Amphetamine, But Not Methylphenidate (Ritalin) Increases Serotonin

[DaveFoster]

Effects of methylphenidate on extracellular dopamine, serotonin, and norepinephrine: comparison with amphetamine. - PubMed - NCBI

"Methylphenidate promotes a dose-dependent behavioral profile that is very comparable to that of amphetamine. Amphetamine increases extracellular norepinephrine and serotonin, in addition to its effects on dopamine, and these latter effects may play a role in the behavioral effects of amphetamine-like stimulants. To examine further the relative roles of dopamine, norepinephrine, and serotonin in the behavioral response to amphetamine-like stimulants, we assessed extracellular dopamine and serotonin in caudate putamen and norepinephrine in hippocampus in response to various doses of methylphenidate (10, 20, and 30 mg/kg) that produce stereotyped behaviors, and compared the results with those of a dose of amphetamine (2.5 mg/kg) that produces a level of stereotypies comparable to the intermediate dose of methylphenidate. The methylphenidate-induced changes in dopamine and its metabolites were consistent with changes induced by other uptake blockers, and the magnitude of the dopamine response for a behaviorally comparable dose was considerably less than that with amphetamine. Likewise, the dose-dependent increase in norepinephrine in response to methylphenidate was also significantly less than that with amphetamine. However, in contrast to amphetamine, methylphenidate had no effect on extracellular serotonin. These results do not support the hypothesis that a stimulant-induced increase in serotonin is necessary for the appearance of stereotyped behaviors."

 

[Jsaute21]

That's fascinating @DaveFoster. I have always felt good on ADD medication though i take it very rarely.

 

[Parsifal]

Still increases adrenalin I guess which can lead to anxiety?

 

[Agent207]

What does meth to give you that pleasant and insanely horny feeling?

 

[DaveFoster]

That's fascinating @DaveFoster. I have always felt good on ADD medication though i take it very rarely.

Interesting; do you drink coffee when you take it?

@Parsifal True, similar to caffeine. There was a study where low-dose caffeine and low-dose methylphenidate was more effective than either drug alone to improve attention.

 

[pboy]

a friend years ago had Adderall subscription (and other related salts) and a few times id take them to 'study' which worked for a minute or two but then I found it actually motivated me to live more than do things I didn't want to do...maybe they increase dopamine which if you didn't enjoy school or didn't see benefit in it might actually, like in my case, prevent you or steer you into something different than studying. It was good to drink with and various things, but all the while it was evident it was like non natural and kind of wirey and eventually depraving and weird so I stopped even taking them at all, I felt bad or like kind of befuddled how a doctor could prescribe something that powerful, and 2 a day nonetheless, to a child or even college or high school student, it would be literally like living on a cleaner meth or something...I get it it can be fun a time or two here and there or allow you to go to work post hangover or something but its really just a strong synthetic stimulant that is pretty taxing on the system, and basically if used consistently for even a couple days in a row will leave you drained, or did for me, and others to an extent that I talked to. I think people like it to be honest because its sort of maybe antimicrobial? not sure or selectively, I think it just ramps up immunity which might leave you weaker eventually but like girls would take it so they didn't have to eat and could function and try to lose weight, I noticed the first time or one of the first i took it a normal thing id eat for breakfast tasted like empty dogfood...paste or just completely inedible...there was like no salivation, which indicates major fight or flight, then also id go to the bathroom like 3-4 times in a day...so in a sense people can maybe get addicted to it cause it can purge and helpd lose weight or smoething but its clearly not healthy or a normal way, it might be an extreme fight or flight triggerer, not really a metabolism and growth promoted, but I guess the initial time the dopamine surge someone might be able to make some kind of use out of...ultimately its not that ideal or safe and better things exist...if it wasn't for the ability to smoke, or even drink at times back then id definitely not have taken it just sober and functioned on that alone it would be tremendously uncomfortable I think

 

[DaveFoster]

@pboy

Thanks for the wisdom. My psyche just screams at me to quite college, as I need all these forms of self-medication just to get through. Then again, I tell myself I would have the same problems in the real world.

