What Makes For Masculine Forearms?

[Arrade]

Do you think there's a way or workaround to use AAS with almost zero relevant health effect but keeping significant gains? like microdosing or cycling + microdosing and using progesterone or something like that?
And ofcourse, it would be absurd to expect 5 kg of clean muscle in 1 month on it...I'm pointing at some kind of slight overclock on muscle metabolism, slightly accelerating gains and reducing catabolism. I read it could be stupid to microdose AAS. Then, it would only leave us with "Peating", trying to minimize catabolism

I'm also interested in Haidut's answer. For me any anabolic use would be an increase and muscle mass/athletic ability and increasing muscle myonuclei, upregulated androgen receptors, dwonregulated serotonin the permanent effects stay with you after use. It's the common belief low dose anabolics would suppress your natural production and thus not worth one's time.

 

[haidut]

Do you think there's a way or workaround to use AAS with almost zero relevant health effect but keeping significant gains? like microdosing or cycling + microdosing and using progesterone or something like that?
And ofcourse, it would be absurd to expect 5 kg of clean muscle in 1 month on it...I'm pointing at some kind of slight overclock on muscle metabolism, slightly accelerating gains and reducing catabolism. I read it could be stupid to microdose AAS. Then, it would only leave us with "Peating", trying to minimize catabolism

Yes, and actually that is exactly what rich people do in exotic clinics in the Carribean and even in the US. A common protocol that is better than plain AAS (ab)use but still fat from optimal, is to give the infamous "duchess" cocktail used by Russian athletes in the Winter Games in Sochi. The duches cocktail was a microdose mix of trenbolone, methenolone, and oxandrolone. It was dissolved in an alcoholic drink like vodka or cognac and given to athletes who were told to keep it in their mouths for 30sec and then swallow. It was apparently smuggles as already dissolved in regular looking vodka and cognac bottles and since some of those get confiscated and tested at the Olympic village, the concentration of these steroids must have been really low to avoid discovery. So, microdosing has been proven to work even in athletes who demand very high performance.
https://www.inverse.com/article/24985-mclaren-report-russian-doping
"...During the 2012 London games, the Russian Federation switched from its older doping program, which relied on drugs such as oral turinbol, to a shorter lasting “Duchess cocktail.” Three main steroids comprised the Duchess cocktail: oxandrolone, methenolone, and trenbolone.

This exact same cocktail is rumored to be administered to rich people in those clinics combined with micro-dosing of fluoxetine (Prozac, which greatly upregulates allopregnanolone synthesis) to avoid the aforementioned negative mental side effects. Now, the "duchess" cocktail was designed for maximum performance and assumed some level of toxic side effects would be tolerated. The first 2 of these steroids are known to be hepatotoxic. But there is no need to use them.
For a person looking to improve body composition with much less risk a doctor could legally prescribe a combination of T + progesterone, or DHT + progesterone in order to achieve the anticatabolic + anabolic effects, without liver toxicity or mental side effects. An even better approach would be to give preformed allopregnanolone or 5a-DHP and then any bioidentical anticatabolic steroid of choice (T, DHT) none of which have known hepatotoxicity. And adding some pregnenolone/DHEA may limit greatly the risk of suppression from using any steroid. In fact, Peat has suggested the pregnenolone/DHEA mix to several people who asked him what to do to limit risk of damage by AAS.
The OTC alternative to all of above would be a pregnenolone/progesterone/DHEA (anticatabolic) + 5a-DHP (mental health) + androsterone (androgenic). I already mentioned some of this in another thread.
Structural Requirements For Optimal Anticatabolic (Anabolic) Steroid

Given the bad rep AAS have acquired and the enforcement against their use, some bodybuilders have started to use glucocorticoid antagonists like RU486 and Ulipristal, and combining them with T. Forum user @gbolduev mentioned RU486 use by bodybuilders before. That would also work but I am not fond of RU486 as it has anti-androgenic and anti-progestin effects. Progesterone is also a glucocorticoid antagonist and has many other benefits that RU486 does not.

