What Makes For Masculine Forearms?

[Constatine]

It's high androgenic expression in the forearms. Easiest and most effective way to increase androgenic expression is to eat an excess of calories and work out via short bursts of high intensity exercise. Sun exposure is also important. Any other method via supplements or what not will likely only have a mild effect.

 

[Sobieski]

Do a lot of grip work. It will increase forearm and hand size. Thick bars, CoC grippers, plate pinching will hit all the areas and over time will give you big forearms and hand musculature. Might even increase the size of your wrists, though I imagine some form of pressing work may be required for this.

A very strong, versatile grip is often the separating factor between 'gym' and 'real world' strength.

 

[YourUniverse]

I think we become our habits along the infinity asymptote, and I also think form follows function.

So, I would think if a person has a regular habit of using her or his hands, the form of the body would yield to meet the functional demands.

 

[Hans]

Is vascularity a good thing? I remember reading on one of Peat books bulging veins isn't such a good symptom

Excessive vascularity such as seen with older people or with unhealthier people (drug abusers etc.) is definitely not healthy. This is usually a sign of chronic high or low blood pressure, plus elevated estrogen, cortisol and prolactin.
My mother was (because she isn't alive anymore) and my grandmother is very vascular in her hands, forearms and feet. She is very lean but is of no means very healthy, even though she is in her own opinion. Still she has the typical symptoms of very high estrogen, cortisol and serotonin and tons of nutritional deficiencies.

Estrogen increases angiogeneses, vascular leakage, NO, vasodilation and hypotension, venous thrombosis, etc... Estrogen also increases more a2-adrenoreceptor activation, compared to a1, resulting in less norepinephrine and thus, more vasodilation.
Having very high DHT (a1-adrenoreceptor activation) and very low estrogen (less a2 activation) could cause more vasoconstriction, but this will differ from person to person.
Prolactin increases vascular endothelial growth factor, vasodilation, eNOS, vascular inflammation, etc...
DHT increases angiogenesis, VEGF, vasodilation/relaxation, anti-inflammatory, etc...
Testosterone increases β1-adrenoceptor mRNA levels and VEGF, reduces vascular inflammation, is atheroprotective, etc...
Cortisol inhibits angiogenesis and vascular permeability, as well as causes hypertension. Whereas aldosterone increases vascular permeability and hypertension.

But basically, estrogen, cortisol, aldosterone and prolactin are bad, and androgens are good. So if someone is vascular because of the bad hormones, that's unhealthy, but if someone is vascular because of androgens, I can't think that it's bad, because even healthy men in the earlier centuries had vascular and masculine forearms.

Even though I personally like Mel Gibson as an actor, he was a drug user and alcoholic at a stage in his life, so that might have played a major role in his vascularity, as well as masculinity. It was also after this time that he started using roids and did some weight training. Whereas someone like Sylvester Stallone used a lot of hard gear and that played a major role in his prominent masculine and vascular arms and body of course.

But when it comes down to vascularity, being lean, muscular, having high androgens and no water retention will make them pop.

 

[Hans]

I have seen many people that work with their forearms, such as construction workers, builders, farmers, etc., but if they people don't work with heavy stuff and eat enough protein, they only have developed, but rather small forearms, also depending on their leanness. I also have a client who does gymnastics, rings mostly, and he is very ripped, but doesn't have overly muscular or vascular arms. Until he uses L-histidine, then his veins become very prominent and he even looks more masculine.

 

[pimpnamedraypeat]

Where do you get that idea from?

Are you saying Mel Gibson naturally produced high growth hormone levels in his youth?
I doubt it, he’d be taller?

Are you saying taking HGH in his later years made him grow arms like that? I doubt it he already had them in Lethal Weapon in his 30s.

And lots of bodybuilders taking ungodly amounts of HGH still have sissy forearms after decades

 

[Mountain]

that look like they've been farming all their life.

 

[Highserotonin90]

False grip with rings...guaranted big

 

[Arrade]

False grip with rings...guaranted big

Can you expand on this?

 

[Highserotonin90]

Exercise with False grip (write on google) with rings gymanstic

Tip: An Unconventional Way to Build Forearms | T Nation

 

[haidut]

@haidut

Any ideas?

Thanks!