 

[pboy]

yea basically its a weird thing, its like can you fault people for doing something that will make them money? some people, rarely, are actually doing something in college they like and learn as go...but still the vibe of the instition and the whole implications of that system and jobs isn't totally done right or pure in my opinion especially now days, I don't think it gives enough room for individual work or people that learn better on their own for the most part then just the authoritative vibe of it, time forced to do it is a bit pushing it I think most agree on that, it can consume a lot of life excessively in my opinion, but then at the same time most people I assume are pushing through it, sort of shutting down and just doing it for the sake of money all the while somewhat closing themselves off to do it...then become proud of their degree, glorifying or thinking the whole system is ok and all that...I don't see personally how putting up with being somewhat rammed and closing off your heart is something to be proud of...but the money thing cause the system of merit/degree jobs ect but still I dunno, I get it...like personally I couldn't do it cause of the things I mentioned above, I learn a ton better in the flow of life as things become important and from internet or other sources and do hands on self experimentation and learning...theres few things that actually require equipment a college would have like science or chemistry or high physics things, other than that own time can pretty much cover even the tangible hands on things...wouldn't it be cool if you could simply pass a test and maybe demonstrate a few things in a lab and get the degree/certification? that way you could do the learning on your own or ask people you liked in your own time and pace, pay maybe a 100 and get the degree? it makes sense, but that authoritative control money stickler thing I think keeps that system the way it is, or its just antiquated and no one has questioned or promoted strongly enough a new option...I stopped going after a few years, learned so much more about everything and life post and then have gone back time to time, proved to myself id gotten even better than before, and could easily 'ace' it but basically the same hang ups were there in terms not liking the system, doing work as an authority said and excessive control, large amounts money spent, ect ect...so I guess its just some people aren't willing to put up with that, which is that a disadvantage in the 'work world?' it might not have to be, I think as the internet and just in general the spirit of independence influences society more hopefully that system will change a bit. I think in your situation, probably similar to my own, there might be more pressing needs at the time or just not wanting to learn in such a controlled environment amongst maybe other things, its hard to force yourself to do anything against your will, especially when it isn't necessarily paying off right away or the so called pay off will be a job you don't necessarily like or will eventually try to get out of and do something else anyways. I don't know what to say but at least youre aware, if you manage to finish and then make money I suppose if theres enough breathing room you could buy some time but to force against current heart or will is really hard to do I know and not really gonna be able to in good faith recomomend that to anyone, whether or not it would be a net benefit is too sensitive for me to try to give advice about (what id want to say is never don't follow your heart but there might be an off chance occasionally something could tuen out to be a decent experience for other reasons maybe than even thought in the long run but again its sensitive and has to be gauged by people I think in their own life...very sensitive cause how would you know that ahead of time?) just go with whatever seems best id say

as per Adderall though I dunno I think in a sense chemical medicines might throw off the ability to easily hone what is coming from a genuine place and what might be slightly resulting from an imbalance they might be contributing to. It might be easier to gauge whats authentic and more real and present without chemicals or synthetics in the system

 

[DaveFoster]

yea basically its a weird thing, its like can you fault people for doing something that will make them money? some people, rarely, are actually doing something in college they like and learn as go...but still the vibe of the instition and the whole implications of that system and jobs isn't totally done right or pure in my opinion especially now days, I don't think it gives enough room for individual work or people that learn better on their own for the most part then just the authoritative vibe of it, time forced to do it is a bit pushing it I think most agree on that, it can consume a lot of life excessively in my opinion, but then at the same time most people I assume are pushing through it, sort of shutting down and just doing it for the sake of money all the while somewhat closing themselves off to do it...then become proud of their degree, glorifying or thinking the whole system is ok and all that...I don't see personally how putting up with being somewhat rammed and closing off your heart is something to be proud of...but the money thing cause the system of merit/degree jobs ect but still I dunno, I get it...like personally I couldn't do it cause of the things I mentioned above, I learn a ton better in the flow of life as things become important and from internet or other sources and do hands on self experimentation and learning...theres few things that actually require equipment a college would have like science or chemistry or high physics things, other than that own time can pretty much cover even the tangible hands on things...wouldn't it be cool if you could simply pass a test and maybe demonstrate a few things in a lab and get the degree/certification? that way you could do the learning on your own or ask people you liked in your own time and pace, pay maybe a 100 and get the degree? it makes sense, but that authoritative control money stickler thing I think keeps that system the way it is, or its just antiquated and no one has questioned or promoted strongly enough a new option...I stopped going after a few years, learned so much more about everything and life post and then have gone back time to time, proved to myself id gotten even better than before, and could easily 'ace' it but basically the same hang ups were there in terms not liking the system, doing work as an authority said and excessive control, large amounts money spent, ect ect...so I guess its just some people aren't willing to put up with that, which is that a disadvantage in the 'work world?' it might not have to be, I think as the internet and just in general the spirit of independence influences society more hopefully that system will change a bit. I think in your situation, probably similar to my own, there might be more pressing needs at the time or just not wanting to learn in such a controlled environment amongst maybe other things, its hard to force yourself to do anything against your will, especially when it isn't necessarily paying off right away or the so called pay off will be a job you don't necessarily like or will eventually try to get out of and do something else anyways. I don't know what to say but at least youre aware, if you manage to finish and then make money I suppose if theres enough breathing room you could buy some time but to force against current heart or will is really hard to do I know and not really gonna be able to in good faith recomomend that to anyone, whether or not it would be a net benefit is too sensitive for me to try to give advice about (what id want to say is never don't follow your heart but there might be an off chance occasionally something could tuen out to be a decent experience for other reasons maybe than even thought in the long run but again its sensitive and has to be gauged by people I think in their own life...very sensitive cause how would you know that ahead of time?) just go with whatever seems best id say

