Idea Labs Supplements To Lower Trait Agreeableness?

[Hugh Johnson]

Well, I'm just saying what's out there. Eric Braverman at one point lost his medical license, and Daniel Amen has been featured on Quackwatch.

You might be offering good advice, and the things the dude sells might even work. State control is crucial for engaging in proper conflict, so what you say could be very valuable. MB is still bs though.

 

[Regina]

Anything that makes you healthier makes you better at things, including conflict. Less stress means you are going to clearer perception of the other party and you will be less scared because you can afford the conflict better.

Yes. This is true.

 

[ecstatichamster]

agreeableness is from the need to avoid rejection.

I think rejection therapy can help. There are meetups in major cities where guys (almost all men) go out and do things in public to desensitize them to rejection and I think this works.

 

[Frankdee20]

agreeableness is from the need to avoid rejection.

I think rejection therapy can help. There are meetups in major cities where guys (almost all men) go out and do things in public to desensitize them to rejection and I think this works.

Yes, great tool

 

[Frankdee20]

How much can behavioral interventions like that really offset what's ingrained ? I am inclined to think one either has gumption, or they don't.

 

[kyle]

Do boxing or MMA. You want to be tough you gotta be beaten down first. not so much having fighting ability but to actually have your **** kicked.

 

[Frankdee20]

Do boxing or MMA. You want to be tough you gotta be beaten down first. not so much having fighting ability but to actually have your **** kicked.

Having ones **** kicked proves what now ? Resilience? Humility? Desensitized to conflict ? Or reinforces why conflict sucks ?

 

[kyle]

Double post

 

[kyle]

Pathological agreeableness stems from seeing disagreement as an existential threeat even when it isn't. In other words stemming from not knowing the difference between actual threats and the perception of threats due to inexperience. Therefore i don't think you can just trick your brain with hormones or something.

I'd be curious to know if op is only child or theater kid that didn't do sports. That would support this theory.

 

[Frankdee20]

Double post

I'm going to have to agree with you on trickery with hormones, etc. It stems from early years of development. You either have the gumption to not avoid conflict, or you don't. It's ingrained.

 

[CoconutEffect]

I agree with everyone so far.

 

[dbh25]

For all you JPB fans on here; or folks familiar with the Big 5 personality model; does anyone have helpful information to share?

JP talks about setting a series of smaller goals, like if you're uncomfortable in social situations, deciding to talk to 2 people at a party. Accomplishing that goal, and setting another to build on it.
Maybe you could try the same, in a low risk environment to practice, outside of work.

 

[dbh25]

I agree with everyone so far.

Lol

 

[Regina]

I agree with everyone so far.

I would disagree with attempting to strengthen your armor with external enemy martial arts. (My aikido/zen teacher called it "karate-mind"). That might be a temporary fix and repellent. But it is still working on your puppet persona. I think the more you can live authentically in your own shoes, the more things will, at least, makes sense.
I am not afraid of conflict with aikido or its 1000 ego blows. But I still just fold and avoid negotiation and/or annoying people.

 

[Regina]

JP talks about setting a series of smaller goals, like if you're uncomfortable in social situations, deciding to talk to 2 people at a party. Accomplishing that goal, and setting another to build on it.
Maybe you could try the same, in a low risk environment to practice, outside of work.

I just don't like the planning or scheming mind-set. How about just be fully your self? (which does not mean sending your "good puppet" persona to the social setting).

 

[dbh25]

I just don't like the planning or scheming mind-set. How about just be fully your self? (which does not mean sending your "good puppet" persona to the social setting).

I think you misunderstood. If you take meth because that's "yourself", that's probably not helping you.
If you feel your life is lacking if you avoid social situations or feel like you are taken advantage of, why not take small, quantifiable steps towards a goal?

 

[tfcjesse]

I agree with everyone so far.

2.5 years of work with JBP? Awesome..would you mind elaborating a bit on how that was? I’m still in the midst of finishing his YouTube lectures. They’re lengthy and dense but full of gems. I’m assuming you’ve watched these too?

As for your question, a solution will have to be a tailored fit. While many substances produce generalized effects on people, I find the changes in personality to be highly dependent on the individual’s mineral balance/chemistry and how it interacts with the drug.

 

[Frankdee20]

I think you misunderstood. If you take meth because that's "yourself", that's probably not helping you.
If you feel your life is lacking if you avoid social situations or feel like you are taken advantage of, why not take small, quantifiable steps towards a goal?

Yeah but to me, Social anxiety and introversion, avoidance of people stemmed from low brain energy, depression, etc. I think when you have more brain energy (Dopamine as Braverman suggests) it’s easier to be social. Vitamin D has turned me into a social butterfly lately, and I’m someone who never talked. Even when I would, just to do it, it felt fake and done for the sake of doing it. So that still made me feel like a loser anyway. There’s a huge difference now in my affect, and brain speed, and synchrony. I don’t know if that is D3 Boosting Tyrosine Hydroxylase, but I feel differently. Like I actually care now to make connections with the world.

 

[Opioidus]

For me at least, it is neither dopamine nor testosterone, and it certainly isn't thyroid. I've tried everything on the face of this earth at one point or another and the only thing that made me more assertive was low dose venlafaxine.

