Hair Loss Talk

[Mufasa]

people who reduce it regrow hair,

however, like I said, you should use progesterone to do this, not the other things I mentioned

Yes, but they take finasteride, which is likely progesteronic by itself. I don't think it is that simple. Scientists have though for years that benign prostatic hyperplasia was due to DHT as well, because people that lack DHT naturally, don't suffer from BPH. However, the latest research seems to suggest the opposite, that DHT is protective for BPH.

however, like I said, you should use progesterone to do this, not the other things I mentioned

Progesterone is feminizing, so basically you say, the only way to keep your head full of hairs is to become feminized. Lots of people with very high T and DHT level, have a full head of hair. Actually, when T and DHT begin to decline, with aging, hair loss becomes much more common.

 

[johnwester130]

progesterone is not feminizing

this is a myth

 

[Mufasa]

progesterone is not feminizing

this is a myth

Explain.

 

[johnwester130]

see progesteronetherapy.com

and Untitled Document

 

[Mufasa]

see progesteronetherapy.com

and Untitled Document

It doesn't explain your statement. It only says:

"Did you know your prostate actually has progesterone receptors. To have a healthy prostate gland, your receptors must constantly have enough blood progesterone to keep them filled. Studies on laboratory animals have actually reduced the weights of their prostates just by giving them natural progesterone. We need some studies on real men here. Progesterone is therefore anti-feminizing in men."

I don't see the reasoning that makes him conclude this bold statement. I haven't studied why or how too much progesterone could be feminizing, but I trusted Ray Peat's and Danny Roddy's remarks on this. But even your document says that progesterone lowers DHT, so yes, that makes it at least anti-masculine, because DHT is a very powerful androgen.

Man that are genetically deficient in DHT, are unable to grow a penis at birth. And grow some what of a penis at the age of 12. They have higher pitched voices, less body hair, and beard growth is scanty. People that boost their DHT levels, notice a higher libido.

I don't think it is healthy to unnaturally lower your DHT levels to that of aging male or female levels. I do think that my DHT levels have increased with this diet, mainly because my beard is finally fully grown (I used to have weird gaps in my beard and much velus like beard hair).

 

[TheHound]

let's be honest, DHT can cause balding.

but the solution isn't to block it with finasteride, saw palmetto, beta sitosterol. forget those and never take them.

Also, there is confusion between 5ar and DHT

Also, why do so many beneficial things reduce 5ar, like caffeine, zinc/copper, b6, progesterone ?

haidut has multiple posts showing that caffeine, zinc, and b6 all enhance 5ar unless the doses are very high. I believe it was zinc from 30-50mg increased 5ar and higher than 100mg decreased it

Caffeine Increases DHT By Enhancing 5-alpha Reductase

 

[johnwester130]

Progesterone has been shown to increase DHT in men ,

http://www.karger.com/Article/Pdf/122997

Why does everyone say it doesn't ?

 

[Mufasa]

Progesterone has been shown to increase DHT in men ,

http://www.karger.com/Article/Pdf/122997

Why does everyone say it doesn't ?

Haha, well you pointed me to a link which claims that progesterone is magic because it decreases DHT lol...

I haven't studied how supplemental progesterone affects DHT.

Btw you also said:

"however, like I said, you should use progesterone to do this [read: lower DHT], not the other things I mentioned"

 

[johnwester130]

No. we are confusing 5ar and DHT as the same thing

Progesterone is helpful, that can't be denied

 

[Mufasa]

No. we are confusing 5ar and DHT as the same thing

Progesterone is helpful, that can't be denied

So you think we should decrease 5ar, and DHT plays no role? By the way, caffeine increases T and DHT and 5ar:

Caffeine Increases DHT By Enhancing 5-alpha Reductase

I think progesterone is very helpful for hair loss, but I don't think it is necessary. There are other ways to decrease estrogen and prolactin.

 

[johnwester130]

what other ways ? progesterone is the strongest estrogen reducer

 

[Mufasa]

what other ways ? progesterone is the strongest estrogen reducer

In short: Keeping temps high, pulse up and stress low.