as per Adderall though I dunno I think in a sense chemical medicines might throw off the ability to easily hone what is coming from a genuine place and what might be slightly resulting from an imbalance they might be contributing to. It might be easier to gauge whats authentic and more real and present without chemicals or synthetics in the system

True, but I don't know if gauging reality as it is would be beneficial if my body hates it's current mode of behavior. I'd think that's the point of taking stimulants, as they're making your body find inertia where it wouldn't be normally.

I didn't know you left college and went back; that's very interesting. Ray talks about how you're expected to work within the barriers of the system, and then eject later to change it, but he said it's ludicrous to think that such a thing would happen very often.

 

[pboy]

i don't think I'm a normal case but I suppose I'm willing to take things as far as need be to not succumb to something deemed unrighteous or invasive, id want to change it, I think its the right thing to do, you can put things out there and all that but I suppose at the end of the day it depends on individuals deciding to initiate things cause I don't necessarily have power to enact lawful changes or something but who knows what will happen...life sort of put me in a situation where going back was something to do but it was enlightening, I thought I knew a lot growing up and had immunity to that system, it was proven right almost worse or as bad as I thought and from a mature perspective or more wise/experienced perspective its pretty pathetic and blatantly controlling/enslaving even to an extent, like really dumbly bad. You cant say teaching people and all that is bad and not everyone there is bad but the overall system is so oppressive and just authoritative and theres huge weight and fear put into people that it ruins any good benefit there might be, it just needs to be drastically changed. You can use whatever mindful techniques and pacing and all that but if the threat is technically your well being to the extent of fundamental security, the body/mind has an extremely hard time just shutting that out completely...so you either basically, what a lot of people do I guess though some might have some bit of space in there, take it on, which is like basically being rammed or hit I dont know a better way to put it, or you just don't go with it and make it on your own...the people who say, though morally not ideal, I'm just doing it for the money and just regurgitate to get the grade are almost maybe more protected than the people who actually like take it in as something rightful and good and happy and all that, again there might be a rare situation where someone could kind of do that or maybe in rare case actually, but it seems the vast majority of the way school is a normal response of a self governing self respecting human that was pretty innocent would be to stand up or resist and be like wtf is this I don't deserve to be led around and controlled this much, nor charged with such weight or pressure...its incondusive to learning not to mention nearly inhumane, don't know if anyone agrees but I think that's the case for someone who was not basically shut down by the system from a young age. Youre supposed to like be rushed not really care about basic mental/physical detox, hold excrement until few rare times if at all during some days or whatever, rush through eating poor quality cafeteria food, and just not question anything and think everything they say or teach is exactly as is and that's all you need to know and its all the right thing. Its no wonder college people act like they do with drinking excessively and all that other stuff, it takes almost a foolish level release to (not dissing that btw its whatever at a point it can be something relatively enjoyable or a something to experience in life don't think long term its ideal) counter the effect of the binding and pressurous forces of the normal school. I think that kind of mentality gets engrained in people then perpetrated into the outside world also in some businesses and corporations, like you aren't supposed to respect basic health and fundamental things that keep someone healthy happy and in rythmn with their body, and if you have standards, awareness, try to do the right thing, care about others well being, and expect some sort of harmony and respect of human nature and things, you're sort of ostracized or don't get hired at places or it becomes where its like either you just fit in to the machinistic system or you threaten being fired or whatever...its not like that all the time and perhaps society jut reflects the individuals and somehow a lot of people put up with that and somehow don't like get upset enough to demand a change in their life. Perhaps personally I just don't like doing repetitive work as a cog for more time than I think is humane and have movement, what you can say, ect controlled...but I have good ethics and so think its fair to be allowed to make free good choices, be flexible, ect, and to change up what I do time to time...I think that's kind of a more true human nature that perhaps many people would be more happy doing. The response from the authorities or bosses on that is yea but not a lot of people can be trusted, they have to be managed and watched, and/or are lazy so have to be pushed and things...I don't know what to say to that, but since I'm not like that I think there should at the least be exceptions to the rule, but then again I avoid those situations so I guess maybe it plays out, its just somewhat annoying, or was for a time, that the seeming majority of paying jobs operated like that but now days theres some other options, maybe always was, but I still think the school system should be ideally drastically changed to be more condusive to health, natural human rythmn, and learning...and it could translate into the business/job world also if people were used to that and realized its benefit

