End Times, Donald Trump, Deadly Wound. Flying Saucers, Garden Of Eden. Who Is The Anti-Christ?

[damngoodcoffee]

The 4 beasts in Daniel 7?

Yes. Here's a video about this:

 

[damngoodcoffee]

Martin is a chill guy and tends to ramble quite a bit, i hope it doesn't bother.

 

[Tenacity]

If your loved one is evil and serves satan, you still want to hang out with them?

Not necessarily, but I wouldn't appreciate my memories being tampered with either.

 

[Constatine]

I didn't say a God who creates, I was referring to a force of motion in the universe that increases in complexity as life did. Why does the creative force have to be fully realized before it can begin creation? Is the musician fully realized the first time they pick up their instrument and play?

I'm assuming this force would not have to do with human consciousness as that's a little silly. Here is a little thought experiment to illustrate a problem (or confirmation depending on your perspective) with such a theory and to promote a classical religious view, though of course this thought experiment has flaws: it is truelly remarkable that us human beings exsist. One would reason that of course human beings exsist since the universe is infinite in space and maybe time. If one understands infinity then it is no wonder that we are. However such reasoning only accounts for a single dimension in a multi dimensional problem, yes we exsist, but only because this universe is specifically made for us... what does this mean? This is one of the primary motivators for the multi verse theory, every law of physics is arbitrary, both its existence and it's value is arbitrary, sometimes it's relationship with other properties of physics is arbitrary as well, but all abstract data types just so happen to exsist and be perfectly fixed at values that allow everything you understand (atoms, elements, forces, and hence life) to be. The multi verse theory is actually not a scientific theory but a philosophical one that tackles this problem by saying that there are an infinite amount of universes each with different values for physical properties as well as completely different physical properties (remember everything is arbitrary). Why an infinite amount of universes? Because the universe is so fragile and any alteration in any property would mean a lack of existence. And there are infinite ways the properties of the universe may be. Thus the universe didn't occur by chance, we did not occur by chance, this universe exsists either because God exsists or because everything exists. If you abandon the idea of God it is mandatory that you assume that all things exsist as it is the only explanation of our universe. We are here because this realm can support consciousness thus we are here via consciousness bias. We are a single subsystem in the system of everything. This seems like a perfectly fine explanation for human beings, until one realizes the potential for the whole system. If consciousness may exsist in a single instance of a universe on such a small scale then imagine what may manifest in the system. Manifest is not really the right word though considering time cannot be accounted for assuming there is no absolute beginning. Thus whatever had been manifesting in everything had forever to do it...but how do we know that something had to be manifesting? We know this because at least this universe favors organisation and increased complexity as time manifests (look this up its pretty interesting). It is the nature of this universe to grow in complexity and by definition it is the nature of an infinite amount of universes (note I do realize the term universe refers to everything including the multi verse and what i should be saying is realm or what not) to grow in complexity. Thus if consciousness manifests in a subsystem that favors increasing complexity then it would also manifest in a system favoring the same, but to a much grander, infinite scale. Now how do we know that this consciousness, this God created man and that it wasn't what was previously stated that created man? Well as I said God did not manifest in the system as time is not relevant, thus God always had been. Therefore the system had always been organized, had always been conscious and everything that exsists in every subsystem is not just due to God, but a part of God. Such a being would not rule the universe but literally be the universe. He would have a consciousness truelly infinite, he would make beings in his own image that are also manifestations or even echos of the environment like us humans. But then again I'm likely wrong as the world is a strange place. But it's food for thought :)

 

[charlie]

Not necessarily, but I wouldn't appreciate my memories being tampered with either.

I guess you will need to take that up with God. :)

If someone is evil and serves evil, I sure don't want to be stuck with bad memories in the Eternity when I am going to be in Paradise.

 

[SarahBeara]

Of course, God sets the "kings".

Cool, so what would a Clinton win 'mean' in the grand scheme of things?

 

[charlie]

Cool, so what would a Clinton win 'mean' in the grand scheme of things?

I have seen some say Lamentations. But she is not going to win so it does not matter.

 

[charlie]

Martin is a chill guy and tends to ramble quite a bit, i hope it doesn't bother.

He is right about satan getting the entire world to worship him, however I think he is wrong about the beasts. If you understand what the 4 horns are, aka the 4 hidden dynasties then you will understand how satan is able to control the entire world and lead everyone right into his hands when he shows up and tells everyone he is god.

 

[charlie]

@damngoodcoffee the four hidden dynasties are:

-political/media
-educational
-financial
-religion

 

[Ideonaut]

a Hillary Clinton presidency, from my ancap perspective, is better for delegitimizing the state

What kind of common sense does that make--allow the presently in power forces of totalitarianism that Hillary is a puppet of to consolidate their death-grip on society and that will be good? Is this based on the idea that surely "good" (anarchy) will triumph in the end? A more likely outcome is that evil will rule and freedom be snuffed out for untold ages, as in the European dark ages' rule by the totalitarian Catholic church. The idea that all government ("the state") is bad is ridiculous and false to observable fact. Through good govt. we establish and protect our rights, freedom, safety, well-being. If Trump wins, we'll experience much better govt..