 

[TheBeard]

I was not advocating it, just pointing out the connection between opposing cortisol (or having low one ntaurally) and ripped, veiny arms which people here said were masculine.
As far as the bodyduilder reports, I take anything (good or bad) with a huge grain of salt. Their commonly reported doses for Trenbolone are in the 50mg-100mg range daily as an injection. This is just insane dose/behavior. The steroid probably gets blamed for the generally crazy behavior that group exhibits when it comes with injecting all sorts of things without any consideration over its structure and steroid effects. For comparison, the rodent studies consider HED of 0.15mg/kg (10mg-15mg daily for a human) a HIGH dose. Considering trenbolone has about the same affinity for the AR as DHT, these bodybuilder-doses would be akin to injecting 50mg-100mg DHT. The latter has been tried on animals and does not look pretty. At those doses these androgens suppress the synthesis of neurosteroids like allopregnanolone and this is probably what accounts for some of the crazy behavior.
Changes in brain testosterone and allopregnanolone biosynthesis elicit aggressive behavior
https://www.researchgate.net/public...ssion_induced_by_anabolic_androgenic_steroids

If it was not for the bodybuilding community and their insane pursuits, steroids would have probably been legal to this day...

If you want to know more about Tren check the latest articles on MesoRx (thinksteroids.com) by Chester Rockwell

 

[haidut]

If you want to know more about Tren check the latest articles on MesoRx (thinksteroids.com) by Chester Rockwell

You mean the one that has parts 1 through 4? Thanks, I looked at the 4 articles. Aside from his support of exogenous estrogen, IGF, and beta adrenergic agonists, it is a decent review. There are other (older) studies, which he may not have seen, showing that trenbolone actually decreases protein synthesis in muscle. However, its potent antiglucocorticoid effects virtually blocked muscle catabolism completely and the net result was heavily lean muscle gaining. Also, I don't buy his explanations that trenbolone reduces fat deposits due to increasing lipolysis. I think the glucocorticoid antagonism is once again the primary reason for this effect as other GR antagonists like RU486 or 11b-HSD1 inhibitors like emodin have the same leaning effects and they do not affect lipolysis. Fat synthesis and accumulation is driven primarily by cortisol and estrogen, so anything that opposes these two will likely go a long way towards improving body composition.

 

[TheBeard]

You mean the one that has parts 1 through 4? Thanks, I looked at the 4 articles. Aside from his support of exogenous estrogen, IGF, and beta adrenergic agonists, it is a decent review. There are other (older) studies, which he may not have seen, showing that trenbolone actually decreases protein synthesis in muscle. However, its potent antiglucocorticoid effects virtually blocked muscle catabolism completely and the net result was heavily lean muscle gaining. Also, I don't buy his explanations that trenbolone reduces fat deposits due to increasing lipolysis. I think the glucocorticoid antagonism is once again the primary reason for this effect as other GR antagonists like RU486 or 11b-HSD1 inhibitors like emodin have the same leaning effects and they do not affect lipolysis. Fat synthesis and accumulation is driven primarily by cortisol and estrogen, so anything that opposes these two will likely go a long way towards improving body composition.

Exactly!

The general conclusion I made for myself after reading this article is that Tren is wrongfully praised as the best muscle building agent, that it comes with more sides than other AAS that are just as good at building muscles, and that most of its "muscle-building" properties are derived from its estrogenic and progesterogenic properties.

 

[Arrade]

Exactly!

The general conclusion I made for myself after reading this article is that Tren is wrongfully praised as the best muscle building agent, that it comes with more sides than other AAS that are just as good at building muscles, and that most of its "muscle-building" properties are derived from its estrogenic and progesterogenic properties.

Welcome to the forum

 

[TheBeard]

Welcome to the forum

Thank you Arrade!

 

[Graeme]

High rep wrist curls 50 reps 3 x a week add in exercise such as wringing out a wet towel, push ups both sides of hands if possible and extensor work ie opening and closing the hand against resistance

 

[TheBeard]

High rep wrist curls 50 reps 3 x a week add in exercise such as wringing out a wet towel, push ups both sides of hands if possible and extensor work ie opening and closing the hand against resistance

As many have said, I don’t think a gym kind of workout is the recipe.
Most « bodybuilders » and « gym rats » have sissy / soyboy forearms. Even though they are developped and muscular, they are by no means masculine. Most of them wax them too, what a society we live in...

