Prescribed Amitriptyline by Post COVID Clinic, thoughts?

[nejdev]

Hey folks,

Update here regarding long haul COVID. Just got back from the "post COVID clinic" here in Scandinavia and wanted to share the experience.

The doctor asked a bunch of questions about my health history and my symptoms since the onset of this "long COVID" since earlier this year in March. After discussing with her (you can check my post history if you're curious, but what I'm dealing with is similar to ME/CFS more or less) she said that she thinks many things are causing long COVID but she said one of the main issues, she believes, is that the microglial cells of the body have been damaged/destroyed and so the nerves aren't being nourished with sugars as usual, causing sympathetic/parasympathetic nervous system malfunction and hence the crushing fatigue, weird pains in the body, etc.

She prescribed a bunch of blood tests, heart ultrasound to rule out other issues, physiotherapy and a psychologist. Then, she gave me a prescription for Amitriptyline which is an antidepressant.

I'm very leary of taking any pharmaceuticals so I wanted to get the forums thoughts on Amitriptyline. Don't know much about it, never taken antidepressants but apparently this is supposed to help me sleep better, relieve nerve pain and increase mood.

Any insight would be appreciated. Thank y'all.

 

[Rinse & rePeat]

Hey folks,

Update here regarding long haul COVID. Just got back from the "post COVID clinic" here in Scandinavia and wanted to share the experience.

The doctor asked a bunch of questions about my health history and my symptoms since the onset of this "long COVID" since earlier this year in March. After discussing with her (you can check my post history if you're curious, but what I'm dealing with is similar to ME/CFS more or less) she said that she thinks many things are causing long COVID but she said one of the main issues, she believes, is that the microglial cells of the body have been damaged/destroyed and so the nerves aren't being nourished with sugars as usual, causing sympathetic/parasympathetic nervous system malfunction and hence the crushing fatigue, weird pains in the body, etc.

She prescribed a bunch of blood tests, heart ultrasound to rule out other issues, physiotherapy and a psychologist. Then, she gave me a prescription for Amitriptyline which is an antidepressant.

I'm very leary of taking any pharmaceuticals so I wanted to get the forums thoughts on Amitriptyline. Don't know much about it, never taken antidepressants but apparently this is supposed to help me sleep better, relieve nerve pain and increase mood.

Any insight would be appreciated. Thank y'all.

I took it in my early 30's, for panic attacks, for about 6 months and it did work well for sleep. It cured my panicky attacks, but what I didn't like about it is that it squelched the happy feelings as well as the sad ones. It worked pretty quickly on my brother's migraine too. I had a hard time, for a long time, finding my own way of sleeping getting off of them. Knowing what I know now I wouldn't take it again, not knowing what the repercussions are from it. Progest-E gives the same effects and without the health risks.

 

[mostlylurking]

The doctor asked a bunch of questions about my health history and my symptoms since the onset of this "long COVID" since earlier this year in March. After discussing with her (you can check my post history if you're curious, but what I'm dealing with is similar to ME/CFS more or less) she said that she thinks many things are causing long COVID but she said one of the main issues, she believes, is that the microglial cells of the body have been damaged/destroyed and so the nerves aren't being nourished with sugars as usual, causing sympathetic/parasympathetic nervous system malfunction and hence the crushing fatigue, weird pains in the body, etc.

Sure sounds like a thiamine deficiency/functional blockage to me. Doing a search for "glial cells thiamin thiamine" yield quite a few results that you may find of interest. ("Thiamin thiamine": there are two accepted spellings).

Without thiamine, the mitochondria cannot convert sugars into energy.

Thiamine is required for the sympathetic/parasympathetic nervous system to function.

An Open Letter Regarding Thiamine and COVID - Hormones Matter

A diet high in “empty” calories, but low in micronutrients, predisposes one to the disease, because the available thiamine required to process the fuel is overwhelmed by the amount of fuel being supplied.

www.hormonesmatter.com

Understanding Thiamine in the Context of Mitochondria​

"Each of the trillions of cells that make up the body contain mitochondria – self-contained electrochemical machines which take in fuel and oxygen supplied by the blood and use them to generate an electric charge – effectively a battery. This charge is used to supply energy in a chemical form usable by the cell to allow it to function. The other end-products are water and carbon dioxide – this is respiration at the cellular level. The process involves a series of chemical reactions, each reaction requiring the presence of an enzyme specific to that reaction, provided by the mitochondrion. Each enzyme also requires one or more cofactors to be present for the associated reaction to proceed efficiently. These enzyme cofactors are supplied via the blood and are none other than the vitamins and minerals we are all familiar with, particularly the B vitamins – thiamine, riboflavin, niacin, folic acid, B12 and others, and minerals like magnesium, zinc, copper, manganese and iron. If anything interferes with this chemical “symphony”, such as a deficiency of one or more of these cofactors, energy production will be impaired and the cell will not be able to function as it should.

