Milk, mTOR and cancer

Whichway?

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Good point. I'm just wondering if you would be hard pressed to find a food that doesn't have these issues....? Not sure what to think tbh
The respondents make a good and valid point about Cow’s milk being a food which is designed to make young calves grow at essentially four times the rate a young human child does. This has always been one of the arguments that has concerned me most about milk as I feel it really has some truth behind it which is hard to ignore or explain away in the sense that not many if any other foods human beings consume have effect of such strong growth promotion.

So I can see how once you develop a cancerous lesion then milk may provide the necessary cellular signals to fuel its growth.

However the other side of the argument is that the odds risk ratio the paper was stating was for every glass of milk consumed women had a 1.15 x greater risk of dying and men a 1.03 x greater risk. However at 4 glasses of milk per day they said for women the ratio was 1.93 x greater risk of dying, which is almost double the risk for non-milk drinkers. However the odds risk ratio for lower consumption doesn’t seem to add up to that found at higher consumption levels so i am a bit confused how they arrived at the calculations. For men the risk doesn’t seem that high for the nutritional benefits milk might bring.

The response letter was absolutely clear though in painting milk as a poisonous cocktail of growth promoting molecules that should only be drunk by calves and not humans.

I don’t know to be honest....and I’m a molecular biologist LOL!!!
 

Mito

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Abstract​

An ongoing controversy exists regarding the effect of dairy products on prostate cancer risk in observational studies. We prospectively investigated the associations between dairy product consumption and prostate cancer risk among men in the United States. After calculating pre-diagnostic intake of individual or subgroups of dairy products using a validated food frequency questionnaire, we estimated hazard ratios (HR) and 95% confidence intervals (CI) for pathologically-verified cases of incident prostate cancer among men, overall, or stratified by severity. Among 49,472 men, 4134 were diagnosed with prostate cancer during an average follow-up period of 11.2 years. The median total dairy intake was 101 g/1000 kcal. Consumption of total, individual, or subgroups of dairy products was not statistically significantly associated with prostate cancer risk overall (HR = 1.05, 95% CI = 0.96–1.15 comparing the highest with lowest quartile) or stratified by severity, except for regular-fat dairy product intake with late-stage prostate cancer risk (HR = 1.37, 95% CI = 1.04–1.82 comparing the highest with lowest quartile) and 2%-fat milk intake with advanced prostate cancer risk (HR = 1.14, 95% CI = 1.02–1.28 comparing the higher than median intake with no intake group). Our findings do not support the previously reported harmful impact of dairy consumption on overall prostate cancer risk among men in the United States.

Dairy Product Consumption and Prostate Cancer Risk in the United States
 

Mito

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Ray Peat shows the benefits of milk especially on stress but with age the risk of cancer is obvious ... The mechanisms are known and go through the activation of mTOR 1. according to some studies pasteurized milk is much worse


If it worries you, drink coffee with milk.

“Caffeine has been reported to inhibit some kinase activities, including various forms of phosphoinositol-3 kinase and mammalian target of rapamycin (mTOR). ... Here we report that higher concentrations of caffeine enhance autophagic flux in a dose-dependent manner in various cell lines.”
 

Sefton10

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This has always been one of the arguments that has concerned me most about milk as I feel it really has some truth behind it which is hard to ignore or explain away in the sense that not many if any other foods human beings consume have effect of such strong growth promotion.
This is a good argument to prefer goats milk. Unfortunately, for the equivalent quality (organic, grass fed, unhomogenized etc.) as A2 cow's milk that is available it is either impossible to get or prohibitively expensive, unless you own your own goat! So it comes back to whether the potential nutritional benefits of cow's milk outweigh the potential negatives. For me they do.
 

Mr.Bollox

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Milk does raise mtor, igf1, things which are associated with cancer but I look at it this way to not get confused by the abstract jargon: biologically, cancer = disorganized growth. Mtor is associated with growth, anything that increases growth increases mtor, which is why protein raises it. Milk is the most pro-growth food so it will raise mtor, but the question is, is the growth it causes disorganized or organized? A low calcium to phosphate ratio is a fundamental root of biological disorganization, so milk which has high calcium to phosphate isn't cancerous even though it increases growth/mtor (unless there are additives or contaminants in the milk which alter calcium to phosphate availability/absorbtion)
@Hans regarding calcium phosphate, ive seen creatine commonly recommended to supplement, doesnt it raise phosphate levels? and milk has calcium to phosphate in something like a 4:3 ratio, whereas meat has a lot of phosphorus and no calcium. while bones have ca to phosphorus in 2:1 which is even better than milk. would creatine supplementation long term cause cancer and other issues?
 
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All those things that you mentioned all are strong anti-cancer compounds, emodin, and biSoCal Ein I am quite familiar with. Inhibiting lipolysis is a very powerful way of inhibiting tumors.
 

Hans

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@Hans regarding calcium phosphate, ive seen creatine commonly recommended to supplement, doesnt it raise phosphate levels? and milk has calcium to phosphate in something like a 4:3 ratio, whereas meat has a lot of phosphorus and no calcium. while bones have ca to phosphorus in 2:1 which is even better than milk. would creatine supplementation long term cause cancer and other issues?
No creatine doesn't increase phosphate levels in the body since it doesn't contain any.
 

Mr.Bollox

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No creatine doesn't increase phosphate levels in the body since it doesn't contain any.
but its been confirmed in several BBing forums and even mentioned around here. on the BB forums they subscribe creatines benefits in part to its phosphate boosting effects... lactose and some sugars have a phosphate lowering effect. there are plenty of substances which have a calcium boosting/lessening or phosphate boosting/decreasing effect in the body. vitamin A for instance also boosts phosphate...
 

Hans

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but its been confirmed in several BBing forums and even mentioned around here. on the BB forums they subscribe creatines benefits in part to its phosphate boosting effects... lactose and some sugars have a phosphate lowering effect. there are plenty of substances which have a calcium boosting/lessening or phosphate boosting/decreasing effect in the body. vitamin A for instance also boosts phosphate...
Creatine boosts phosphocreatine whereas fructose boosts ATP (adenosine triphosphate) production. It basically binds more phosphorus up vs increasing total phosphorus amount. Meaning if you have 100g of phosphorus in the body, creatine will not make it 105g.
 

Mr.Bollox

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Creatine boosts phosphocreatine whereas fructose boosts ATP (adenosine triphosphate) production. It basically binds more phosphorus up vs increasing total phosphorus amount. Meaning if you have 100g of phosphorus in the body, creatine will not make it 105g.

other than the phosphate thing, wouldnt consuming creatine cause an excess of choline and methionine? as those nutrients are usually used to make creatine, but if you consume it you may create an excess of those nutrients?
 

Hans

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other than the phosphate thing, wouldnt consuming creatine cause an excess of choline and methionine? as those nutrients are usually used to make creatine, but if you consume it you may create an excess of those nutrients?
Not necessarily. They are used for many other things as well. Creatine is very healthy and safe with almost no side effects.
 

Mr.Bollox

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Not necessarily. They are used for many other things as well. Creatine is very healthy and safe with almost no side effects.
some people claim creatine causes hair loss. Also mate some claim creatine depletes inosine and both need to be supplemented... some youtubers market inosine products for that purpose to creatine users. do you also like beta alanine and taurine supplementation
 

Jon2547

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I only drink raw milk. I am fortunate to be in an area where I can go the local organic store and purchase.
 
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