Excess iodine exposure acutely increases salivary iodide and antimicrobial hypoiodous acid concentrations in humans

[Makrosky]

@Jam @Makrosky I ordered Weyland SSKI and some 200mcg Selenium Methionine capsules today so will see what happens, using my long-standing shoulder pain as a marker. If it helps, great - then maybe we can chat about if it was the anti-fungal aspect, or something else.

Maybe start with 1/4 a drop of SSKI and 100mcg selenomethionine and see if your body reacts ok to it.

Different dosages have different effects but as with anything new (and powerful) is good to do a few safety tests first.

 

[Peater]

Maybe start with 1/4 a drop of SSKI and 100mcg selenomethionine and see if your body reacts ok to it.

Different dosages have different effects but as with anything new (and powerful) is good to do a few safety tests first.

Thanks I meant to ask if you and @Jam had any guidance for starting. Obviously this is for information/at my own risk.

Also, do you remember the "timeline" of benefits, how soon you notice improvements or even just little changes?

 

[Makrosky]

Thanks I meant to ask if you and @Jam had any guidance for starting. Obviously this is for information/at my own risk.

Also, do you remember the "timeline" of benefits, how soon you notice improvements or even just little changes?

For the knees (more than 10 yrs ago) IIRC it was just a very few days before the noises disappearing completely. But other sistemic effects are immediate and this I can confirm as I still use it sparingly and is consistent every time. As soon as the iodine gets into circulation (30, 40mins?) I feel much better.

Advice: I became way more conservative with self experimentation as I age, so my advice is to start slow always. Iodine requires quite some trial and error to find what works for you. Start with 1/4 a drop and 100mcg for a few days just in case.

Stay well fed also with nutrient-rich food.

If you tag me in this thread I will write back.

And yes please, this is not medical advice. Do your own research :P

 

[Makrosky]

@Peater the effects also change as time passes. The first days the body is kind of confused, then it tends to stabilize.

 

[Peater]

Appreciate it @Makrosky. Will post updates! (It hasn't arrived yet)

 

[Ras]

TL;DR: Cautions about dosing potassium iodide are exaggerated. Just take it.

Considering the opinions often being repeated here at the RPF about starting very slow and gentle with inconsequential doses of potassium iodide, and always ensuring that it's given with ample companions like selenomethionine, I'd like to remind everyone that potassium iodide (as SSKI, which is usually poisoned with the preservative sodium thiosulfate) has been the go-to treatment for cutaneous sporotrichosis for decades (https://doi.org/10.1080/09546630310020452); in that treatment, initial doses begin at hundreds of milligrams, and proceed to be administered as high as six grams (six thousand milligrams) daily for months, always without regard to co-administration or cessation of any other substance (Redirecting). In these case studies, side-effects are mild, infrequent, and transient, with some of the most commonly cited being halide acne, and alterations in TSH, the former of which happens due to iodine's antimicrobial effects, and the latter of which happens because the body elevates TSH to stimulate the sodium-iodide transporter.

Albert Szent-Gyorgi was one of many clinicians who gave his patients multi-hundred milligram doses of potassium iodide daily for weeks and months, never expressing timidity about the dosing regimen (Bioenergetics : Szent-Györgyi, Albert, 1893-1986 : Free Download, Borrow, and Streaming : Internet Archive). I have experimented with doses as high as three hundred milligrams daily for several weeks; the worst effects I experienced were acne and sleep disturbance, both of which completely resolved soon after my last dose.

 

[Makrosky]

TL;DR: Cautions about dosing potassium iodide are unfounded. Just take it.

Considering the opinions often being repeated here at the RPF about starting very slow and gentle with inconsequential doses of potassium iodide, and always ensuring that it's given with ample companions like selenomethionine, I'd like to remind everyone that potassium iodide (as SSKI, which is usually poisoned with the preservative sodium thiosulfate) has been the go-to treatment for cutaneous sporotrichosis for decades (https://doi.org/10.1080/09546630310020452); in that treatment, initial doses begin at hundreds of milligrams, and proceed to be administered as high as six grams (six thousand milligrams) daily for months, always without regard to co-administration or cessation of any other substance (Redirecting). In these case studies, side-effects are mild, infrequent, and transient, with some of the most commonly cited being halide acne, and alterations in TSH, the former of which happens due to iodine's antimicrobial effects, and the latter of which happens because the body elevates TSH to stimulate the sodium-iodide transporter.

Albert Szent-Gyorgi was one of many clinicians who gave his patients multi-hundred milligram doses of potassium iodide daily for weeks and months, never expressing timidity about the dosing regimen (Bioenergetics : Szent-Györgyi, Albert, 1893-1986 : Free Download, Borrow, and Streaming : Internet Archive). I have experimented with doses as high as three hundred milligrams daily for several weeks; the worst effects I experienced were acne and sleep disturbance, both of which completely resolved soon after my last dose.