The muscularity is due to androgens and the veiny, ripped look is due to low subcutaneous fat. AAS like Trenbolone (which remove subcutaneous fat quite easily) are notorious for giving that ripped look. They pump breeding bulls full of Trenbolone before a contest/competition because it makes them so defined and veiny you could literally see the muscle under the skin (see attached pics). Given that Trenbolone is the most powerful (steroidal) anti-glucocorticoid known, I guess cortisol is also involved in effeminate arms. It makes sense since cortisol is a potent anti-androgen at the receptor level but unlike other antiandrogens it also lowers androgen levels. Can't get much worse for male health/looks than cortisol.

 

[sladerunner69]

Garbage forearm genetics crew checking in.

Great strength has always been there, thank goodness(farm raised, no wraps at the gym).
The only thing that grew my actual forearm size was cable reverse curls with exaggerated wrist flexion through the eccentric phase with a stretch under tension at the bottom and exaggerated wrist extension at the top of the concentric phase. Another exercise mod I had to figure out for myself @sladerunner69

Well I wouldn't use cable to target my forearms, personally. They function primarily as stabilizer muscles, so targeting them directly will tend to only achieve marginal results. I have seen my forearms get bigger and harder from deadlifts, shrugs, chin ups, rows, etc. Oh, and reverse curls as well, but with a barbell. If you want to do iso movements just take a dumbbell, rest your rest on a bench or your leg, and do little forearm curls for high reps, or be the guy who actually used the cables to sculpt his forearm muscles into being big, meaty, and functionless.

Agreed, that’s usually what the guys with Mel Gibson’s style arms have in common.

Any pics of your forearms?

Of course I have an entire album dedicated to memories of my forearms, though I am not sure it would be a great idea to share considering what happened last time I shared pics. So many posters becoming so fraught with jealousy.

 

[Hans]

That makes sense, and I definitely agree that cortisol is involved in effeminate arms. However, it's probably not always the biggest factor, as some people such as my grandma is pretty catabolic, with high cortisol but she's very veiny (not as in varicose veins).
Some elite soccer players also don't look masculine or veiny, while others have more prominent muscle and veins. Maybe different kinds of steroid/drug use?

 

[Arrade]

Well I wouldn't use cable to target my forearms, personally. They function primarily as stabilizer muscles, so targeting them directly will tend to only achieve marginal results. I have seen my forearms get bigger and harder from deadlifts, shrugs, chin ups, rows, etc. Oh, and reverse curls as well, but with a barbell. If you want to do iso movements just take a dumbbell, rest your rest on a bench or your leg, and do little forearm curls for high reps, or be the guy who actually used the cables to sculpt his forearm muscles into being big, meaty, and functionless.


Of course I have an entire album dedicated to memories of my forearms, though I am not sure it would be a great idea to share considering what happened last time I shared pics. So many posters becoming so fraught with jealousy.

My forearms actually only grow with targeted use. Compound lifts don’t affect my forearms

 

[Arrade]

I think increasing calorie helps grow forearms in calves. Even if I isolate them I rarely notice a size difference until I go up in body weight. You’ll notice fat people/ previously fat people have huge calves

 

[Arrade]

The muscularity is due to androgens and the veiny, ripped look is due to low subcutaneous fat. AAS like Trenbolone (which remove subcutaneous fat quite easily) are notorious for giving that ripped look. They pump breeding bulls full of Trenbolone before a contest/competition because it makes them so defined and veiny you could literally see the muscle under the skin (see attached pics). Given that Trenbolone is the most powerful (steroidal) anti-glucocorticoid known, I guess cortisol is also involved in effeminate arms. It makes sense since cortisol is a potent anti-androgen at the receptor level but unlike other antiandrogens it also lowers androgen levels. Can't get much worse for male health/looks than cortisol.


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You should see what Bodybuilders talk about on post online about Tren. Apparently crazy mental sides, like leaving your wife and being attracted to Trannies. Or just being crazy.
However it does seem to be the most effective steroid, being that it causes huge strength increase while shredding body fat. To me it looks like a lot of Olympic Lifters use tren, Clarence Kennedy seems like one.

 

[haidut]

You should see what Bodybuilders y’all about on post online about Tren. Apparently crazy mental sides, like leaving your wife and being attracted to Trannies. Or just being crazy.
However it does seem to be the most effective steroid, being that it causes huge strength increase while shredding body fat. To me it looks like a lot of Olympic Lifters use tren, Clarence Kennedy seems like one.