Mechanics, constructions workers, people who have lived by the sea all their lives and done manual work, coupled with optimal hormone production trully have those male forearms.

I don’t mean to get into any sociology diggression of some sort, but you rarely see masculine people at the gym. Yes some of them have developed their body, but by no mean do they look masculine.

And most of the masculine people I see don’t have gym physiques.

I think lacking a masculine look pushes a lot of people to hit the gym.

Not that it’s bad, it’s great exercise don’t get me wrong, just an observation.

 

[Graeme]

As many have said, I don’t think a gym kind of workout is the recipe.
Most « bodybuilders » and « gym rats » have sissy / soyboy forearms. Even though they are developped and muscular, they are by no means masculine. Most of them wax them too, what a society we live in...

Mechanics, constructions workers, people who have lived by the sea all their lives and done manual work, coupled with optimal hormone production trully have those male forearms.

I don’t mean to get into any sociology diggression of some sort, but you rarely see masculine people at the gym. Yes some of them have developed their body, but by no mean do they look masculine.

And most of the masculine people I see don’t have gym physiques.

I think lacking a masculine look pushes a lot of people to hit the gym.

Not that it’s bad, it’s great exercise don’t get me wrong, just an observation.

Not sure what gyms you go to.,but you obviously not seen anyone that has doesn't 3 to 5 years working on a strength routine, if Mel Gibson is your bench mark wow lol, his forearms probably look pretty stacked due to him having genetics that give him short arms

 

[Luckytype]

As many have said, I don’t think a gym kind of workout is the recipe.
Most « bodybuilders » and « gym rats » have sissy / soyboy forearms. Even though they are developped and muscular, they are by no means masculine. Most of them wax them too, what a society we live in...

Mechanics, constructions workers, people who have lived by the sea all their lives and done manual work, coupled with optimal hormone production trully have those male forearms.

I don’t mean to get into any sociology diggression of some sort, but you rarely see masculine people at the gym. Yes some of them have developed their body, but by no mean do they look masculine.

And most of the masculine people I see don’t have gym physiques.

I think lacking a masculine look pushes a lot of people to hit the gym.

Not that it’s bad, it’s great exercise don’t get me wrong, just an observation.

Ive always seen a mix at the gym. Ive only really seen baseball players that groom forearm hair lol.

Ive also spent years and years in technical and mechanical industries and to say that the men ive worked along side were masculine and even "alpha" (since i think thats where this is going) is a huge understatement. They tend to be unable to grab social cue, are awkward especially around a female and really only prefer to boast about their corvette, harley or the sports team theyve religiously followed vicariously for their whole life. Plenty of them dont have hypertrophic forearm developement despite having strength.

 

[Sobieski]

Ive always seen a mix at the gym. Ive only really seen baseball players that groom forearm hair lol.

Ive also spent years and years in technical and mechanical industries and to say that the men ive worked along side were masculine and even "alpha" (since i think thats where this is going) is a huge understatement. They tend to be unable to grab social cue, are awkward especially around a female and really only prefer to boast about their corvette, harley or the sports team theyve religiously followed vicariously for their whole life. Plenty of them dont have hypertrophic forearm developement despite having strength.

Have you ever encountered those rare guys that are insanely strong despite having never stepped foot in a gym?

 

[Hans]

Ive always seen a mix at the gym. Ive only really seen baseball players that groom forearm hair lol.

Ive also spent years and years in technical and mechanical industries and to say that the men ive worked along side were masculine and even "alpha" (since i think thats where this is going) is a huge understatement. They tend to be unable to grab social cue, are awkward especially around a female and really only prefer to boast about their corvette, harley or the sports team theyve religiously followed vicariously for their whole life. Plenty of them dont have hypertrophic forearm developement despite having strength.

Well said. I also worked with a mechanic a few years back and he had a strong grip and everything, but didn't have big forearms.

The most common denominator of men who have big forearms, and got them naturally, are men who work with heavy stuff and eat lots of protein.

 

[Luckytype]

Have you ever encountered those rare guys that are insanely strong despite having never stepped foot in a gym?

