Poll About Ayahuasca

[Makrosky]

Guys, I'm really curious about what are the numbers for this subject on the forum.


Feel free to add your comments along with the vote.

 

[Westside PUFAs]

We trip on DMT every time we dream. It seems that the 15 minute DMT smoke hit would be better than drinking the "tea," poisoning yourself and vomiting for hours and trip for much longer like weirdos who pay losers in the jungles of South America for that "spiritual" experience.

 

[Makrosky]

We trip on DMT every time we dream. It seems that the 15 minute DMT smoke hit would be better than drinking the "tea," poisoning yourself and vomiting for hours and trip for much longer like weirdos who pay losers in the jungles of South America for that "spiritual" experience.

West, I think you are not really very well informed about what Ayahuasca is, what the vomiting is (I never vomited taking it btw) and I didn't go to South America for it. Lots of missconceptions I'm afraid.

 

[ddjd]

I think it can be very helpful but I personally went about it the wrong way when I did it.

Not going to get into details but I won't try again. If you do do it, take it incredibly seriously, prepare carefully and plan carefully, research as much as possible

 

[Prosper]

We trip on DMT every time we dream.

Then where are the machine elves McKenna talked about

 

[Waynish]

We trip on DMT every time we dream. It seems that the 15 minute DMT smoke hit would be better than drinking the "tea," poisoning yourself and vomiting for hours and trip for much longer like weirdos who pay losers in the jungles of South America for that "spiritual" experience.

I don't believe this dream stuff has adequately been substantiated. The rest of your comment is just annoying.

 

[Waynish]

I think acid and mushrooms are more useful, and while aya is quite different it can be too. Do it around people you trust and no need to go to a certain part of the world to do it. Also not necessary to believe what you're told during the trip to benefit. I think it's better than pure DMT - which is quite stressful and so brief and alien that it's hard to remember much.

 

[PhilParma]

Then where are the machine elves McKenna talked about

Dream harder.

 

[michael94]

never tried or liked the idea of it but I dont think vomiting is necessarily a bad thing.

 

[mt_dreams]

on the 2 occasions i've taken it i did not vomit, nor was there any stomach unrest. on the 2nd experience i did fall into the underwolrd which was way too stressful of a experience to do this again anytime soon. on both occasions i experienced wispering for a couple of days after which was a bit unsetling, especially when trying to go to sleep. my body reacts to psilocybin much more positevely/loving, even at higher doses. imo it's tough to dose ayahuasca. the allure of doing it in SA is usually b/c there will be someone who can bring you back from the dark side in the event you fall into that. if you can find someone near you that is capable of doing such things, then you dont need to go to SA for the experience. if you're doing it without someone with a wealth of experience, even if they are all close friends and you feel comfortable, be prepared there's a chance you will be stuck in the underworld all by yourself for a couple of hours (mine felt even longer.)

 

[LUH 3417]

I think the vomiting is supposed to expel parasites. Aya gave my friend serotonin syndrome.

 

[Makrosky]

bump

 

[MigFon]

I love this topic! For me ayahuasca was simultaneously the most beautiful and the hardest emotional experience ever. One of the most important experiences of my life, it still brings tears of gratitude to my eyes sometimes, just thinking about it. I don't think anyone can go through it and stay the same, either for the better or for the worst.

Regarding pure DMT, and from the testimonies that I have read and comparing them with my Aya experience, they don't seem to be anything alike. Aya teaches you or shows you important things about life, and DMT it's about having a crazy experience, it seems. I guess it really depends on what you are looking for...

Interestingly I had a massive depression in the 1st/2nd month after the experience, and then, I had a massive personality change for the better, part of which still lasts. I am so grateful for this experience.

 

[Sucrates]

I became very interested in at around 2007. After reading dozens of books and listening to thousands of hours of audio recordings I went down to find some in late 2010 and early 2011.

