Low Toxin Diet Grant Genereux's Theory Of Vitamin A Toxicity

[lebanesegirl]

What would you guys think is the cause of keratosis pilaris? I've read that a lot of people get rid of theirs by applying retinol on the affected areas or by increasing vitamin A consumption. If it's not a vitamin A deficiency then what could be the root cause? I've bought and tried all of the topical solutions on the market but there must be a way to fix the problem internally. Would greatly appreciate any advice/ opinion/ even anecdotal evidence.

 

[thomas200]

I have low body fat too. What have your detox experiences been?

Mental:
brain fog
bad memory
fatigue
depression/anxiety
personality changes
mood swings

Physical:
dry, bleeding knuckles
coarse hair and hair shedding
increased collagen
red, swollen lips
bloat
skin color looked pretty dull, almost gray-ish/pale
cold hands and feet

Thankfully, 90% of these detox symptoms are gone after nearly 7 months of strict low/no A. I started doing lots of exercise lately and I can't describe how much that has helped

my remaining detox symptoms are the change in hair texture and mood swings

Edit: IMO, aerobic exercises would be best in detoxing (especially in the sun). I personally like switching it up between high intensity interval training and jogging a few miles, i occasionally do pull ups and push ups

Edit2: i left one out.. OCD. i had very strong OCD for a month or 2 while detoxing, can't complain though. My room has never looked so neat

 

[Orion]

I always thought my bloodshot, reddish rimmed eyes were normal but now I look closely at everyone’s eyes and see bright whites and no reddishness to the eyelash area.

Took me 6 months of very low/zero VA for the daily bloodshot eyes to fade away. Also there is a yellowish/brownish film that is slowly fading back from the pupil to the outer iris, revealing the bright blue colored iris of my childhood.

 

[Orion]

If it's not a vitamin A deficiency then what could be the root cause?

I think it is the opposite, vitamin A overload. A whole host of skin issues seem to disappear on low VA. Right now this is all anecdotal from the minority trialing this.

Best test would be to experiment on yourself, no cost or magic pill, just need to be vigilant of your VA intake.

 

[Orion]

Case about the livers protective ability to store large amounts of vitamin A before issues arise. Also importance of quality protein in the diet, could be the zinc and taurine.

https://www.gastrojournal.org/article/0016-5085(82)90132-9/pdf

 

[Blossom]

Case about the livers protective ability to store large amounts of vitamin A before issues arise. Also importance of quality protein in the diet, could be the zinc and taurine.

https://www.gastrojournal.org/article/0016-5085(82)90132-9/pdf

Excellent case study, thank you.

 

[Dolomite]

That’s great @Dolomite, I’m glad you’re doing well.

Thanks, @blossum I am glad I decided to try this. It is easy and low cost and a person will know in days if A is causing some problems.

 

[Dolomite]

Took me 6 months of very low/zero VA for the daily bloodshot eyes to fade away. Also there is a yellowish/brownish film that is slowly fading back from the pupil to the outer iris, revealing the bright blue colored iris of my childhood.

Thanks, @Orion for the approximate time to see some improvement. It is wonderful your eye color has brightened. It is almost like the fountain of youth.

 

[Collden]

Case about the livers protective ability to store large amounts of vitamin A before issues arise. Also importance of quality protein in the diet, could be the zinc and taurine.

https://www.gastrojournal.org/article/0016-5085(82)90132-9/pdf

Cool study, I wonder though how he was able to safely eliminate approximately 226 000 IU of VA per day after ceasing the supplements, while still consuming 4000 IU per day.

 

[charlie]

Watermelon season is here.

 

[Collden]

Case about the livers protective ability to store large amounts of vitamin A before issues arise. Also importance of quality protein in the diet, could be the zinc and taurine.

https://www.gastrojournal.org/article/0016-5085(82)90132-9/pdf

The more I think about this study the more I'm having trouble reconciling it with Genereux's theory. How could it be possible to day after day eliminate such huge amounts of VA, like 100-fold the normal RDA, if VA released from the liver is so toxic?

And if its possible to eliminate VA this quickly while continuing to consume more than the RDA, how come it should take us months to years of zero VA intake to eliminate the far more modest amounts of excess VA that the average person has stored?

 

[InChristAlone]

The more I think about this study the more I'm having trouble reconciling it with Genereux's theory. How could it be possible to day after day eliminate such huge amounts of VA, like 100-fold the normal RDA, if VA released from the liver is so toxic?

And if its possible to eliminate VA this quickly while continuing to consume more than the RDA, how come it should take us months to years of zero VA intake to eliminate the far more modest amounts of excess VA that the average person has stored?

I think Dr Garrett Smith would say the liver is still toxic in that person.

 

[Collden]

I think Dr Garrett Smith would say the liver is still toxic in that person.

No doubt his liver was toxic, they even confirm he had cholestatic liver disease due to the VA.

