Normalize A Child's Estrogen After A Year On Soy Formula?

[Momentum]

If you could encourage someone, who gave their son soy formula the first year of life, to try and normalize their level, what would you suggest? (The child is off soy products now.)
I've read different studies that show soy formula is equivalent to between 3-8 birth control pills a day. I've also seen studies that it changes brain waves.
I've searched this forum for "lowers estrogen" but my "search" is functioning differently than it did a month or so ago. I'm just not coming up with much. Thanks

 

[GutFeeling]

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If you could encourage someone, who gave their son soy formula the first year of life, to try and normalize their level, what would you suggest? (The child is off soy products now.)
I've read different studies that show soy formula is equivalent to between 3-8 birth control pills a day. I've also seen studies that it changes brain waves.
I've searched this forum for "lowers estrogen" but my "search" is functioning differently than it did a month or so ago. I'm just not coming up with much. Thanks

Soy barely changes serum estrogens. The phytoestrogens should have a short half life

 

[Momentum]

I recently read that too, but the article I read wasn't from a trusted to source. Do you feel that is accurate information regarding the short half life?

 

[Beastmode]

I think anything that Ray Peat says as staples will help this. We have a 2.5 year old and for a short period at the hospital we had to give her some formula that had soy in it. My wife breastfed ours for over 2 years, but if the child is able to eat solids, it's pretty straightforward.

Our toddler eats close to 100% Peaty:
- OJ
- eggs from the farm
- goat milk and cheese.
- occasional cooked oysters (2x per month)
- just got her back on weekly beef liver (this week and it's going great.)
- ripe fruits (low serotonin ones.)
- oxtail soup (gelatinous when cold)
- homemade jello

Other things:
- plenty of sunlight.
- barefoot in grass
- limit blue light and non incadescent lighting
- vitamin d
- calcium much higher than phosphorus
- T3 when needed.
- low pufa

 

[GutFeeling]

Urinary and serum concentrations of seven phytoestrogens in a human reference population subset
Analised 7 phytoestrogens they found half life raging from 3 to 10 hours

Plasma pharmacokinetics and urinary excretion of isoflavones after ingestion of soy products with different aglycone/glucoside ratios in South Korean women
About 6 hours

https://www.google.com/url?sa=t&sou...FjAAegQIBRAB&usg=AOvVaw1YCG-nIcP29hPza35oDmxk
Up to 9 hours


Clinical Characteristics and Pharmacokinetics of Purified Soy Isoflavones: Single-Dose Administration to Healthy Men - PubMed
Up to 9 hours


Effects of soy phytoestrogens on the prostate

Up to 8 hours

 

[Momentum]

@GutFeeling
Thank you for the resources. It still concerns me because even if the phytoestrogens leave within 10 hours - they never leave an infant feed soy formula while on formula. The child is getting a bottle multiple times/day for the first year of life. From what I've read, this is very concerning. Once a child is (hopefully) changed from soy to cow milk, are there long term effects that could effect development? Is there a build up? How is this corrected?
Sadly, I do not get the option of what this child eats daily, but I can offer up some supplements.

 

[GutFeeling]

@GutFeeling
Thank you for the resources. It still concerns me because even if the phytoestrogens leave within 10 hours - they never leave an infant feed soy formula while on formula. The child is getting a bottle multiple times/day for the first year of life. From what I've read, this is very concerning. Once a child is (hopefully) changed from soy to cow milk, are there long term effects that could effect development? Is there a build up? How is this corrected?
Sadly, I do not get the option of what this child eats daily, but I can offer up some supplements.

I remember reading some articles showing a link of soy consumption by the mother and autism, I also read a few suggesting that feeding to the baby increases the risk too.
Soy Infant Formula may be Associated with Autistic Behaviors

I'm not sure if this happens with phytoestrogens but the most expressive effects of estrogen during development are early puberty and growth stunt, it is also linked with ADHD. PUFA accumulation seems dangerous too (from peatarian perspective at least).

Later i will try to put some effort in finding something helpful, but I don't know much about the safety of supplements in babys.
The mainstream push vitamin D supplementation, this would probably be helpful. Since vitamin E blocks estrogen at receptor level it would be nice.

 

[Rafael Lao Wai]

If you could encourage someone, who gave their son soy formula the first year of life, to try and normalize their level, what would you suggest? (The child is off soy products now.)
I've read different studies that show soy formula is equivalent to between 3-8 birth control pills a day. I've also seen studies that it changes brain waves.
I've searched this forum for "lowers estrogen" but my "search" is functioning differently than it did a month or so ago. I'm just not coming up with much. Thanks

Soy has lots of lectins, which damage the gut lining. Although the estrogenic effects of soy are bad, I would be more worried about gut damage at this point. Feeding the child some chicken feet soup( with the fat skimmed), or some beef bone broth would help to repair the gut. Make sure to get quality animal parts for this.

Saturated fats( grass- fed beef tallow and butter are the best options probably) are good for the gut as well.