Thiamine has been found to have a particularly important role to play. It acts as a cofactor in five of these enzyme moderated reactions, one of which occurs right at the beginning of the whole process, converting the supplied fuel (glucose) into a form usable in subsequent steps. In one of Dr. Lonsdale’s analogies, thiamine is like the spark plugs in an internal combustion engine (the mitochondrion), igniting the fuel/air mixture, turning the released energy into, in this case, mechanical rather than chemical energy, which is used to propel the car (the cell) forward. If the spark plugs are not working properly (if thiamine is deficient), the car will run poorly, if at all.

It is not hard to see the implications of this. At the level of a human being, thiamine deficiency results in beriberi (meaning “weakness”, or “I can’t”). The cells of the body are unable to provide the energy the body needs to function. If the deficiency is not corrected death may follow."

"what I'm dealing with is similar to ME/CFS more or less"

Thiamine, Fibromyalgia, and Chronic Pain - Hormones Matter

Research into fibromyalgia demonstrats mitochondrial dysfunction in muscle tissue, skin and white blood cells. Thiamine can correct this.

www.hormonesmatter.com

I lived with CFS for many years. I no longer suffer from this misery. I take high dose thiamine hcl, daily.

 

[Peatness]

Help with depression-amitriptyline

I've suffered from depression for a very long time. I still trying to figure out an answer. I've tried cyproheptadine (periactin) after reading that it can lower serotonin and can be effective in treating depression. However, I haven't really noticed any improvement. My doctor has...

raypeatforum.com

 

[Birdie]

I think the "increased appetite" aspect of it would be a problem for some people. I don't think it would be a problem for Ray though.

From Pina's link:

Ray:
I think it's safe. Compare the structure with cyproheptadine. Have you tried niacinamide, pregnenolone, and thyroid?

 

['peataphysique]

@Birdie

Thanks Birdie, still, I asked Ray about the safety of long term use (>3 years) of amitriptyline on July of this year, as there seemed to be no info about anyone asking this before online, and this was his response:

Amitriptyline is an important antiinflammatory agent that helps to increase your metabolic rate by lowering serotonin’s effects.

Pharmakopsychiatr Neuropsychopharmakol. 1979 May;12(3):281-5.doi: 10.1055/s-0028-1094622.
Central antiserotonin action of amitriptyline
J Maj, A Lewandowska, A Rawtów
Amitriptyline (AMI) was studied in rats snd mice in order to find out whether it had a central antiserotonin activity, previously demonstrated for doxepin - a compound chemically related to AMI. It was observed that AMI at low doses antagonized the head twitch response to L-5-hydroxytryptophan or 5-methoxytryptamine, as well as tryptamine-induced convulsions. In the hind limb flexor reflex preparation of the spinal rat AMI acted as a serotonin antagonist: when administered alone, it did not change the flexor reflex but prevented its stimulation induced by serotoninmimetics (LSD, quipazine, fenfluramine) not affecting that one evoked by noradrenalinemimetics (clinidine). At higher doses, AMI revealed a noradrenolytic activity. The results indicate that AMI, similarly as doxepin, has a central antiserotonin activity.

 

[Atonewithme]

I

Hey folks,

Update here regarding long haul COVID. Just got back from the "post COVID clinic" here in Scandinavia and wanted to share the experience.

The doctor asked a bunch of questions about my health history and my symptoms since the onset of this "long COVID" since earlier this year in March. After discussing with her (you can check my post history if you're curious, but what I'm dealing with is similar to ME/CFS more or less) she said that she thinks many things are causing long COVID but she said one of the main issues, she believes, is that the microglial cells of the body have been damaged/destroyed and so the nerves aren't being nourished with sugars as usual, causing sympathetic/parasympathetic nervous system malfunction and hence the crushing fatigue, weird pains in the body, etc.

She prescribed a bunch of blood tests, heart ultrasound to rule out other issues, physiotherapy and a psychologist. Then, she gave me a prescription for Amitriptyline which is an antidepressant.

I'm very leary of taking any pharmaceuticals so I wanted to get the forums thoughts on Amitriptyline. Don't know much about it, never taken antidepressants but apparently this is supposed to help me sleep better, relieve nerve pain and increase mood.

Any insight would be appreciated. Thank y'all.

I took it for nerve pain/sleep for a few weeks. I didn’t like the side effects of lethargy and dampened emotions. It did nothing for pain or sleep. Fluvoxitine is supposedly better for long haul and on the IRecover protocol from the FLCCC in the states. I know people taking it who could not get ivermectin and they said their inflammation and symptoms are reduced.