You are mixing up things. You have very valid points but I think your are not understanding the difference between something written on a paper(s) (even if it is from a clinical practice) and reality. If we would judge solely by papers, all of us would be dosing on progesterone, pregnenolone, DHEA, etc. and solving all our problems without any single side effect. The reality is completely different, just look on the forum how many people cannot use some of these substances because of bad side effects. Just to put a very simple example.

You can go and read the old curezone iodine forums if they are still online. You will see lots of people having problems (enlarged thyroid, painful thyroid, etc.) after supplementing iodine (Lugol and SSKI) that went away after using selenomethionine. I even experienced it myself. So please do everyone a favor and don't drive them away of the very wise advice of "go slow". It cannot hurt more than going fast, unless you are fighting a terminal illness like cancer.

It also has psychological effects for some people, again explained in the old curezone and experienced by myself. You need to be prepared for it. You are giving very risky advice to strangers and of course you know better than iodine MDs like Brownstein et al.

I don't understand what interest do you have on saying this.

Also, can you please provide sources of the sodium thiosulfate thing? Totally sounds like scaremongering. If you buy USP KI and dissolve in distilled water, I don't see where the problem can be.

 

[Jam]

You are mixing up things. You have very valid points but I think your are not understanding the difference between something written on a paper(s) (even if it is from a clinical practice) and reality. If we would judge solely by papers, all of us would be dosing on progesterone, pregnenolone, DHEA, etc. and solving all our problems without any single side effect. The reality is completely different, just look on the forum how many people cannot use some of these substances because of bad side effects. Just to put a very simple example.

You can go and read the old curezone iodine forums if they are still online. You will see lots of people having problems (enlarged thyroid, painful thyroid, etc.) after supplementing iodine (Lugol and SSKI) that went away after using selenomethionine. I even experienced it myself. So please do everyone a favor and don't drive them away of the very wise advice of "go slow". It cannot hurt more than going fast, unless you are fighting a terminal illness like cancer.

It also has psychological effects for some people, again explained in the old curezone and experienced by myself. You need to be prepared for it. You are giving very risky advice to strangers and of course you know better than iodine MDs like Brownstein et al.

I don't understand what interest do you have on saying this.

Also, can you please provide sources of the sodium thiosulfate thing? Totally sounds like scaremongering. If you buy USP KI and dissolve in distilled water, I don't see where the problem can be.

So, for example, the Weyland SSKI that Peater reported purchasing above is one of those "poisoned" with sodium thiosulfate. I would not use it myself. They add it to prevent the SSKI solution from turning yellowish over time due to the air oxidizing small quantities of KI to I2.

 

[Jam]

For the record, I agree with Ras but prefer Mak's cautious approach. I for example took 150mg for years without ever touching selenomethionine as my diet is already high in selenium, and never had a single issue. But when giving advice on a public forum to "strangers", it is better to proceed with caution. I would just stress (again) that our recommendation to supplement selenium only applies to selenomethionine, as it is much more difficult to "overdose" than other forms of selenium. I would be very cautious with any other form of selenium-- selenium toxicity is no laughing matter.

 

[cs3000]

its interesting iodine was like a primitive version of thyroid before land animals existed , then iodine became more scarce out of water.
so thyroid evolved to be more important

when u go hypothyroid, you become more reptile
(dry skin, less hair, more sluggish, cold). which is kind of wild to recognise

iodide has been used to treat inflammatory / ulcer conditions sometimes with remarkable effect
https://raypeatforum.com/community/threads/cure-ulcerative-colitis-in-6-weeks.46821/post-921071
and gives oxidative stress protection in low doses

Although the specific mechanisms involved in the antioxidant effect of iodine have not been analyzed in depth, several studies show that I− could be acting directly as an electron donor that quenches free radicals such as OH• or H2O2; alternatively, it may act as a free radical that readily iodinates tyrosine, histidine, and double bonds of some polyunsaturated fatty acids in cellular membranes,

but
going high with iodide causes oxidative stress & tissue damage in mid & high milligram amounts.

shown in thyroid tissue (lowering thyroid follicular cell growth in vivo, and thyrocyte proliferation)
and other places too. and i'd think iodine would be worse than iodide in lower amounts

e.g:

Excess iodine impairs spermatogenesis by inducing oxidative stress and perturbing the blood testis barrier

Approximately 2 billion people worldwide are susceptible to iodine deficiency. Iodine deficiency has largely been tackled by iodine fortification in s…

www.sciencedirect.com

 

[Jam]

but going high with iodide causes oxidative stress & tissue damage in mid & high milligram amounts.

This is absolute BS but I am not going to get dragged into another fruitless argument on the subject -- think of it what you will.

 

[Makrosky]

For the record, I agree with Ras but prefer Mak's cautious approach. I for example took 150mg for years without ever touching selenomethionine as my diet is already high in selenium, and never had a single issue. But when giving advice on a public forum to "strangers", it is better to proceed with caution. I would just stress (again) that our recommendation to supplement selenium only applies to selenomethionine, as it is much more difficult to "overdose" than other forms of selenium. I would be very cautious with any other form of selenium-- selenium toxicity is no laughing matter.