 

[Mufasa]

I've been on ritalin for a long time, I would advice not to take it. It has not brought me anything.

In my opinion it doesn't heal anything long term, it just gets the best out of you short term. And long term everything becomes worse. After a month, you're focus on ritalin is as good as it was without it, when you started.

After a year, you're focus on ritalin is half as good, as it was without ritalin in the first place. But then if you don't take ritalin, your focus is so bad, that you will like you have to take it.

This thing for me went on for years. At the end, I felt so stupid. Like literally, super low IQ. No focus. No warmth. Just an icecold autistic nobody.

What I would recommend, except for everything that we agree on here diet wise, is yoga. Seriously, this stuff is great. What my problem has been, and still is sometimes, is that I never truly relax. What does our generation do if we relax? Go watch videos on youtube? Play video games? Chat with people on forum? None of this truly relaxing. You are sitting before a screen with blue light, and WIFI, and EMF, or whatever. Your posture is probably bad. All your attention is mentally, not any is physically. You can't heal that way.

To heal, I think step 1 is, find some activity that truly relax you. Something that gets your attention out of your head, to your body. For me yoga does this. I have to do it in a class, otherwise I can't get my focus out of my zombie computer head.

Just some thoughts...

 

[pboy]

its true sometimes things are stressful but I think 'relaxing' is opening up in a sense so things can release, which might be doing something exciting in fact, or enjoyable, as long as you feel safe comfortable in the environment, whereas something like 'relaxing' if its a depressed way or sort of in a non juiced optimistic way might not be doing a ton, or a serotonin state for example. Via salivation appetite movement of GI you can tell where the benefit is, sometimes exciting things or progressing is better than sitting or something, or if someone liked a VG, I agree in the sense sometimes it might not forward life but sometimes being in heart mind will spirit all kind of lined up for even that time even though its a fake thing so to speak it can somewhat purge those channels of the physiology, once you or if you can get that in life actually head up its probably better but id say rather than being depressed or getting rigid in those channels something like that would be a better option...think a person who say didn't like their job or something in their life, do you think theyd be more optimistic to be around and have a more positive energy if they went home and kind of just put something on TV or just laid down due to 'burden' or whatever they felt, or if they played a VG and at least for that time got excited and somewhat happy...I cant fault someone for that, generally I think if someone has good energy they are trying, whatever stage they are at they aren't gonna be that offensive or inclined to be a bad energy to be around, where as whatever supposed stage someone is at if they are bitter or depressed or heavy depending, sometimes not necessarily depressed depends how they go about it but still, ultimately really people on your level its good but in terms of respectability or comfort being around, its the people that are at least positive and doing something trying at least to forward or be positive that tend to be better than those that dont. Yoga can be good and especially cause the whole vibe of it might open people more to the wholsitic metaphysical or otherwise aspects of life and bring in nutrition and rythmn of life and things, and is sort of counter to mechanistic mainstream society, but there can also be that religious thing or authorative thing with it also where if people miss the point its not much different than anything else like that...the kind of thing like 'youre bad you must do this penance' so to speak, instead of like its actually enjoyable and fun as you do it and something you'd wanna do. Theres those quotes about reading the menu but missing the actual food kind of thing, yoga is like that people sometimes I think miss the point, its meant to open the mind and physiology connection to various channels and therefore modes of operation and states of being, so then you actually can apply them in life in the total sense...its not just to do it so you can do it...it sort of inevitably will probably influence someone in their life that's the point, but its better if people know that realize it and make applying those vibes in their life the priority or the point of the poses and things...its like body building but then never actually doing anything in life that actually requires physical strength or whatever...the point in the thing should be to advance or open possibilities or indicate state of potential being or feeling as to actually do them or be able to utilize them for better greater things in life

 

[DaveFoster]

What does meth to give you that pleasant and insanely horny feeling?