As for the hormonal situation, you could frequently feed the child some beef heart. It contains testosterone. I notice an effect within hours of eating a lot of it. Beef testicle may be really good for this too, but I've never eaten it, so I can't really share any experience regarding ths food.

 

[Momentum]

Thank you all.
The soy infant formula lobby has been busy lately. For years, the WHO and IIRC the AMA or ApedatricianA has used the phrased "breast is best". I'm doing this from memory and not looking up sources, but someone decided "Fed is best". WHO complained and said they wouldn't endorse, but they were told they would be sanctioned. Additionally, they've created a long, long list of symptoms that state your baby isn't tolerating bovine formula and should be switched to soy. This list is so long, that apparently, most babies are now put on soy formula.

@Rafael Lao Wai thanks for the reminder about lectins and gut.
@GutFeeling thank you for your thoughts and research

 

[somuch4food]

Fed is best

Fed is best is important. I read a testimonial of a mother who lost her infant to malnourishment since she was being pushed to continue to breastfeed and try harder by everyone even while her supply was inadequate.

 

[Auslander]

Regardless of what the baby has eaten, trying to ‘fix’ its hormones is insane and should not be attempted.

 

[Rafael Lao Wai]

Regardless of what the baby has eaten, trying to ‘fix’ its hormones is insane and should not be attempted.

Why?

 

[Momentum]

Regardless of what the baby has eaten, trying to ‘fix’ its hormones is insane and should not be attempted.

It isn't trying to "fix" the child's hormones as you're implying. It is about possibly cleaning out the excess estrogen that excess soy may have deposited so that a body can return to homeostasis. - It's kind of what this group is about ;-) Given the right diet and nutrition (not easy) a body would hopefully return to optimal functioning.

Excess estrogen isn't good for male or female. Look at the damage that birth control pills cause, and babies are getting exponentially more estrogen in soy formula than a full grown woman in BCPs.

I haven't looked it up lately, but isn't there a connection with excess xeno and phyto-estrogens and early onset puberty? And as GutFeeling pointed out a connection with autism.

 

[Constatine]

White button mushrooms should be a safe aid depending on the child's age. Does the child have any obvious or maybe subtle health problems?

 

[Beastmode]

White button mushrooms should be a safe aid depending on the child's age. Does the child have any obvious or maybe subtle health problems?

Our toddler loves white button mushrooms.

I would add a little shredded carrot by itself as our toddler seems to do well with it a few times per week.

 

[Constatine]

Soy has lots of lectins, which damage the gut lining. Although the estrogenic effects of soy are bad, I would be more worried about gut damage at this point. Feeding the child some chicken feet soup( with the fat skimmed), or some beef bone broth would help to repair the gut. Make sure to get quality animal parts for this.

Saturated fats( grass- fed beef tallow and butter are the best options probably) are good for the gut as well.

As for the hormonal situation, you could frequently feed the child some beef heart. It contains testosterone. I notice an effect within hours of eating a lot of it. Beef testicle may be really good for this too, but I've never eaten it, so I can't really share any experience regarding ths food.

Regarding beef heart I've heart that it contains a large amount of testosterone a lot but I can't find any sources on it. Do you know of any? Also what testosterone like effects do you experience after eating it?

 

[Momentum]

Nothing obvious yet. What is it about white button mushrooms? Adaptogen? I would assumed cooked well

 

[Constatine]

Nothing obvious yet. What is it about white button mushrooms? Adaptogen? I would assumed cooked well

It's just a pretty strong aromatase inhibitor and thus lowers estrogen. If you get joint pain from it that means your consuming too much and estrogen levels are driven too low. Else it's very safe. Cooked well is a good idea but it doesn't really have to be. Its not known to contain potentially toxic substances that are cooked off like other mushrooms (such as shiitake).

 

[Momentum]

It's just a pretty strong aromatase inhibitor and thus lowers estrogen. If you get joint pain from it that means your consuming too much and estrogen levels are driven too low. Else it's very safe. Cooked well is a good idea but it doesn't really have to be. Its not known to contain potentially toxic substances that are cooked off like other mushrooms (such as shiitake).

Good to know!!! Thank you

 

[Rafael Lao Wai]

Regarding beef heart I've heart that it contains a large amount of testosterone a lot but I can't find any sources on it. Do you know of any? Also what testosterone like effects do you experience after eating it?

No. I've never seen any studies on it, but after I eat it, I feel that my libido increases a lot. I think that's the most noticeable effect, but it also makes me feel really good mood- wise, and I feel stronger when I'm lifting weights. Can't really say for sure that it's the testosterone, but it feels different than when I eat liver, or muscle meat, so it's a possibility.

The heart resists stress better than other organs. Testosterone protects against cortisol, so I think this the reasoning why the heart has to have a higher amount of testosterone than other parts of the organism. I first heard this from @haidut, but I don't know where he got that from. It would be interesting to know.

Beef tongue is also a source of steroids, supposedly.