Milk, mTOR and cancer

NOBRU

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The answer of Haidut for sure is Vit D, calcium and K2 protect form cancer. But the pathway of mTOR 1 is aging is a really cause of many cancer. High mTOR1 come from high BCAA and may be high fat diet also is a cause of prostate cancer....it remains to be seen if the Vit D / K2 calcium cocktail is powerful enough to reverse a signaling such as mTOR which is powerfully stimulated by dairy products! I'm asking the question ?
 

Chophouse360

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The answer of Haidut for sure is Vit D, calcium and K2 protect form cancer. But the pathway of mTOR 1 is aging is a really cause of many cancer. High mTOR1 come from high BCAA and may be high fat diet also is a cause of prostate cancer....it remains to be seen if the Vit D / K2 calcium cocktail is powerful enough to reverse a signaling such as mTOR which is powerfully stimulated by dairy products! I'm asking the question ?
Right. I just like to always Tag relevant members in case they don’t see the post for some reason
 

Hans

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Ray Peat shows the benefits of milk especially on stress but with age the risk of cancer is obvious ... The mechanisms are known and go through the activation of mTOR 1. according to some studies pasteurized milk is much worse


@Chophouse360
Milk is protective against various cancers as well as prostate cancer.
"suggestive inverse trends were observed for cheese and ice cream intake with total and/or advanced PCa (p-trends = 0.043-0.153), and for milk, dairy, and calcium intake with fatal PCa" (R).

Even an all meat diet doesn't increase mTOR or IGF-1 to excess levels. Perhaps a very high protein diet can increase mTOR too much, but it's more related to hyperinsulinemia, glucocorticoid excess, hypothyroidism, endotoxin absorption, etc.
 

Chophouse360

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@Chophouse360
Milk is protective against various cancers as well as prostate cancer.
"suggestive inverse trends were observed for cheese and ice cream intake with total and/or advanced PCa (p-trends = 0.043-0.153), and for milk, dairy, and calcium intake with fatal PCa" (R).

Even an all meat diet doesn't increase mTOR or IGF-1 to excess levels. Perhaps a very high protein diet can increase mTOR too much, but it's more related to hyperinsulinemia, glucocorticoid excess, hypothyroidism, endotoxin absorption, etc.
Thanks
 

lampofred

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Milk does raise mtor, igf1, things which are associated with cancer but I look at it this way to not get confused by the abstract jargon: biologically, cancer = disorganized growth. Mtor is associated with growth, anything that increases growth increases mtor, which is why protein raises it. Milk is the most pro-growth food so it will raise mtor, but the question is, is the growth it causes disorganized or organized? A low calcium to phosphate ratio is a fundamental root of biological disorganization, so milk which has high calcium to phosphate isn't cancerous even though it increases growth/mtor (unless there are additives or contaminants in the milk which alter calcium to phosphate availability/absorbtion)
 

NOBRU

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@Chophouse360
Milk is protective against various cancers as well as prostate cancer.
"suggestive inverse trends were observed for cheese and ice cream intake with total and/or advanced PCa (p-trends = 0.043-0.153), and for milk, dairy, and calcium intake with fatal PCa" (R).

Even an all meat diet doesn't increase mTOR or IGF-1 to excess levels. Perhaps a very high protein diet can increase mTOR too much, but it's more related to hyperinsulinemia, glucocorticoid excess, hypothyroidism, endotoxin absorption, etc.
Not sure ! you don't need to much protein to increase mTOR, just high BCAA from milk or whey; It's leucine that stimulates various points of the mTOR pathway, including different anabolic hormones via, such as insulin. In fact LEUCINE itself is the best activator of mTOR....With aging is not really good....only for sarcopenia !
Many publication show that low protein with aging increase longevity. Also anti-aging doctor that give GH are wrong, it's powerful IGF-1/mTOR stimulant.
 
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Hans

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Not sure ! you don't need to much protein to increase mTOR, just high BCAA from milk or whey; It's leucine that stimulates various points of the mTOR pathway, including different anabolic hormones via, such as insulin. In fact LEUCINE itself is the best activator of mTOR....With aging is not really good....only for sarcopenia !
Many publication show that low protein with aging increase longevity. Also anti-aging doctor that give GH are wrong, it's powerful IGF-1/mTOR stimulant.
Moderate protein diets, 120-150g per day, don't cause premature aging or disease.
 

Whichway?

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If you look at the responses to the article cited above they say that it is microRNA particles in milk which are activating the mTOR pathway, and they believe it is this chronic chemical induction of mTOR by milk which is dangerous to human health over the long term. Just as smoking doesn’t kill you straight away, but promotes inflammation and oxidative stress which over the long term which is harmful, they are arguing that the chemical components of milk, especially the microRNAs have a similar effect.

Interesting....
 

Inaut

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If you look at the responses to the article cited above they say that it is microRNA particles in milk which are activating the mTOR pathway, and they believe it is this chronic chemical induction of mTOR by milk which is dangerous to human health over the long term. Just as smoking doesn’t kill you straight away, but promotes inflammation and oxidative stress which over the long term which is harmful, they are arguing that the chemical components of milk, especially the microRNAs have a similar effect.

Interesting....
Good point. I'm just wondering if you would be hard pressed to find a food that doesn't have these issues....? Not sure what to think tbh
 

LeeLemonoil

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I stay away from Milk. It's the one thing where I think Peat is not only wrong but very wrong to rate is so benevolently.

mTor-activation. mRNA that potently set in motion various pathways and block others. Active peptides, ESstrogen and prolactin.

As always though, nothing is black or white in physiology.

See here:
Milk disrupts p53 and DNMT1, the guardians of the genome: implications for acne vulgaris and prostate cancer (I recommend all of Melniks Milk-related publications) BAD

see here: Mybe not so bad
 

Inaut

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I stay away from Milk. It's the one thing where I think Peat is not only wrong but very wrong to rate is so benevolently.

mTor-activation. mRNA that potently set in motion various pathways and block others. Active peptides, ESstrogen and prolactin.

As always though, nothing is black or white in physiology.

See here:
Milk disrupts p53 and DNMT1, the guardians of the genome: implications for acne vulgaris and prostate cancer (I recommend all of Melniks Milk-related publications) BAD

see here: Mybe not so bad
How do you get calcium @LeeLemonoil ?
 

Jam

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There have been multiple times in the past where I had been convinced that Peat was wrong on one subject or another, only to come to the realization that he was right, again and again.
 

Inaut

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There have been multiple times in the past where I had been convinced that Peat was wrong on one subject or another, only to come to the realization that he was right, again and again.
except chaparral though right amigo ;)
 

Jam

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except chaparral though right amigo ;)
He has spoken positively about NDGA. Never heard him mention chaparral in a negative light?
 

Inaut

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He has spoken positively about NDGA. Never heard him mention chaparral in a negative light?
it's in one of his older newsletters. He mentions chaparral and flax when discussing phytoestrogens
 

Jam

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it's in one of his older newsletters. He mentions chaparral and flax when discussing phytoestrogens
Hmm, that was a reference though, not his words. ;)
 

Jam

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Once, I asked Peat about "safe" lipoxygenase inhibitors. He told me "Emodin, nordihydroguaiaretic acid, caffeic acid and baicalein" . I haven't really experimented with those (except emodin a bit) but for each of them I could find studies that made them undesirable. I think one of its most potent inhibitors is simply omega-3 intake because it blocks arachidonic acid before it goes to either pathway, contrarily to aspirin. Vitamin E would work in the same way.
 
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