I found lots of cultlike activity. The retreat centre I was originally supposed to go to had a situation where they were keeping a girl drug for weeks while trying to get money out of her. She suspected people are planning to rape her. I was looking to meet up with somebody who had gotten out of that situation in Lima before I set off. She was Alaskan and from family with a history of “shamananism”, one of the most lucid people I met in those circle while there.

I ended up drinking it twice. Once with a western guy in a loft in Lima and then I went into the upper Amazon with an indigenous curandero. I was supposed to stay there longer and drink more but I had been there for 6 days, was being left for long periods without water and so on, decided to leave before things became problematic. The only concern was getting payment.

Stuff makes you have some very weird experiences. My experiences were more synesthetic than psychedelic. The different senses tended to get their wires crossed, time became warped. I did have some strong visions but they were more dreamlike and realistic. The only strong visual experiences I had were catalysed by tobacco smoke.

The physical sensation was extremely unpleasant in both cases, like having half a flu.

Most of the people I met in those circles over there were completely detached from reality, suffering from severe mental illness, probably largely induced from the substance in my opinion. It was extremely sad, especially the couple people are met when young children.

I don’t believe Ayahuasca is a useful medicine. I really wanted to believe that when I went there. I think along with most of the heavily promoted psychedelics its primary function is to make people more suggestible so that they can be more easily manipulated, whether that be for political, cultural, monetary or sexual reasons by the local current or the military-industrial complex.

I later found out that probably upwards of 95% of what I read in all of those books, many of them published by universities, some of them quite expensive, was complete nonsense. As was almost everything to come out of the many Esalen recordings I listened to.

I think I got away pretty lightly. My stubborn streak and demand for evidence of claim was probably the only thing that separated me from the train wrecks I saw in Peru. There was no sense to any of the visions, the experts insisted on trying to project some sort of story onto them after I had reported them, when I wasn’t convinced the only response was to try some more.

I put all of the positive things that people say about Ayahuasa down to suggestibility of the individual which is amplified by the substance.

 

[Collden]

Positive experience, but I took it with an organisation in Holland that created a very supportive environment. It was like a heavy shroom trip, but more emotional than visual and warmer and more gentle, made me dive deep into my emotional underworld and feel things I didn't know I was capable of feeling. I had the feeling that I died and was reborn, which is really indescribably magical, like you've cast off all of your emotional bagage and all the things you thought defined you, and are looking at the world for the first time with completely fresh eyes, as if you'd just been born.

Of course the old me gradually came back, and its difficult to say how much lasting impact it had. I still have the same problems with anxiety and poor self-esteem that I did before, in some ways feel more lost than before, but in other ways feel more grounded. Spiritual growth is a long, slow and not straightforward process.

I never vomited nor had diarrhoea, very few people in my group did either.

 

[Collden]

Most of the people I met in those circles over there were completely detached from reality, suffering from severe mental illness, probably largely induced from the substance in my opinion. It was extremely sad, especially the couple people are met when young children.

I don’t believe Ayahuasca is a useful medicine. I really wanted to believe that when I went there. I think along with most of the heavily promoted psychedelics its primary function is to make people more suggestible so that they can be more easily manipulated, whether that be for political, cultural, monetary or sexual reasons by the local current or the military-industrial complex.

I later found out that probably upwards of 95% of what I read in all of those books, many of them published by universities, some of them quite expensive, was complete nonsense. As was almost everything to come out of the many Esalen recordings I listened to.

I think I got away pretty lightly. My stubborn streak and demand for evidence of claim was probably the only thing that separated me from the train wrecks I saw in Peru. There was no sense to any of the visions, the experts insisted on trying to project some sort of story onto them after I had reported them, when I wasn’t convinced the only response was to try some more.

I put all of the positive things that people say about Ayahuasa down to suggestibility of the individual which is amplified by the substance.

Pretty much all available scientific evidence suggest regular Ayahuasca users have better mental health compared to the general population.

 

[Sucrates]

Pretty much all available scientific evidence suggest regular Ayahuasca users have better mental health compared to the general population.

