Low Toxin Diet Grant Genereux's Theory Of Vitamin A Toxicity

[Lynne]

Interesting, do you have the timestamp for this question

No time stamp, soz, but it's comes up in 3 convod spread fairly evenly through the interview: carotene first; then later Patrick asks RP about VA limits, then later again there's a listener Q about VA tox.

 

[Collden]

Garrett Smith's interview on One Radio Network now avail. Note he now thinks a minimum of 6mths up to 2yrs is necessary for detox.
Dr. Garrett L. Smith - Nutrition Detective - Vitamin A is Not a True Vitamin and Vitamin A Toxicity is an Issue For Some People - May 7, 2019 - One Radio Network

How long has Dr Garrett Smith been on a low VA diet? He looks very hypothyroid.

Arguing in favour of following a low VA diet is the fact that most traditional cuisines around the world do not emphasise VA-rich foods, and people tend to instinctively shy away from very high VA foods like liver and large quantities of leafy greens. People are unlikely to accidentally eat a high VA diet unless influenced by some health fad like raw veganism or Weston A Price-ism or if inadvertently eating fortified foods.

Still glancing through this thread does not exactly overwhelmingly convince one of the benefits of going low VA, most people are just describing various "detox" symptoms going on for months and months, alternatively developing food hypersensitivites, which is also usually not a sign of improved health. Who here has actually unambiguously benefited from going low VA?

 

[Yi at LDT]

I think most will agree that the detox cycles are nothing in comparison to the benefits. I can certainly attest to the benefits of low VA.

I think we, people, adjust to our current state of health, how we are feeling, environment etc. what felt normal to me a year ago is now very hard to deal with. The detox cycles aren't fun but I definitely think for me at least it's relative to my new baseline of well being.

 

[postman]

I think most will agree that the detox cycles are nothing in comparison to the benefits. I can certainly attest to the benefits of low VA.

I think we, people, adjust to our current state of health, how we are feeling, environment etc. what felt normal to me a year ago is now very hard to deal with. The detox cycles aren't fun but I definitely think for me at least it's relative to my new baseline of well being.

Sure we feel better but is there a single person here who now tolerates a normal amount of vitamin A? I haven't seen a single cured person, seems like even if people eat no VA for months or years they still react very badly to it.

 

[Yi at LDT]

Havn't we? Might be time to collect and post some testimonials and progress reports

I wouldn't doubt tolerance can be built back up

 

[postman]

Havn't we? Might be time to collect and post some testimonials and progress reports

I wouldn't doubt tolerance can be built back up

Testimonials and progress reports yes, but regained tolerance no. If you have seen any such posts then yes please collect and post them.

 

[Collden]

Perhaps one would not develop hypersensitivity to VA with a more relaxed dietary attitude that doesn't completely eliminate but just greatly reduces VA? The body and mind will normally become more sensitive to anything that it is not regularly exposed to, the greater the avoidance the greater the sensitivity.

In researching more about traditional cuisines in different countries, its pretty striking the absence of high VA foods in traditional dishes around the world. Most staple vegetables are of the low VA type, high VA vegetables are mainly used for flavouring/decoration. WAPFers always go on about liver but it doesn't really seem to be an important ingredient in most food traditions. Where liver is popularly used it is usually in a preparation greatly diluted with fat.

 

[postman]

Perhaps one would not develop hypersensitivity to VA with a more relaxed dietary attitude that doesn't completely eliminate but just greatly reduces VA? The body and mind will normally become more sensitive to anything that it is not regularly exposed to, the greater the avoidance the greater the sensitivity.

I'm researching more about traditional cuisines in different countries and its pretty striking the absence of high VA foods in traditional dishes around the world. Most staple vegetables are of the low-VA type, high VA vegetables are mainly used for flavouring/decoration. WAPFers always go on about liver but it doesn't really seem to be an important ingredient in most food traditions. Where liver is popularly used it is usually in a preparation greatly diluted with fat.

No this is nonsense beause the hypersensitivity exists before the diet is attempted. I don't think anyone gets more sensitive to VA as time goes along on this diet, it just seems stagnant. I've tried varying degrees of strictness for a long time now, the sensitivity is always the same. Except if I go really low I could tolerate a single meal of slightly higher VA but anything more and I felt terrible again. It's like saying fasting cures you from stomach irritation, no it doesn't really cure anything, once you start eating irritating foods your stomach irritation comes back. But you might feel fine for a meal or two.