Learn to enjoy the horniness. • r/NoFap

I just read this, and I thought of your post. There's a poster on that thread that mentions how NoFap is akin to being on meth 24/7, except he can sleep at night.

Drinking 600 mg of caffeine as coffee with plenty of support makes my libido skyrocket.

After reading into it, caffeine, methylphenidate (Ritalin), and methamphetamine all increase the enzyme 5-ar, which results in higher DHT levels.

Caffeine Increases DHT By Enhancing 5-alpha Reductase

Sex hormones metabolism in the brain: influence of central acting drugs on 5 alpha-reduction in rat diencephalon. - PubMed - NCBI

"...Diencephalon 5 alpha-reductase activity showed a highly significant increase (p less than 0.01) after a single administration of carbamazepine, reserpine, diazepam, phenytoin, phenobarbital or disulfiram. A significant increase (p less than 0.05) was also found after a single administration of methylphenidate, caffeine or methamphetamine."

Consdering DHT's central role in male libido, it seems like the probable mechanism.

DHT Is The Primary Driver Of Male Sexual Activity And Is Crucial For Male Orgasm

 

[tfcjesse]

But we can agree that while raising DHT is almost unarguably good for the body, taking Adderall persistently is almost certainly bad. Right?

 

[DaveFoster]

But we can agree that while raising DHT is almost unarguably good for the body, taking Adderall persistently is almost certainly bad. Right?

Methamphetamine is not the same as dexedrine or Adderall (a mix of amphetamine salts), but there's evidence that amphetamine and its derivatives have neurotoxic potential, and methamphetamine causes glutamergic excitotoxicity.

The effects of amphetamine (or at least methylphenidate (Ritalin)) can be mimicked with caffeine, but it requires a large amount of sucrose (as in 1 cup of table sugar per 100-200 mg, possibly 300 mg) and some way to inhibit lipolysis, such as 100-200 mg of niacinamide taken 3-5 times per day. If taken in >300 mg doses, then thiamine can be used in doses of 300 mg with each dose of caffeine to reduce the ammonia load on the kidneys.

 

[Jsaute21]

Learn to enjoy the horniness. • r/NoFap

I just read this, and I thought of your post. There's a poster on that thread that mentions how NoFap is akin to being on meth 24/7, except he can sleep at night.

Drinking 600 mg of caffeine as coffee with plenty of support makes my libido skyrocket.

After reading into it, caffeine, methylphenidate (Ritalin), and methamphetamine all increase the enzyme 5-ar, which results in higher DHT levels.

Caffeine Increases DHT By Enhancing 5-alpha Reductase



Consdering DHT's central role in male libido, it seems like the probable mechanism.

DHT Is The Primary Driver Of Male Sexual Activity And Is Crucial For Male Orgasm

Ritalin raises DHT?

 

[Jsaute21]

Ritalin raises DHT?

Any thoughts on the above? Is DHT raises because of the surge in metabolism from the stimulant?

 

[TubZy]

Any thoughts on the above? Is DHT raises because of the surge in metabolism from the stimulant?

It increases 5AR in the brain in the same way caffeine does

 

[TubZy]

Methamphetamine is not the same as dexedrine or Adderall (a mix of amphetamine salts), but there's evidence that amphetamine and its derivatives have neurotoxic potential, and methamphetamine causes glutamergic excitotoxicity.

The effects of amphetamine (or at least methylphenidate (Ritalin)) can be mimicked with caffeine, but it requires a large amount of sucrose (as in 1 cup of table sugar per 100-200 mg, possibly 300 mg) and some way to inhibit lipolysis, such as 100-200 mg of niacinamide taken 3-5 times per day. If taken in >300 mg doses, then thiamine can be used in doses of 300 mg with each dose of caffeine to reduce the ammonia load on the kidneys.

That is how much sugar you take with your caffeine doses? Do you notice a difference when you take less ?

 

[tomisonbottom]

The effects of amphetamine (or at least methylphenidate (Ritalin)) can be mimicked with caffeine, but it requires a large amount of sucrose (as in 1 cup of table sugar per 100-200 mg, possibly 300 mg) and some way to inhibit lipolysis, such as 100-200 mg of niacinamide taken 3-5 times per day. If taken in >300 mg doses, then thiamine can be used in doses of 300 mg with each dose of caffeine to reduce the ammonia load on the kidneys.

Hey Dave, why do you say 1 cup of sugar?

Are you saying this in reference to avoiding a stress response, or for having the same "feeling" as ritalin?

I can take 400 mg caff with enough food without adding sugar, so I'm curious as to how you came up with the 1 cup amount....