Hair Loss Talk

[johnwester130]

you could use progesterone instead of finasteride, this man did

Still Confused, just started Progesterone Cream

 

[ecstatichamster]

@Tarmander remarked on a post somewhere, that he has met many diabetics, and they all seem to have a full head of hair. I'm assuming this is all-male diabetics. And type one. If so, there seems to be a clue here somewhere, no?

 

[Mufasa]

@Tarmander remarked on a post somewhere, that he has met many diabetics, and they all seem to have a full head of hair. I'm assuming this is all-male diabetics. And type one. If so, there seems to be a clue here somewhere, no?

I know one guy with diabetis, and he has the worst hair loss you can imagine.

Montagna talked about the role of insulin in hair grown in the "Biology of Hair Growth" in 1958.

"Insulin and not glucose seems to be the critical factor in the growth of hair follicles. Unlike the epidermis, hair follicles are able to grow normally despite changes in the concentration of blood glucose. Although both oxygen and a carbohydrate source are essential for maintaining the mitotic activity of a hair follicle in vitro, drastic conditions such as starvation or shock are required to influence such activity in vivo. The abundant supply of glycogen in growing hair follicles may partially account for the relative independence of the hair follicle from the level of circulating glucose."

 

[Tarmander]

@Tarmander remarked on a post somewhere, that he has met many diabetics, and they all seem to have a full head of hair. I'm assuming this is all-male diabetics. And type one. If so, there seems to be a clue here somewhere, no?

Yeah I have a large group of type 1 friends. With the exception of one guy in his 50s, who has a nice receding hair line, the guys have great hair. It's actually more of a polarity swap in truth. The women have thin and brittle hair and the guys have thick and luscious. This phenom is more pronounced in the people who were diagnosed the earliest.

 

[johnwester130]

HRT and hair loss

one person did reverse their baldness with spiro and finasteride, on a transgender forum

 

[DaveFoster]

Just an IdeaLabs idea... FolliKill, to destroy baldness.

 

[mayweatherking]

I know one guy with diabetis, and he has the worst hair loss you can imagine.

Montagna talked about the role of insulin in hair grown in the "Biology of Hair Growth" in 1958.

"Insulin and not glucose seems to be the critical factor in the growth of hair follicles. Unlike the epidermis, hair follicles are able to grow normally despite changes in the concentration of blood glucose. Although both oxygen and a carbohydrate source are essential for maintaining the mitotic activity of a hair follicle in vitro, drastic conditions such as starvation or shock are required to influence such activity in vivo. The abundant supply of glycogen in growing hair follicles may partially account for the relative independence of the hair follicle from the level of circulating glucose."

I think this carries a lot if weight and seems to be in my experience what has happened. anytime blood sugar spikes too high.. hair loss happens. but why? I think maybe lack of thyroid displaces essential minerals like mag calcium potassium and then those minerals are not there to do their job with that blood sugar. hats been my experience so far. the low mag also causing constipation doesn't help among other issues. really intriguing it doesn't happen to women.. I know it happens, but not.on.the same scale... especially when things like diabetes effects women. like why would that be, but not hair loss?

 

[Dante]

I think this carries a lot if weight and seems to be in my experience what has happened. anytime blood sugar spikes too high.. hair loss happens. but why? I think maybe lack of thyroid displaces essential minerals like mag calcium potassium and then those minerals are not there to do their job with that blood sugar. hats been my experience so far. the low mag also causing constipation doesn't help among other issues. really intriguing it doesn't happen to women.. I know it happens, but not.on.the same scale... especially when things like diabetes effects women. like why would that be, but not hair loss?

Have you tried this site https://perfecthairhealth.com/blog/, some good articles and a book. The diet is very similar to peat's but it also involves a 20 minute daily head massage. A lot of people report good benefits after a 10 month massage. Some people in this forum also reported that the scalp loosening has helped them.

 

[TubZy]

@haidut please god make a full post on hair loss and all the factors that hit it. i cannot solve it at all.

X2 please @haidut

Another option is to just add taurine, dhea and T3 and maybe a small to solban. just keep it with ethanol and water (like how it is now) so everything will concentrate locally in the tissue so it would still be different compared to your other products which contain dmso. All the hair loss people will buy

I'll admit I hate mixing this stuff myself.

 

[johnwester130]

X2 please @haidut

Another option is to just add taurine, dhea and T3 and maybe a small to solban. just keep it with ethanol and water (like how it is now) so everything will concentrate locally in the tissue so it would still be different compared to your other products which contain dmso. All the hair loss people will buy

I'll admit I hate mixing this stuff myself.

have you tried LLLT ?

however it needs copper to activate the cytochrome c oxidase

 

[redlight]

I been taking grape seed extract, i like it for hair

 

[TubZy]

have you tried LLLT ?

however it needs copper to activate the cytochrome c oxidase

No, I don't really believe in that honestly to work well. I know many people that tried it with no results. My hair has pretty much stabilized with the regimen I'm on so it hasn't really crossed my mind much either.

 

[ddjd]

nitric oxide (super important in male hair loss, promoted by endotoxin, infinitely more impactful than thyroid malfunction)

The two are completely related. High nitric oxide = bad thyroid function

 

[benaoao]

Which isoform?

Seems that NOS is associated with hyper thyroid, I ca be wrong since Ray seems to be against a higher NO (although I dislike pre workouts just as much)

https://pdfs.semanticscholar.org/2480/1040acc0f9c9cfde5d689c79c62bec4a884b.pdf

 

[benaoao]

Long post incoming.