 

[Collden]

Tolerance is all about habituating yourself to a sensation. If you constantly avoid VA then of course your response to VA when and if you do consume it is gonna be super noticeable, psychologically compounded by the fact that you now consider VA toxic and expect to feel horrible when you have some. There is no way to build tolerance to anything without exposing yourself to it.

 

[postman]

Tolerance is all about habituating yourself to a sensation. If you constantly avoid VA then of course your response to VA when and if you do consume it is gonna be super noticeable, psychologically compounded by the fact that you now consider VA toxic and expect to feel horrible when you have some. There is no way to build tolerance to anything without exposing yourself to it.

Nonsensical argument, like suggesting building physical tolerance to arsenic is desirable. Yes you might feel less horrible effects from acute consumption but instead you're gonna feel like garbage 24/7.

 

[Collden]

Might be more akin to caffeine. Caffeine is also a toxin, consume too much of it and you will feel like crap. Avoiding it completely will however weaken you and create hypersensitivity not just to caffeine but to any methylxanthine. The ideal is to consume the right amount that gives your system a substantial exposure without overburdening it.

 

[InChristAlone]

Might be more akin to caffeine. Caffeine is also a toxin, consume too much of it and you will feel like crap. Avoiding it completely will however weaken you and create hypersensitivity not just to caffeine but to any methylxanthine. The ideal is to consume the right amount that gives your system a substantial exposure without overburdening it.

Not using caffeine though is not a weakness. It just means you aren't adapted to it, that's not because your system is weak though.

 

[Pet Peeve]

I think it's important to account for cortisol and adrenaline. I was eating carotenoid rich foods before reading about any of this and remember getting anxious after every meal. My reasoning was that I had gi inflammation from celiac and that cortisol and/or adrenaline was released to counter the inflammation. This was confirmed for me when the pollen season started a couple of months ago and I had to use an andrenaline/cortisol inhaler. It gave me the exact same anxiety as after eating. Cortisol and adrenaline wake you up and are anti-inflammatory. Stop eating VA and you will feel tired and more inflamed in certain ways. Coffee will only help a little.

 

[Amazoniac]

- You Need Vitamin D To Live. How Could This Woman Survive With None In Her Blood?

 

[Tarmander]

How long has Dr Garrett Smith been on a low VA diet? He looks very hypothyroid.

Arguing in favour of following a low VA diet is the fact that most traditional cuisines around the world do not emphasise VA-rich foods, and people tend to instinctively shy away from very high VA foods like liver and large quantities of leafy greens. People are unlikely to accidentally eat a high VA diet unless influenced by some health fad like raw veganism or Weston A Price-ism or if inadvertently eating fortified foods.

Still glancing through this thread does not exactly overwhelmingly convince one of the benefits of going low VA, most people are just describing various "detox" symptoms going on for months and months, alternatively developing food hypersensitivites, which is also usually not a sign of improved health. Who here has actually unambiguously benefited from going low VA?

My worst symptom is lung related. Coughing crap up and sometimes bloating and having a hard time breathing. Finding ways around that. I trade that in for white teeth, weight loss, and amazing mental abilities compared to what I used to have. If it wasn't worth it and I was just detoxing my way to some low VA utopia I wouldn't do it. I have done enough "detoxing" and feeling bad that I am very pragmatically based. Results must come.

Sure we feel better but is there a single person here who now tolerates a normal amount of vitamin A? I haven't seen a single cured person, seems like even if people eat no VA for months or years they still react very badly to it.

I can do a meal with some dairy or some other light VA sources without much problem. If I do a day of it I start feeling off. I don't really think my tolerance has changed much, kind of agreeing with your point.

Tolerance is all about habituating yourself to a sensation. If you constantly avoid VA then of course your response to VA when and if you do consume it is gonna be super noticeable, psychologically compounded by the fact that you now consider VA toxic and expect to feel horrible when you have some. There is no way to build tolerance to anything without exposing yourself to it.

I ate liver, eggs, orange juice, and milk in plenty over the years...did not habituate me to it.

Hey Maybe low VA is for RP diet people only? Drowning in VA

 

[InChristAlone]

How long has Dr Garrett Smith been on a low VA diet? He looks very hypothyroid.