But basically, lowering estrogen is a big part where Ray Peat is all about. Have you read Ray Peat, or Hair Like A Fox? Aging and stress in general increases estrogen. And with impaired liver function it is hard to detox estrogen. Regular bowel movements help with estrogen clearance as well. Mushroom soup is highly anti-estrogenic. Vitamin A is. Caffeine is. Almost all pro Peat substances are directly or indirectly anti-estrogenic.

 

[Vinero]

But why does progesterone decrease libido and penis size? If those studies are correct that progesterone increases testosterone than we would expect the opposite to happen: bigger penis and higher libido.
One possibility is that testosterone isn't responsible for those things. Estrogen causes high libido and increase in penis size.

 

[johnwester130]

In theory, natural progesterone does not do those things

 

[Drareg]

"Blocking" or "switching off" adrenaline is pretty irresponsible advice considering it could stop a persons heart.

Yes but stopping the heart stops hair loss.

 

[Mjhl85]

Yes but stopping the heart stops hair loss.

So long as you have your priorities in order.
I think others might want to live, just a guess.

 

[Mufasa]

So long as you have your priorities in order.
I think others might want to live, just a guess.

Seems ambitious

 

[Mjhl85]

Seems ambitious

Like I said, it was just an assumption :p

 

[johnwester130]

"Propecia was/is synthesised from Progesterone; the female sex hormone. Is it any wonder that Propecia has a feminising effect on men?"
About Propecia; designed to mimic the hormones of a sexless FREAK.

Some people have said propecia is just a synthetic progestin,

but there exists no real evidence for that claim that I have ever found.

If it is, it seems far safer to just take normal progesterone.

also, consider this

" The 5 alpha reductase enzyme ALSO metabolizes progesterone to 5 alpha-dihydroprogesterone and deoxycorticosterone to 5 alpha-dihydrodeoxycorticosterone. And in the brain, the products of 5 alpha reductase inhibitors are transformed by another group of specific enzymes known as 3 alpha-hydroxysteroid dehydrogenases, which reduces 5 alpha-dihydrotestosterone to 3 alpha, 5 alpha-androstane 17b-diol (3a-diol), and 5 alpha-dihydroprogesterone to 3 alpha, 5 alpha-tetrahydroprogesterone (allopregnanolone). Similarly, 5 alpha-dihydrodeoxycorticosterone is further reduced to 3 alpha, 5 alpha-tetrahydrodeoxycorticosteron


"

 

[Mufasa]

"Propecia was/is synthesised from Progesterone; the female sex hormone. Is it any wonder that Propecia has a feminising effect on men?"
About Propecia; designed to mimic the hormones of a sexless FREAK.

Some people have said propecia is just a synthetic progestin,

but there exists no real evidence for that claim that I have ever found.

If it is, it seems far safer to just take normal progesterone.

also, consider this

" The 5 alpha reductase enzyme ALSO metabolizes progesterone to 5 alpha-dihydroprogesterone and deoxycorticosterone to 5 alpha-dihydrodeoxycorticosterone. And in the brain, the products of 5 alpha reductase inhibitors are transformed by another group of specific enzymes known as 3 alpha-hydroxysteroid dehydrogenases, which reduces 5 alpha-dihydrotestosterone to 3 alpha, 5 alpha-androstane 17b-diol (3a-diol), and 5 alpha-dihydroprogesterone to 3 alpha, 5 alpha-tetrahydroprogesterone (allopregnanolone). Similarly, 5 alpha-dihydrodeoxycorticosterone is further reduced to 3 alpha, 5 alpha-tetrahydrodeoxycorticosteron


"

Yeah, I agree with that it seems safer to take progesterone than finasteride. I would maybe experiment with it, if I felt like other strategies are ineffective. In general, I try to stay away from steroids including thyroid. I dont seem to nwed thyroid to keep temps up, as long as I use red light on my thyroid. I dont seem to need progesterone, to keep estrogen low, because my hairs seem to improve.

Progesterone is surely effective for hair loss in woman, I havent seen much males experiment with it. If you do, I would be interested in before after pictures.