It's possible. I don't trust any of the research on mind altering drugs, given the history of academia/deep state involvement in drug and mind control projects I'm pretty certain it's all designed to give a certain perception rather than to investigate and report the truth. Though mental health is a pretty subjective area, at least it can be. It's quite possible that people actually claim to be mentally healthier and that they believe it.

"A gramme is better than a damn."

"This phrase signifies the maximization of happiness and good feelings in Huxley's utilitarian society. The greatest good for the greatest number of people, according to Huxley, is to minimize any negative emotions or feelings. To do this, individuals receive a gramme of soma, a narcotic that puts them into a state of unfeeling unconsciousness. Anytime individuals feel unhappy, they remember this phrase."

 

[MigFon]

By the way, for anyone interest in psychedelics who is looking for an alternative explanation for the experiences that doesn't rely on the shamanic model, I can't recommend enough the books "Realms of the Human Unconscious" or "LSD Psychotherapy" by the pioneer researcher (from 1950's to 1970's) Stanislav Grof and perhaps "Therapy with Substance" by the swiss underground therapist Friederike Meckel Fischer. These were some of the most fascinating books I have ever read on the subject and they really helped me understand my experiences both with Aya and mushrooms.

It seems like psychedelics are somewhat similar to hynosis, in the sense that that they create a connection between the conscious and the unconscious, they open up what Aldous Huxley called the "reducing valve", and repressed stuff starts to pop up to consciousness usually in the form of metaphors, just like dreams and you also become very sensitive to cues in your immediate environment which can easily steer the journey one way or another. Which might imply that a shamanic sort of setting might not be the most appropriate.

Another very important thing seems to be the fact that, according to Grof, and at least for LSD, it would require 40 to 120 sessions to get maximal benefits, although the guy was dealing with psychiatric patients, which sometimes developed massive resistance to the experience.

All in all, fascinating stuff...

 

[Collden]

It's possible. I don't trust any of the research on mind altering drugs, given the history of academia/deep state involvement in drug and mind control projects I'm pretty certain it's all designed to give a certain perception rather than to investigate and report the truth. Though mental health is a pretty subjective area, at least it can be. It's quite possible that people actually claim to be mentally healthier and that they believe it.

"A gramme is better than a damn."

"This phrase signifies the maximization of happiness and good feelings in Huxley's utilitarian society. The greatest good for the greatest number of people, according to Huxley, is to minimize any negative emotions or feelings. To do this, individuals receive a gramme of soma, a narcotic that puts them into a state of unfeeling unconsciousness. Anytime individuals feel unhappy, they remember this phrase."

Of course, Huxley was a massive fan of psychedelics.

What you said about ayahuasca users being "detached from reality" might be true in a sense, depending on your world-view. Some of the people I met on the retreat honestly believed in ghosts and casually talked about having regular conversations with deceased relatives, but other than that appeared to be happy, loving and well-adjusted people.
I dont think having a strong spiritual side and believing in things beyond the material world necessarily makes you less able to thrive in the material world, quite possibly the opposite, since much of what is most important for us to thrive, such as love and human connection, is immaterial.

And yeah, science also says people who believe in God are happier and healthier.

 

[Sucrates]

Of course, Huxley was a massive fan of psychedelics.

Well he was a major promoter of them. He understood their use as a tool of control. I very much doubt he ever took any himself. They are meant to be used on the lower castes.

“There will be, in the next generation or so, a pharmacological method of making people love their servitude, and producing dictatorship without tears, so to speak, producing a kind of painless concentration camp for entire societies, so that people will in fact have their liberties taken away from them, but will rather enjoy it, because they will be distracted from any desire to rebel by propaganda or brainwashing, or brainwashing enhanced by pharmacological methods. And this seems to be the final revolution.”

Huxley was very well informed on pharmacological methods of control because he was right in the thick of it. The dystopia that he outlined in BNW and some of his talks has been coming along very productively since he died. I think his 1962 Berkeley talk is one of the best expositions of the project he was working on.

MK-ULTRA and The Intelligence Community

Aldous Huxley: The Ultimate Revolution