 

[Kyle M]

What kind of common sense does that make--allow the presently in power forces of totalitarianism that Hillary is a puppet of to consolidate their death-grip on society and that will be good? Is this based on the idea that surely "good" (anarchy) will triumph in the end? A more likely outcome is that evil will rule and freedom be snuffed out for untold ages, as in the European dark ages' rule by the totalitarian Catholic church. The idea that all government ("the state") is bad is ridiculous and false to observable fact. Through good govt. we establish and protect our rights, freedom, safety, well-being. If Trump wins, we'll experience much better govt..

Hillary Clinton is so tin-eared and toxic that she destroys everything she touches. The moral tragedy of our time is the mass murder in the Middle East being perpetrated by the USA and other states. Likewise, domestically, the collusion of the Federal Reserve, major banks, Federal Treasury etc. have consolidated wealth and power into those same war hawks. This system, in my opinion, is much safer in the hands of a smooth criminal like Barack Obama, than it is in the hands of a palpably dishonest Hillary clinton. Since I believe these are the worst things of our times, I welcome their fall, as most Romans welcomed the fall of the Roman Empire.

The state is the institutionalized monopoly of the legal use of violence over a given geographic area, like the mafia but with the appearance of legitimacy, so yes i think it is necessarily bad. The only good governance is self-governance, not the state.

 

[Drareg]

@charlie
If its all written in a book what is going to happen why are you and others trying to influence the outcome?
If Christ dies for sinners according to your books,all will be saved?
If we are all currently sinners we all are worshipping Satan right now?

What then was the point of writing a book that has the story outcome decided already and letting us live through it? Is this explained in the book.

 

[Constatine]

@charlie
If its all written in a book what is going to happen why are you and others trying to influence the outcome?
If Christ dies for sinners according to your books,all will be saved?
If we are all currently sinners we all are worshipping Satan right now?

What then was the point of writing a book that has the story outcome decided already and letting us live through it? Is this explained in the book.

I'm not a strong advocate of the bible but what's wrong with this? Is it somehow bad telling a prophecy and then allowing people to live through it? Also why would being a sinner equate to worshipping Satan? Also would Charlie's answer or lack of answers really prove or disprove anything to either of you? Sometimes the answer is "I don't know" but such an answer does not inheritly prove the other side right, it simply illustrates a gap in knowledge or perceived knowledge. In fact I'm quite sure that anything either of you say won't be right because why would it? Humble yourselves people such religious arguments only test debate skills.

 

[charlie]

If its all written in a book what is going to happen why are you and others trying to influence the outcome?

Anyone who thinks they can influence the outcome is quite mistaken.

If Christ dies for sinners according to your books,all will be saved?

Not all will be saved, some will choose to serve evil. You have free will.

If we are all currently sinners we all are worshipping Satan right now?

No. Where would you get that assumption?

What then was the point of writing a book that has the story outcome decided already and letting us live through it? Is this explained in the book.

Free will. Someone put it this way, the beginning and the end have been written(and certain points in history), you get to write the rest.

 

[Drareg]

Anyone who thinks they can influence the outcome is quite mistaken.

Not all will be saved, some will chose to serve evil. You have free will.

No. Where would you get that assumption?

Free will. Someone put it this way, the beginning and the end have been written(and certain points in history), you get to write the rest. Which Father are you going to serve?

So why people are promoting it so much if you can't influence the outcome?

I don't see where it specifically says in the bible you have free will to choose which side your on at the end of times specifically.Can you quote this?
What if I don't want a side?

Of course we are all sinners ? Porn,sweatshop clothes,western lifestyles requiring other countries poverty etc.

It says in the bible Christ dies for your sins,why then are people going to be killed ?

How can you have freewill if the story is already written? For the story to work we must all be doing what we are doing now? This isn't free will.

Where in the bible does it say the beginning and end are written and you get to choose the middle? Is there a quote?
what's the point of the middle if the main choice is at the end?

If the end is written then according to that quote my choice is already made?

 

[Drareg]

I'm not a strong advocate of the bible but what's wrong with this? Is it somehow bad telling a prophecy and then allowing people to live through it? Also why would being a sinner equate to worshipping Satan? Also would Charlie's answer or lack of answers really prove or disprove anything to either of you? Sometimes the answer is "I don't know" but such an answer does not inheritly prove the other side right, it simply illustrates a gap in knowledge or perceived knowledge. In fact I'm quite sure that anything either of you say won't be right because why would it? Humble yourselves people such religious arguments only test debate skills.