Arguing in favour of following a low VA diet is the fact that most traditional cuisines around the world do not emphasise VA-rich foods, and people tend to instinctively shy away from very high VA foods like liver and large quantities of leafy greens. People are unlikely to accidentally eat a high VA diet unless influenced by some health fad like raw veganism or Weston A Price-ism or if inadvertently eating fortified foods.

Still glancing through this thread does not exactly overwhelmingly convince one of the benefits of going low VA, most people are just describing various "detox" symptoms going on for months and months, alternatively developing food hypersensitivites, which is also usually not a sign of improved health. Who here has actually unambiguously benefited from going low VA?

He's been on it at least 6 months now. You can't really go based on his looks, he has never been very attractive looking. But I'd say based on these photos, one of him over a year ago and one of him just recently during a facebook live, that he looks maybe a little better.
before
after

Hard to tell, he probably hasn't looked awesome since he was young. Naturopaths try all kinds of strange diets and supplements on themselves. People are going to look worse as they age. Just look at Ray Peat now vs when he was a young lad. If only we could stay so vibrant and youthful looking! Unfortunately we will all look pretty bad in our old age.

 

[Collden]

He's been on it at least 6 months now. You can't really go based on his looks, he has never been very attractive looking. But I'd say based on these photos, one of him over a year ago and one of him just recently during a facebook live, that he looks maybe a little better.
View attachment 13318before
View attachment 13319 after

Hard to tell, he probably hasn't looked awesome since he was young. Naturopaths try all kinds of strange diets and supplements on themselves. People are going to look worse as they age. Just look at Ray Peat now vs when he was a young lad. If only we could stay so vibrant and youthful looking! Unfortunately we will all look pretty bad in our old age.

Thanks, didn't realise he'd only been on it for 6 months, its hard to judge after such short time in someone that old its true. Will be interesting to see if he can reverse his hypothyroidism with this diet as Vinero earlier suggested.

 

[Collden]

Its clear just from looking at the traditional diets of people around the world that the need for VA is probably way overblown by people like WAPFers, but its also clear that there's no culture on the planet that actively goes out of their way to completely avoid VA-containing foods. Maybe thats because we actually do need some? Or maybe its because some VA-containing foods have other advantages that more than outweigh their VA content?

Really then what is the logic behind doing a zero VA diet? Why can you not have almost as good results by just bringing your ordinary intake down by 80-90%? It takes very little effort to cut the majority of VA from your diet, in fact most people would probably do it gladly, but trying to cut everything does result in a very restrictive and unbalanced diet.

Grant Genereux has been doing this for 5+ years and still has extreme reactions to even trace amounts of substances that just resemble VA. I think its fair to guess that this hypersensitivity is not going to go away with time, and if you plan on ever eating any VA-containing foods again, its probably best to just work on reintroducing them as soon as you find yourself missing them.

 

[InChristAlone]

Thanks, didn't realise he'd only been on it for 6 months, its hard to judge after such short time in someone that old its true. Will be interesting to see if he can reverse his hypothyroidism with this diet as Vinero earlier suggested.

Actually it might be more closer to 9-10 months now, I keep thinking it isn't the end of May! But yeah hard to tell anything based on looks. But yes his neck shows some inflammation excess fat still.

 

[Tarmander]

Its clear just from looking at the traditional diets of people around the world that the need for VA is probably way overblown by people like WAPFers, but its also clear that there's no culture on the planet that actively goes out of their way to completely avoid VA-containing foods. Maybe thats because we actually do need some? Or maybe its because some VA-containing foods have other advantages that more than outweigh their VA content?

Really then what is the logic behind doing a zero VA diet? Why can you not have almost as good results by just bringing your ordinary intake down by 80-90%? It takes very little effort to cut the majority of VA from your diet, in fact most people would probably do it gladly, but trying to cut everything does result in a very restrictive and unbalanced diet.

Grant Genereux has been doing this for 5+ years and still has extreme reactions to even trace amounts of substances that just resemble VA. I think its fair to guess that this hypersensitivity is not going to go away with time, and if you plan on ever eating any VA-containing foods again, its probably best to just work on reintroducing them as soon as you find yourself missing them.

Yeah but Grant was slated to die from Kidney Disease. I mean it is a little impressive right?