 

[Atonewithme]

I

I took it for nerve pain/sleep for a few weeks. I didn’t like the side effects of lethargy and dampened emotions. It did nothing for pain or sleep. Fluvoxitine is supposedly better for long haul and on the IRecover protocol from the FLCCC in the states. I know people taking it who could not get ivermectin and they said their inflammation and symptoms are reduced.

https://covid19criticalcare.com/wp-content/uploads/2021/06/FLCCC-Alliance-I-RECOVER-Management-Protocol-for-Long-Haul-COVID-19-Syndrome.pdf

 

[Peatness]

Dr Peat is not always consistent with his answers. He has previously said amitriptyline is linked to fibrosis.

Dr. Peat: "Although the structure suggests that it might be safer, fibrosis has been associated with both of them, and I think it’s best to concentrate on optimizing the metabolism, with thyroid, pregnenolone, progesterone, etc."

Mirtazapine Increases T4-T3 Conversion, Possible Antidepressant Mechanism

 

['peataphysique]

Dr Peat is not always consistent with his answers. He has previously said amitriptyline is linked to fibrosis.

Dr. Peat: "Although the structure suggests that it might be safer, fibrosis has been associated with both of them, and I think it’s best to concentrate on optimizing the metabolism, with thyroid, pregnenolone, progesterone, etc."

Mirtazapine Increases T4-T3 Conversion, Possible Antidepressant Mechanism

He is consistent, he just takes into account the circumstances the person asking the question is dealing with, he does a cost/benefit analysis and then responds.

Q: I hope this finds you well. I'm wondering whether you believe it's physiologically possible for the bulk of physical health problems to come from mental stress? Too big a workload, too big a sense of obligation, not enough socialising etc.

Even if one consumed adequate protein, sugar, essential nutrients, could mental loads still impair digestion and burden the metabolism?

Thanks for your time.

A: Yes, stresses of that sort can kill, disrupting various systems.

When the present balance of stuff, toxicants, euphoriants, etc., is good, you can think and feel what you want to about things." —Ray Peat

 

[Peatness]

I stand by my statement. Something is safe, and the same thing being linked to fibrosis is inconsistent regardless of context

 

['peataphysique]

I stand by my statement. Something is safe, and the same thing being linked to fibrosis is inconsistent regardless of context

Well, that is merely an opinion and not a fact.

 

[Perry Staltic]

Just say no to antidepressents. Doctors use those to cover and distract from their own incompetence.

 

[Perry Staltic]

Amitriptyline is serotonergic, i.e., potential to cause serotonin syndrome

 

[Peatness]

Amitriptyline is serotonergic, i.e., potential to cause serotonin syndrome

I agree serotonin causes fibrosis. Amitriptyline is dangerous.

 

[Perry Staltic]

I agree serotonin causes fibrosis. Amitriptyline is dangerous.

Amitriptyline binds to 5HT2B, It's probably a 5HT2B agonist like SSRIs/SNRIs are. 5HT2B promotes fibrosis.

 

[Peatness]

Amitriptyline binds to 5HT2B, It's probably a 5HT2B agonist like SSRIs/SNRIs are. 5HT2B promotes fibrosis.

Do you know if this can be reversed once a person discontinues amitriptyline or is that effect permanent?

 

[Perry Staltic]

Do you know if this can be reversed once a person discontinues amitriptyline or is that effect permanent?

Don't know.

This is concerning. SSRI overdoses can cause serotonin syndrome, but Amitriptyline overdoses can cause death

Amitriptyline overdoses are highly lethal unlike SSRIs

(PDF) Amitriptyline and Depressions

PDF | On Jan 1, 2020, Mellar P. Davis published Amitriptyline and Depressions | Find, read and cite all the research you need on ResearchGate

www.researchgate.net

 

['peataphysique]

Amitriptyline is serotonergic, i.e., potential to cause serotonin syndrome

You conveniently forgot to mention that amitriptyline only causes serotonin syndrome in LD50 doses.

Just say no to antidepressents. Doctors use those to cover and distract from their own incompetence.

Just say no to ignorance, you have a grudge against doctors and certain psych meds and this doesn't let you think clearly, stop scaremongering people because you clearly are devoid of most basic competences in psychopharmacology.

 

['peataphysique]

Don't know.

This is concerning. SSRI overdoses can cause serotonin syndrome, but Amitriptyline overdoses can cause death

(PDF) Amitriptyline and Depressions

PDF | On Jan 1, 2020, Mellar P. Davis published Amitriptyline and Depressions | Find, read and cite all the research you need on ResearchGate

www.researchgate.net

So do aspirin overdoses:

Two cases of oral aspirin overdose - PubMed

A 30-year-old woman and a 27-year-old man were found in a parked car after the man had telephoned his father to tell him of their suicide attempt. In spite of emergent hospitalization and intensive care, the woman died. Due to the possibility of his assisting her suicide, medicolegal autopsy and...

pubmed.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov

What is your point?