Well from my understanding, people should stop denying a few things:

- DHT stimulates aromatase activity, causes sebum buildup, leads to hair loss
- taking 5ar inhibitors works because of the facts above
- taking 5ar inhibitors is god awful because DHT is necessary

Also:
- supplementing progesterone isn't addressing the problem, may cause more problems because of 5ar inhibition
- removing sebum buildup may help but the underlying cause has to be addressed; if not the body will produce twice as much sebum

Now bear with me before banning me from this forum for daring to say here on RPforum.com that DHT means hair loss and progesterone isn't the solution.

As all peatarians would like to read, the issue is thyroid. A healthy t3 level means a higher activity of the enzymes which converts DHT into 3bDiol. Which binds to the estrogen receptor. Read up on 3bDiol here, it's a great anti-inflammatory molecule subject to research in prostate cancer.

I'm going to copy and paste what's copied and pasted on the other forum above (although they don't seem to tie it to thyroid, welllll I'm doing it)

Risks of adverse drug reactions (ADRs) to 5AR inhibitors increase with dose.
Common ADRs with these drugs include impotence, decreased libido, and decreased ejaculate volume.
Rare ADRs include breast tenderness and enlargement, and allergic reaction.

Should We Inhibit Production of DHT?
While 5a-DHT has been implicated in male pattern baldness and benign prostatic hypertrophy,
the real concern is prostate cancer. As early as 1986, it was suspected by some that 5a-DHT might be a
primary contributing factor to prostate cancer growth.15
5a-Reductase (5AR) is responsible for conversion of testosterone to 5a-dihydrotestosterone (5a-DHT).
5a-DHT is about three times as potent as testosterone due to its greater affinity for androgen receptors.16
However, recent studies have correlated low levels of DHT with decreased survival in prostate cancer patients.17,18,19
Interestingly, a 2008 study found that giving testosterone to elderly men who had lower than normal levels of testosterone
and elevated levels of DHT resulted in reduced plasma 5a-DHT levels.20
Another study in 2007, a 15-yr follow up of men with prostate cancer,
study shows evidence that low DHT is associated with decreased prostate cancer survival. 21

Over-inhibition of 5α-Reductase Activity
While 5a-DHT is considered to be a potential cause of proliferation and growth in the prostate, its metabolite
5a-androstane-3b,17b-diol (3b-Adiol)
is a differentiating agent that activates estrogen receptor beta (ERb) and may help prevent cancer.
Therefore, caution is warranted when inhibiting 5AR because without adequate DHT the production of 3β-adiol
may be over-inhibited as well.22

Research regarding the benefits of adequate 3β-adiol is growing.
3β-adiol is an androgen that stimulates only estrogen receptor beta (ERb),
which has anti-proliferative and re-differentiation activities.
Among other functions, ERb helps regulate prostate growth and differentiation.23,24,25,26
ERb is also an important modulator of the stress response in the brain.27,28
Over-inhibition of 5AR can result in under-stimulation of ERb,
changing the balance of proliferative/anti-proliferative activity in the prostate and elsewhere.

Heavy metals, such as cadmium and arsenic, may also inhibit the production of 3β-adiol.29,30
These heavy metals have been correlated with increased prostate cancer risks.

Conclusions: Ray has it right with thyroid
- don't blame androgen hormones (that's for the retards in hair loss forums and the doctors who still prescribe finasteride/dutasteride), do blame hypothyroidism screwing up everything
- DHT ought to be metabolized, if not, it becomes a direct problem cue follicle shrinkage, sebum buildup, inflammation and hair loss. People without DHT may not have those issues, good for them. People with high DHT conversion shouldn't have those issues, much better.

rephrased differently:
- a healthy thyroid should mean a high DHT conversion into a more desirable metabolite. So convert it.

What to do:
- focus on thyroid, and what increases free T3 to where it should be (read: be insulin sensitive, eat more carbs)
- don't take sex hormone supplements as a response to an issue, fix the issue instead (or take thyroid supplements with a doctor supervision. Shoot for free t3 in the upper half of the range. Pay attention to reverse t3 i.e. less stress more sleep. Careful with insulin resistance)
- increase body temperature before doing blood tests, since blood tests aren't really reflecting peripheral conversion anyway
- you can take urine tests for test metabolites but that's not easy to find IME

Quick anecdote - I'm feeling hypo right now because I'm taking Tamoxifen (PCT because of getting off TRT) and slowly tapering it off. Tamoxifen generally increases Thyroxine Binding Globulin (estrogens too). I'm always very warm, now I'm shivering all day.

So a good self education would be to read up on TBG (what raises it, what lowers it), and the enzymes that convert DHT into 3b diol (what raises their activity, what suppresses them)

As a leader in preventive medicine we are very interested in the growing body of evidence that the
ratio of 5a-DHT to 3β-adiol may much more important than absolute levels alone.

edit with a source from a quick research on t3 and enzymes. t3 increases preg>prog conversion. t3 increases dht>3bHSD. A healthy thyroid is that crucial.

https://www.researchgate.net/public...ogenase_activity_in_the_porcine_corpus_luteum

 

[benaoao]

@haidut was discussing the 3b-HSD matter here by the way (another reason why I'm against TRT and stopping it - androgens decrease 3bHSD so more DHT, unless using nandrolone = more DHN which is weaker than DHT > "deca ****")

Oral Progesterone Increases Testosterone And DHT

I'm still not fond of progesterone in males after reading haidut there. I admit my bias though

more on how to induce DHT metabolism here (scroll down to the coconut/olive oil part)