Yea definitely. Always the type of guys that worked on the farms I lived on as a kid. The easy way to explain it is:

Contractile power is heavily a neural process. Psychology can easily affect this.

Hypertrophic response is likely a combination response to tension and length but also local metabolisms.

That inhibitory mechanisms, those that prevent strong muscular contraction in the untrained body are there until the connective tissues and metabolic response begin to change tissue. As training/use happens, these mechanisms are DISinhibited and turned off so the muscle can contract harder

The first fiveish weeks of a new person in the gym sees this as a major contributor to strength and endurance gains. Usually arouns that time they think they are just packing on pounds of muscle, which many times isnt the case.

 

[Sobieski]

Yea definitely. Always the type of guys that worked on the farms I lived on as a kid. The easy way to explain it is:

Contractile power is heavily a neural process. Psychology can easily affect this.

Hypertrophic response is likely a combination response to tension and length but also local metabolisms.

That inhibitory mechanisms, those that prevent strong muscular contraction in the untrained body are there until the connective tissues and metabolic response begin to change tissue. As training/use happens, these mechanisms are DISinhibited and turned off so the muscle can contract harder

The first fiveish weeks of a new person in the gym sees this as a major contributor to strength and endurance gains. Usually arouns that time they think they are just packing on pounds of muscle, which many times isnt the case.

I've worked in construction most of my working life and there are some very very strong guys I've met out there that no one would suspect who in the real world completely put many gym bros to shame. At my strongest I deadlifted 440lbs/200kg for 8 reps (natural) and there were some men I've worked with who I don't doubt would have been hitting those sorts of numbers in a very short time.

 

[Arrade]

I've worked in construction most of my working life and there are some very very strong guys I've met out there that no one would suspect who in the real world completely put many gym bros to shame. At my strongest I deadlifted 440lbs/200kg for 8 reps (natural) and there were some men I've worked with who I don't doubt would have been hitting those sorts of numbers in a very short time.

Hoes love construction workers

 

[Peater]

My father was a bricklayer years ago and has impressive forearms. Before that he was a lorry driver unloading barrels and crates. We used to do motocross which gets a good arm pump going. He still has impressive forearms at 60 and has never set foot in a gym although he loves white water rafting these days

 

[schultz]

CoC grippers

I was looking at their site and it says that most people who train (I guess weighlift?) cannot close the #1 gripper. I sort of find this hard to believe... but who knows? Grip strength has been declining for years in the population. There is also a lot of research on grip strength and health in general, which is fascinating.

I was at my brothers place a few months ago and had a chance to try the CoC grippers. The #1 was not that hard, so if it's true that most people who "train" can't close it then people must be really weak and/or when they say "train" they mean running on the treadmill at the gym? (I've never been to a gym so I don't know what people do there...)

I'm curious if anybody on the forum has any CoC grippers and if so what numbers can you close? I think I am going to start training with them for fun.

 

[ShotTrue]

A lot of people have good forearms while not weight training. I'm not sure unless you specifically isolate those muscles you'll see a lot of action with them.
I've never had great grip, I usually hold onto things loosely. If I take up rock climbing that will obviously change

Something else, I feel like if I'm in a catabolic state my body tears down my calf and forearm muscles first? Those seem to thin out or lose mass

 

[Waynish]

I was looking at their site and it says that most people who train (I guess weighlift?) cannot close the #1 gripper. I sort of find this hard to believe... but who knows? Grip strength has been declining for years in the population. There is also a lot of research on grip strength and health in general, which is fascinating.

I was at my brothers place a few months ago and had a chance to try the CoC grippers. The #1 was not that hard, so if it's true that most people who "train" can't close it then people must be really weak and/or when they say "train" they mean running on the treadmill at the gym? (I've never been to a gym so I don't know what people do there...)

I'm curious if anybody on the forum has any CoC grippers and if so what numbers can you close? I think I am going to start training with them for fun.

I used to. I got up to a #2... The curve is steep unless you're very talented in the forearm strength domain. Hundreds of guys with arms as big as your torso who will never close a #4 - or even #3. In terms of trainers not being able to close a #1... And ya, "trainers" must be a very loose definition if "most" cannot close a #1.