Yes. This 100%

 

[Makrosky]

So, for example, the Weyland SSKI that Peater reported purchasing above is one of those "poisoned" with sodium thiosulfate. I would not use it myself. They add it to prevent the SSKI solution from turning yellowish over time due to the air oxidizing small quantities of KI to I2.

Ah ok it is about pre-made commercial products. Sure. They will put all sorts of crap there.

 

[Jam]

I have experimented with doses as high as three hundred milligrams daily for several weeks; the worst effects I experienced were acne and sleep disturbance, both of which completely resolved soon after my last dose.

I once took 900mg daily or more (up to 1200mg) for 2 weeks straight when I had "omicron" in early 2022 (the week after my vaxxed cousin stayed at our house a few weeks after her 2nd dose). I ran a fever of up to 39C for 2 days straight and was working and doing normal activities thanks to the iodide. I posted a study around that time that showed that during acute illness, viral or otherwise, iodine stores are quickly depleted and the body goes hypothyroid until you recover unless plenty of iodine is supplemented.

 

[Jam]

I once took 900mg daily or more (up to 1200mg) for 2 weeks straight when I had "omicron" in early 2022 (the week after my vaxxed cousin stayed at our house a few weeks after her 2nd dose). I ran a fever of up to 39C for 2 days straight and was working and doing normal activities thanks to the iodide. I posted a study around that time that showed that during acute illness, viral or otherwise, iodine stores are quickly depleted and the body goes hypothyroid until you recover unless plenty of iodine is supplemented.

Iodine Redistribution During Trauma, Sepsis, and Hibernation: An Evolutionarily Conserved Response to Severe Stress

https://www.fredhutch.org/en/news/center-news/2020/10/roth-iodine-essential-element.html https://journals.lww.com/ccejournal/Fulltext/2020/10000/Iodine_Redistribution_During_Trauma,_Sepsis,_and.16.aspx The benefits of iodine — an element essential for life — are well established. As a key...

raypeatforum.com

 

[Ras]

You are mixing up things. You have very valid points...

My sweeping point is that the trepidation is unwarranted, so begin with the therapeutic dose. The risk of unlimited harm is so close to zero that, statistically, one would be wiser to avoid walking in public. Why waste the time? If the therapeutic dose is adverse, walk it back, or cease altogether. If it works, then you gain the added benefit of redeemed time.

Be bold. You can almost always find a cause for caution, but that doesn't mean caution is always warranted. Often, one need examine only the ratio of risk to reward. With potassium iodide, one is risking discomfort for the reward of one or more cures. It is a nutrient that is sometimes used as a drug, not the contrary.

DMSO serves as another example of a natural substance found in foodstuffs, with which people exercise excess caution. One of the discoverers of DMSO consumed 30 grams of DMSO by mouth each day for decades, even admitting that he didn't know what it did. He died at 91 years of age, older than Ray Peat and with more hair (and teeth). There are people on this forum that are afraid to put drops of DMSO on their skin.

 

[Ras]

its interesting iodine was like a primitive version of thyroid before land animals existed , then iodine became more scarce out of water.
so thyroid evolved to be more important
View attachment 51241

when u go hypothyroid, you become more reptile
(dry skin, less hair, more sluggish, cold). which is kind of wild to recognise

View attachment 51237

iodide has been used to treat inflammatory / ulcer conditions sometimes with remarkable effect
https://raypeatforum.com/community/threads/cure-ulcerative-colitis-in-6-weeks.46821/post-921071
and gives oxidative stress protection in low doses


but
going high with iodide causes oxidative stress & tissue damage in mid & high milligram amounts.

shown in thyroid tissue (lowering thyroid follicular cell growth in vivo, and thyrocyte proliferation)
and other places too. and i'd think iodine would be worse than iodide in lower amounts

e.g:

Excess iodine impairs spermatogenesis by inducing oxidative stress and perturbing the blood testis barrier

Approximately 2 billion people worldwide are susceptible to iodine deficiency. Iodine deficiency has largely been tackled by iodine fortification in s…

www.sciencedirect.com

View attachment 51239

Iodine is not iodide, just as chlorine is not chloride.

 

[Peater]

So, for example, the Weyland SSKI that Peater reported purchasing above is one of those "poisoned" with sodium thiosulfate. I would not use it myself. They add it to prevent the SSKI solution from turning yellowish over time due to the air oxidizing small quantities of KI to I2.

It seemed to be all I could get in the UK...I give up!

 

[Peater]

There's this but it would rely on me being able to accurately weigh and make up a solution.

Potassium Iodide 99.9% BP, EP, USP, FG

apcpure.com

 

[Ras]

There's this but it would rely on me being able to accurately weigh and make up a solution.

Potassium Iodide 99.9% BP, EP, USP, FG

apcpure.com

Scales are cheap and plentiful. Scoops cannot be trusted.