I was not advocating it, just pointing out the connection between opposing cortisol (or having low one ntaurally) and ripped, veiny arms which people here said were masculine.
As far as the bodyduilder reports, I take anything (good or bad) with a huge grain of salt. Their commonly reported doses for Trenbolone are in the 50mg-100mg range daily as an injection. This is just insane dose/behavior. The steroid probably gets blamed for the generally crazy behavior that group exhibits when it comes with injecting all sorts of things without any consideration over its structure and steroid effects. For comparison, the rodent studies consider HED of 0.15mg/kg (10mg-15mg daily for a human) a HIGH dose. Considering trenbolone has about the same affinity for the AR as DHT, these bodybuilder-doses would be akin to injecting 50mg-100mg DHT. The latter has been tried on animals and does not look pretty. At those doses these androgens suppress the synthesis of neurosteroids like allopregnanolone and this is probably what accounts for some of the crazy behavior.
Changes in brain testosterone and allopregnanolone biosynthesis elicit aggressive behavior
https://www.researchgate.net/public...ssion_induced_by_anabolic_androgenic_steroids

If it was not for the bodybuilding community and their insane pursuits, steroids would have probably been legal to this day...

 

[Arrade]

I was not advocating it, just pointing out the connection between opposing cortisol (or having low one ntaurally) and ripped, veiny arms which people here said were masculine.
As far as the bodyduilder reports, I take anything (good or bad) with a huge grain of salt. Their commonly reported doses for Trenbolone are in the 50mg-100mg range daily as an injection. This is just insane dose/behavior. The steroid probably gets blamed for the generally crazy behavior that group exhibits when it comes with injecting all sorts of things without any consideration over its structure and steroid effects. For comparison, the rodent studies consider HED of 0.15mg/kg (10mg-15mg daily for a human) a HIGH dose. Considering trenbolone has about the same affinity for the AR as DHT, these bodybuilder-doses would be akin to injecting 50mg-100mg DHT. The latter has been tried on animals and does not look pretty. At those doses these androgens suppress the synthesis of neurosteroids like allopregnanolone and this is probably what accounts for some of the crazy behavior.
Changes in brain testosterone and allopregnanolone biosynthesis elicit aggressive behavior
https://www.researchgate.net/public...ssion_induced_by_anabolic_androgenic_steroids

If it was not for the bodybuilding community and their insane pursuits, steroids would have probably been legal to this day...

So would proviron/anavar/winstrol taken at doses of 75 mg daily have the same effect? Sorry, I wasn't trying to insinuate you supported its use.

 

[haidut]

So would proviron/anavar/winstrol taken at doses of 75 mg daily have the same effect? Sorry, I wasn't trying to insinuate you supported its use.

Most likely yes. The studies I have seen used nandrolone, oxandrolone, Drostanolone, Danazol, methenolone, etc and they all caused disturbance in neurosteroid synthesis (low allopregnanolone). The good news was that in all studies that tried it, adding just a little progesterone (HED 0.1mg/kg - 0.2mg/kg) completely reversed/prevented that effect. Progesterone is a precursor to allopregnanolone and 5a-DHP may work even better since progesterone's conversion into allopregnanolone relies on 5-AR, which AAS also tend to suppress.
Also, pretty much all AAS suppress endogenous androgen synthesis and thus DHT. Both DHT and its metabolite androsterone are also neurosteroids and can possibly fulfill some of the roles of allopregnanolone in the brain. So, if progesterone is not desirable for a male then adding a little androsterone would be a legal way to offset some of the negative effects of AAS (ab)use.

 

[vulture]

Most likely yes. The studies I have seen used nandrolone, oxandrolone, Drostanolone, Danazol, methenolone, etc and they all caused disturbance in neurosteroid synthesis (low allopregnanolone). The good news was that in all studies that tried it, adding just a little progesterone (HED 1mg/kg - 2mg/kg) completely reversed/prevented that effect.
Also, pretty much all AAS suppress endogenous androgen synthesis and thus DHT. Both DHT and its metabolite androsterone are also neurosteroids and can possibly fulfill some of the roles of allopregnanolone in the brain. So, if progesterone is not desirable for a male then adding a little androsterone would be a legal way to offset some of the negative effects of AAS (ab)use.

Do you think there's a way or workaround to use AAS with almost zero relevant health effect but keeping significant gains? like microdosing or cycling + microdosing and using progesterone or something like that?
And ofcourse, it would be absurd to expect 5 kg of clean muscle in 1 month on it...I'm pointing at some kind of slight overclock on muscle metabolism, slightly accelerating gains and reducing catabolism. I read it could be stupid to microdose AAS. Then, it would only leave us with "Peating", trying to minimize catabolism