Idea Labs Supplements To Lower Trait Agreeableness?

[CoconutEffect]

I run a film locations business in NYC and while it's been successful, I'm far too agreeable for my own good, and for the good of my bottom line.

Jordan Peterson was my (Google hangout) psychologist weekly for approximately 2.5 years and I've made significant progress with the psychotherapeutic interventions, but not enough to my satisfaction. I'm very good at bringing value to my clients, but not so good at bringing value to myself.

For all you JPB fans on here; or folks familiar with the Big 5 personality model; does anyone have helpful information to share?

Lowering trait agreeableness, or dampening maternal circuitry, I'm a 29 yr. old male. @haidut ?

 

[DrJ]

Well, speaking pragmatically, a "good" way would be to up your testosterone. That's a whole subject into itself. Defibron might help. Proper use (and careful monitoring of) the DHEA and progesterone supplements might help. Also, Estroban would help by lowering estrogen. I don't think testosterone makes you necessarily disagreeable, but it definitely makes you feel dominant, initiative-taking, and quite willing to stand up for yourself. But it needs to be measured with calmness and applied "wisdom" to the best you can manage it. When I'm at my best, I'm dominant and advocate my interests, but in a creative manner in which I am not straight out situationally crushing people, but rather finessing the situation and getting them to see things my way, but allowing them to be active and decision-making participants. This can play out in interesting and very beneficial ways in which you are basically challenging them from your frame, and bouncing back and forth off each other, and it can create actually much better outcome because you have two or more minds involved. I think the important thing is that, when you get your testosterone up, you don't let the often single-minded dominance attitude run away, but rather be aware of yourself as being in a web of people in which you are connected, and in the best case can be positively connected, and that engaging that web can produce much more beneficial outcomes rather than dominating it. I have been recently finding that progesterone can help in this pursuit.

From a different perspective, getting your serotonin up will make you grumpy and disagreeable, and you will advocate your interests, but more from a desperation mindset than a constructive one. To do this, eat a bunch of fiber and beans, lol. I'm sure everyone is different in how that comes about. I haven't seen a SeroPlus supp from Idealabs, but maybe there will be a Darkside line coming out soon, haha. I experienced this perspective a lot when I was still getting my digestion figured out and hadn't discovered the utility of magnesium. I could get quite grumpy and am embarrassed to say I lost my temper with some folks. Though I definitely defended my interests, haha. But that's not a good way.

I would say you want to set up "your world" or "your frame" but allow others to participate in it in fair terms; you want them to play or there's nothing. You might find it useful to think of it as a game to discover "win-win" situations. I've always found it a useful strategy to take a "step back" from things by pretending it's a game. It helps you gain perspective when the mind is tired and wants to be narrow. I'm sure you can find ways to pitch your clients on value if you spend some time thinking in this manner.

 

[Thoushant]

Maybe part of the success of your business relies on you agreeableness and being more liked.
For supplements, Androsterone lowers my agreeableness, but I see the dislike rise in people, and part of my personality is always aware of that, so I don't know how long you can keep that up. Bromocripitine and methylene blue makes me quick on my feet, articulate and focused on the situation.

The big 5 traits are wide brush strokes of what makes you you. I bet you're not always agreeable.
You should find values you hold fond, that can achieve the results you want, without negatively affecting the ideals you hold yourself up to(social harmony). Like being assertive in certain situations. The values you hold dear will make you guilty if you don't live up to them, but it's something you can manage, context dependent you don't always need the value of social harmony, you might realize that it could hurt the situation at the end, and the realization alone will lessen the guilt.
that you lived up to another value is good in itself.

You could benefit from fully picturing where you want things to go, and why you dislike that your agreeableness doesn't help you reach that place, when this situation happens and what you can do about it.
Emotional Competency - Values
Emotional Competency - Beliefs and Values
somewhat related , but good read Emotional Competency - Life's guidance system
People might respond differently to this side of you, and maybe it's not something you've explored before. related in the website: Engaging in dialogue, Power dynamics and flowcharts of various emotions, guilt, anger progression.

