideas about such matters are chronically low status themselves and are speaking from a position of weakness and jealousy. "Jerk" and "***hole" and "psychopath" and "douche bag" are among the many derogatory terms given to the typical alpha male in the human species by his lesser counterparts. Aggression is as useful in the office as it is in the octagon, being emotionally blunted instead of an emotional little b**** is still preferable when you're facing distressful situations, getting angry when you are trespassed against is better for your status and psychological health than sucking it up.
     
  17. Opioidus

    Opioidus Member

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    Give microdoses of cymbalta a try, it's particularly appropriate for this form of usage because it is in the form of small balls inside the capsule. I took only one of these balls every morning:
    [​IMG]

    I was good for the rest of the day, calm, collected, cool under pressure, plenty of energy and motivation... But as I mentioned it negatively affected my health and the side effects still persisted at this extremely low dose, hence the reason I joined this site.
     
  18. Hugh Johnson

    Hugh Johnson Member

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    No, aggression causes trouble. Even if you manage a temporary victory, it will often cost you in the long run. No aggression is required to confront other people, and anger is only good for those feeling helpless, afraid or for the unskilled engaged in violence.
     
  19. Opioidus

    Opioidus Member

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    Nice platitudes, causing trouble is the point. Healthy aggression is always good and a necessary component for success in life, love and career. Passive behavior is almost always detrimental to the psychological and social well being of the individual and it can be as morally reprehensible as aggression since it allows for injustice to flourish.

    Anger is useful for overcoming fear and shame.

    Confronting people requires a significant amount of aggression.
     
  20. Hugh Johnson

    Hugh Johnson Member

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    Only if you are afraid. Well adjusted people do not need to be aggressive, not even when using violence.
     
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