I've tried extreme dopaminergic like cocaine, whilst it made me more outgoing and confident, it didn't make me go out of my comfort zone and do what needs to be done(how I would describe assertiveness). I've been on t2, t3, and t4 at various doses and combinations, the only thing it does for mood and personality is slightly improved motivation.

I've done two cycles of testosterone as well, one t alone and another a combination of testosterone and trenbolone. If pregnenolone and DHEA were hand grenades, these are nuclear bombs. And I tell you it made me more confident and outgoing, but I was still as conflict-averse as I always am. Even tho I was ready to fight someone if needed and got very angry at times, I still couldn't muster the will to confront people about their bull**** in my normal mood.

At the suggestion of a psychiatrist friend I tried extremely low doses of venlafaxine since I didn't have proper dosing kits I can only say the bull park, it was 1 or 2 milligrams per day. I was on it for a week and since day two I started doing things I would never do: send back a meal at a restaurant, protest to my ***hole upstairs neighbor, confronting people treating me like jerks, asking girls I like out with zero hesitation. I still had physical anxiety, in fact, I would say it was slightly increased. But I didn't give a ***t. Which led me to believe that it's a lack of mental energy that causes my avoidant personality not fear of fear. On venlafaxine, I wasn't a psychopath but I was able to push through anything, public humiliation, fear of rejection, the possibility of a fight...

Unfortunately, I started developing very crappy side effects even at that low dose, like retrograde ejaculation and rushing thoughts and extremely poor quality of sleep. But I got to sew what the good life is like for one week. For one week I didn't care what people thought about me at all. I was truly free. So I think my particular brain chemistry is in fact related to low serotonin or neuroadranaline in some regions of the brain, which venlafaxine fixes. I also gave other SNRIs or NRIs like atomoxetine and Cymbalta a try but none of them worked the same way, apparently, they all work on different regions of the brain, as to how I'm not exactly sure.

But I can say with 100% certainty that dopamine, testosterone, and thyroid did absolutely nothing for me in this area.

 

[redsun]

For me at least, it is neither dopamine nor testosterone, and it certainly isn't thyroid. I've tried everything on the face of this earth at one point or another and the only thing that made me more assertive was low dose venlafaxine.

I've tried extreme dopaminergic like cocaine, whilst it made me more outgoing and confident, it didn't make me go out of my comfort zone and do what needs to be done(how I would describe assertiveness). I've been on t2, t3, and t4 at various doses and combinations, the only thing it does for mood and personality is slightly improved motivation.

I've done two cycles of testosterone as well, one t alone and another a combination of testosterone and trenbolone. If pregnenolone and DHEA were hand grenades, these are nuclear bombs. And I tell you it made me more confident and outgoing, but I was still as conflict-averse as I always am. Even tho I was ready to fight someone if needed and got very angry at times, I still couldn't muster the will to confront people about their bull**** in my normal mood.

At the suggestion of a psychiatrist friend I tried extremely low doses of venlafaxine since I didn't have proper dosing kits I can only say the bull park, it was 1 or 2 milligrams per day. I was on it for a week and since day two I started doing things I would never do: send back a meal at a restaurant, protest to my ***hole upstairs neighbor, confronting people treating me like jerks, asking girls I like out with zero hesitation. I still had physical anxiety, in fact, I would say it was slightly increased. But I didn't give a ***t. Which led me to believe that it's a lack of mental energy that causes my avoidant personality not fear of fear. On venlafaxine, I wasn't a psychopath but I was able to push through anything, public humiliation, fear of rejection, the possibility of a fight...

Unfortunately, I started developing very crappy side effects even at that low dose, like retrograde ejaculation and rushing thoughts and extremely poor quality of sleep. But I got to sew what the good life is like for one week. For one week I didn't care what people thought about me at all. I was truly free. So I think my particular brain chemistry is in fact related to low serotonin or neuroadranaline in some regions of the brain, which venlafaxine fixes. I also gave other SNRIs or NRIs like atomoxetine and Cymbalta a try but none of them worked the same way, apparently, they all work on different regions of the brain, as to how I'm not exactly sure.

But I can say with 100% certainty that dopamine, testosterone, and thyroid did absolutely nothing for me in this area.

Interesting post thanks. Though I found it strange that cocaine did not give you what you were after. Had a friend on ritalin and it made him exactly how you say you want to be. Didnt take ***t from no one. Its possible his serotonin levels were in the right spot and he just needed the dopamine and noradrenaline reuptake inhibition to actualize.

I think a good part could be the fact that excess serotonin reduces empathy. I think a good word to describe what you seek is disinhibition.

American College of Emergency Physicians

"Serotonin imbalance has been described as the impetus for disinhibition and the inability to control socially unacceptable behavior."

Article talks about paradoxical disinhibition from benzodiazepines and its suspected to be related to serotonin "imbalance" (probably excess).

Paradoxical disinhibition - Wikipedia

"It is thought that blockage of presynasptic GABA receptors of GABAergic neurons induce stimulation as a net effect, because the action of the most powerful inhibitory neurotransmitter, GABA, is blocked.[3]"

NMDA antagonists seem to reverse it. So clearly NMDA is doing something here as well. Something for you to look into. Perhaps NMDA hypofunction?

Consolidation of fear extinction requires NMDA receptor-dependent bursting in the ventromedial prefrontal cortex. - PubMed - NCBI

NMDA receptors and fear extinction: implications for cognitive behavioral therapy. - PubMed - NCBI