 

[Waynish]

Monitor your behavior for agreeableness! I don't think it would be healthy to consciously or subconsciously depend on substances for this. "Oh, I said yes to something I didn't want again, damn supplement stopped working..."

 

[Tarmander]

does high neuroticism factor into that?

 

[Frankdee20]

Yeah I'm inclined to agree with these suggestions regarding boosting androgens. I've never used androsterone or testosterone, but as a very flaky 37 yo guy, with the same trait your seeking to diminish, with a 460 T level this year, anytime I bring my D3 (raises T a bit) level up, or get DHEA like effects from Pregnenalone, I feel better about myself as a man.

 

[Pointless]

Email haidut about 11-keto dht.

 

[lollipop]

You might find it useful to think of it as a game to discover "win-win" situations. I've always found it a useful strategy to take a "step back" from things by pretending it's a game. It helps you gain perspective when the mind is tired and wants to be narrow. I'm sure you can find ways to pitch your clients on value if you spend some time thinking in this manner.

Firstly, fantastic reply @DrJ.

More specifically to this part: YES. Switching the mental frame to where everyone involved thrives including self, is a rocket boost method.

 

[sladerunner69]

Intriguing vein of ambition located upon this thread. To lower agreeableness is to raise a man's competitive edge, or what not?

If you want to be less agreeable in NYC, simply become politically conservative. Start wearing a "Make America Great Again!" hat and pickett the NY fed mint in a denim jacket/denim pants/redwing boots. Always carry the new testament with you and walk around to the front of night clubs and detest the crowds lines up outside with ominous quotes of the lord's impending wrath and the folly of sin.

OH you're trying to become disagreeable, but not dead? Well then DHEA will probably do the trick. 5mg topically 2-3 times per day

 

[pimpnamedraypeat]

Increase dopamine might work. I think what you're suffering form is a low sense of power which makes you overly agreeable in an attempt to get people to like you. A high sense of power would do the opposite...

 

[Frankdee20]

Increase dopamine might work. I think what you're suffering form is a low sense of power which makes you overly agreeable in an attempt to get people to like you. A high sense of power would do the opposite...

Didn't Dr Eric Braverman from Path Medical NYC have a book entitled The Edge Effect ? It basically asserts that the 4 key neurotransmitters can be tweaked accordingly to augment personality traits. Dopamine natures are characterized by facts and figures and logic, with competitive natures, who love power and dominance. So you're likely correct, but simply increasing one system without balancing others won't allow optimal expression of that type. For example,raising Dopamine would lower Serotonin, due to binary opposing natures. But if your low in GABA, then you'd be disorganized, and less of a team player. There has to be a finesse and congruency to everything.

 

[pimpnamedraypeat]

Didn't Dr Eric Braverman from Path Medical NYC have a book entitled The Edge Effect ? It basically asserts that the 4 key neurotransmitters can be tweaked accordingly to augment personality traits. Dopamine natures are characterized by facts and figures and logic, with competitive natures, who love power and dominance. So you're likely correct, but simply increasing one system without balancing others won't allow optimal expression of that type. For example,raising Dopamine would lower Serotonin, due to binary opposing natures. But if your low in GABA, then you'd be disorganized, and less of a team player. There has to be a finesse and congruency to everything.

I agree completely. It's a bad idea to directly target the neurotransmitters unless you have a very good idea of what you're doing. I think the best way to modulate neurotransmitters is hormonally. An increase in dopamine could be achieved by raising testosterone like the first responder said.

 

[lepetitcheval]

Cocavit.

 

[Frankdee20]

I agree completely. It's a bad idea to directly target the neurotransmitters unless you have a very good idea of what you're doing. I think the best way to modulate neurotransmitters is hormonally. An increase in dopamine could be achieved by raising testosterone like the first responder said.