Your definitely an advocate for the bible imo.
If you are all knowing and powerful its seems pointless to tell a story to everyone and let them live through it,you could just bestow the wisdom upon them,it must have been done for entertainment purposes perhaps?

Satan is the cause of all sins,masturbating to pornography is an extreme form of worship to Satan by bible standards,the porn today is alarming to an atheist.

By your logic or lack thereof we shouldn't try to solve a gap in knowledge,if anything either of us say isn't right yet the book supposedly tells what is right. This is what we are discussing.

 

[WestCoaster]

The ground up theory only makes sense in one's own head, its actually akin to a mental disorder. If a God who creates doesn't exsist then there is no need to compromise with such a perspective. I believe in God because I once read that a great way to find God is to ask him to reveal himself to you via showing you a sign. The sign should be as ridiculous as possible so that there is zero chance it is born of sensory bias. An example of this is "show me a meatball riding a horse"... lol. This is a quick and easy way of seeing if God is real or not. There is really no accurate reality other than personal experience (though personal experience is not necessarily accurate reality). What if the world is flat, China doesn't exsist, and ninja sharks rule the world but you just don't know it? This is of course a silly example but in general most of the things one is most sure of are at least partially wrong. The world becomes wherever the mind is immersed and this creates very narrow minded behaviors and insular people. We can never know the world, we can only draw our maps of it in our head, but once one knows that the map is not the terrain the world opens up.

I used to be an Atheist, but that has since changed, because ironically, of the 3 'silly' examples you listed, one of them can be conclusively and scientifically proven true with technology here right on earth, to the point anybody can do it relatively easily. Also, knowing that the Bible specifically states this, it throws more chaos into the mix because now one can take the stance of "If the Bible told the truth about that, why would it lie about anything else?" "If the Bible has been re-written countless times to fit one's own agenda, why would that particular truth remain? Why would the fabricators keep a passage in that completely dismantles their entire agenda?"

This becomes both a sticking point and a revelation or relief with some people because it completely turns their world upside down. If we further look at what Charlie stated as the 4 hidden dynasties: Politics/Media, Education, Religion, and financial, all can and have been used as tools for control. Things like education have been used to indoctrinate us since a very young age. Politics gives us the illusion of having a voice (yet everything is controlled), while Media feeds us what they want us to see. Lastly financial is a mere tool to enslave the populace under a system that requires us obey or be outcasted.

This is why it makes me think we are in the end of times and a lot of what Charlie states seems to make sense. Things like the current election; people think they have a voice, yet it doesn't matter how you vote, Clinton will not win. It will either be Trump, or Obama will re-take office based on some loophole dreamt up by the elite. Clinton is a continuation of status quo, while Trump gives the illusion of hope. Obama if he remains in office will be done on the illusion of terrorism and/or threat from Trump.

Whats that quote? The world's a state and all of us are actors? Seems to be true

 

[Mountain]

With all due respect I think it is a bit foolish to trust the bible whole heartedly, to trust the general discourse or any discourse involving religion. It is even foolish to trust scientists who say there is no God... strange how science now seems to promote ideas vs search for truth. The only way you may learn truth is through experience. Thought experiments will never do you much good in the end. Look at the world with your own two eyes, if you wonder if God is real consult God, don't flood the discourse with God is or isn't real because...(I doubt you would be right anyhow). I personally believe in God because one day I asked him to show me a lion and a rainbow over a mountain as two signs that he is listening (it was a sunny day). After praying this I walked into my room, sat down, looked to my left and saw a skittles was randomly on top of my monitor and the monitor's background was a mountain. I thought "thats cool" then I immediately walked outside my room and saw the neat lion poster they had just put up. Many things like this have happened to me in my life and I have to say I have not yet had a prayer unanswered or even unfulfilled in full. But who knows I could be completely lying, the best thing to do in a religious context is to abandon religion and interact with God in a very personal way. Experience God, ask for a sign so crazy that it is obvious it is him. Aside from knowing his existence I know nothing of him, any information I get regarding him will not be of the discourse but of him. There are so many lies and distortions in the world I urge you to abandon assumptions and live off experience.

I liked reading this, thanks for sharing

 

[charlie]

Things like the current election; people think they have a voice, yet it doesn't matter how you vote, Clinton will not win.

But this time we do have a real choice. :) God said he will send the 4 carpenters to "fray" those 4 hidden dynasties at the end. He also said he would send a deadly wound to the political system. Hello Trump.

Trump/Pence = Trumpets

 

[charlie]

...the God of all religions,

Well that's the thing, satan is controlling the religions here on earth at this time. He has complete control of the religions. So, if your religion does not tell you that satan comes right before the true God comes and tells everyone that he is God. Then satan has you right where he wants you.

Now imagine how the true God is gonna feel when He shows up and most the world is worshiping satan.