Yeah absolutely, DHEA to a less extent, and Testosterone, Dopaminergic, primarily. See but Braverman's whole shtick was eluding to your point about having some idea of what to augment. So he ends up running Quantitative EEG as a baseline, called Brainmap, to identify neurotransmitter imbalances via Alpha, Beta, Theta, Delta wave activity. Each correlate with the 4 brain chemicals. Then he goes from there based on coinciding Myers Brigs and Minnesota Multiphasal Inventory personality tests. I honestly don't know how empirical QEEG is vs. SPECT scans that Daniel Amen is doing. As far as using them to know what imbalances exist, and using integrated psychiatric drug treatment accordingly. However, it isn't being used in contemporary psychiatry, and insurance rarely pays for it as a diagnostic tool. Idk, just saying.

 

[pimpnamedraypeat]

Yeah absolutely, DHEA to a less extent, and Testosterone, Dopaminergic, primarily. See but Braverman's whole shtick was eluding to your point about having some idea of what to augment. So he ends up running Quantitative EEG as a baseline, called Brainmap, to identify neurotransmitter imbalances via Alpha, Beta, Theta, Delta wave activity. Each correlate with the 4 brain chemicals. Then he goes from there based on coinciding Myers Brigs and Minnesota Multiphasal Inventory personality tests. I honestly don't know how empirical QEEG is vs. SPECT scans that Daniel Amen is doing. As far as using them to know what imbalances exist, and using integrated psychiatric drug treatment accordingly. However, it isn't being used in contemporary psychiatry, and insurance rarely pays for it as a diagnostic tool. Idk, just saying.

Very interesting. Why isn't it used? Seems like empirical science that would bring psychiatry out of 'woo woo' land

 

[Frankdee20]

Very interesting. Why isn't it used? Seems like empirical science that would bring psychiatry out of 'woo woo' land

The reason conventional psychiatrists argue as to why they aren't used seems to be lack of controls verifying validity. Now that's not to say SPECT and QEEG are absolutely conclusive. Let's assume they add value, and are empirically valid. Then I think psychiatry admits it's been hit or miss for decades with questions, followed by powerful mind altering drugs, followed by changing drugs, fluff, etc.

 

[Hugh Johnson]

Very interesting. Why isn't it used? Seems like empirical science that would bring psychiatry out of 'woo woo' land

That's an insult to woo-woo land,and I won't have it. People who have gone full woo often do get the result they are after.

Myers Brigs is a scam which has no test-retest consistency, and only a conman would use it in his studios.

OP, aggreableness is not a fault, it is a trait. It is unlikely supplements will make a huge difference and you need behavioural intervertion. Learn how to engage in social conflict and how to remain calm and take pleasure in getting what you want and in hurting ****ers.

 

[Frankdee20]

That's an insult to woo-woo land,and I won't have it. People who have gone full woo often do get the result they are after.

Myers Brigs is a scam which has no test-retest consistency, and only a conman would use it in his studios.

OP, aggreableness is not a fault, it is a trait. It is unlikely supplements will make a huge difference and you need behavioural intervertion. Learn how to engage in social conflict and how to remain calm and take pleasure in getting what you want and in hurting ****ers.

Well, I'm just saying what's out there. Eric Braverman at one point lost his medical license, and Daniel Amen has been featured on Quackwatch.

 

[Regina]

That's an insult to woo-woo land,and I won't have it. People who have gone full woo often do get the result they are after.

Myers Brigs is a scam which has no test-retest consistency, and only a conman would use it in his studios.

OP, aggreableness is not a fault, it is a trait. It is unlikely supplements will make a huge difference and you need behavioural intervertion. Learn how to engage in social conflict and how to remain calm and take pleasure in getting what you want and in hurting ****ers.

I think so too. No amount of supps or aikido will make me a better negotiator, less gullible or less trusting.

 

[Hugh Johnson]

I think so too. No amount of supps or aikido will make me a better negotiator, less gullible or less trusting.

Anything that makes you healthier makes you better at things, including conflict. Less stress means you are going to clearer perception of the other party and you will be less scared because you can afford the conflict better.