What bothers me is how he was able to safely eliminate all that excess in such a short time frame without dying or at least developing severe Hypervitaminosis symptoms, he eliminated in a little over 2 months more than 10 times the total amount an average person has stored in his liver.

His serum VA levels did more than triple during that period. I suppose its possible that he got really, really sick during this time and it simply wasn't reported in the paper, but then again his serum levels never really went above the normal range.

 

[Orion]

No doubt his liver was toxic, they even confirm he had cholestatic liver disease due to the VA.

What bothers me is how he was able to safely eliminate all that excess in such a short time frame without dying or at least developing severe Hypervitaminosis symptoms, he eliminated in a little over 2 months more than 10 times the total amount an average person has stored in his liver.

His serum VA levels did more than triple during that period. I suppose its possible that he got really, really sick during this time and it simply wasn't reported in the paper, but then again his serum levels never really went above the normal range.

Late 1970's there would be no glyphosate interfering in a big way, but good questions.

 

[sunraiser]

The more I think about this study the more I'm having trouble reconciling it with Genereux's theory. How could it be possible to day after day eliminate such huge amounts of VA, like 100-fold the normal RDA, if VA released from the liver is so toxic?

And if its possible to eliminate VA this quickly while continuing to consume more than the RDA, how come it should take us months to years of zero VA intake to eliminate the far more modest amounts of excess VA that the average person has stored?

It doesn't have to be the VA that's the true issue, just a cofactor VA "asks for" that might be in a really extreme internal imbalance.

The body may need to reach some form of equilibrium before being able to rebuild proper metabolism.

VA being implicated doesn't mean it's the root cause, although that appears to be the current position of many.

 

[Collden]

Late 1970's there would be no glyphosate interfering in a big way, but good questions.

The guy was something of a medical abnormality anyway, having stored like 20 times as much liver VA as an average person. He eliminated about 50% of it in 71 days which is not too far off from Grants number of 0.5% per day, I guess when you have such an astronomical excess stored away it can actually accelerate dumping.

What is clear though is that his body absolutely did not want to store that much VA, its like as soon as he brought down his VA intake to normal it just tried to get rid of it all as quickly as possible. The guy also only had a BMI of 18, which at the age of 62 indicates he was pretty damn sickly. Like cachexia around that age is defined as anything below BMI 22.

His intake really wasn't that extreme either, like 50 000 IU per day with supplements, I calculated I got around 80 000 IUs per day from foods alone for around a year while doing Matt Stone HED, and then later like 30 000 IU/day in my high-calorie Peat phase. Probably there are many in this forum who had a similar intake for many years.

It doesn't have to be the VA that's the true issue, just a cofactor VA "asks for" that might be in a really extreme internal imbalance.

The body may need to reach some form of equilibrium before being able to rebuild proper metabolism.

VA being implicated doesn't mean it's the root cause, although that appears to be the current position of many.

I dont understand, what are you trying to say with regards to this case study?

 

[Collden]

I also wonder whether individual variations in how the body deals with excess VA can account for the varied ways in which chronic excess affects different people. Like if you have a greater propensity to stow away any excess VA in the liver you will not experience as many peripheral symptoms in the skin/eyes/gut/glands, but you will instead develop impaired liver function. Whereas someone with less propensity to store liver VA will experience more acute peripheral symptoms from excess VA while his liver will be relatively spared.

Personally even though I've massively overdosed on VA for years I never had major issues with skin, eyes, gut or joints, but did develop sluggish and enlarged liver with hypothyroidism. Now on the 5th to 6th day on a low-VA diet I'm for the first time starting to get peripheral symptoms like burning/sensitive skin and dry eyes.

 

[sunraiser]

The guy was something of a medical abnormality anyway, having stored like 20 times as much liver VA as an average person. He eliminated about 50% of it in 71 days which is not too far off from Grants number of 0.5% per day, I guess when you have such an astronomical excess stored away it can actually accelerate dumping.

What is clear though is that his body absolutely did not want to store that much VA, its like as soon as he brought down his VA intake to normal it just tried to get rid of it all as quickly as possible. The guy also only had a BMI of 18, which at the age of 62 indicates he was pretty damn sickly. Like cachexia around that age is defined as anything below BMI 22.

His intake really wasn't that extreme either, like 50 000 IU per day with supplements, I calculated I got around 80 000 IUs per day from foods alone for around a year while doing Matt Stone HED, and then later like 30 000 IU/day in my high-calorie Peat phase. Probably there are many in this forum who had a similar intake for many years.


I dont understand, what are you trying to say with regards to this case study?

In that you're specifically looking at VA clearance as a marker of a return to health, when in actuality the imbalance that causes poor VA tolerance could take a longer time for the body to deal with, be it mineral imbalance, heavy metals, or some kind of hpa axis dysfunction recovery.

The body will always seek equilibrium but in reality we don't know all the factors at play in bringing about such a healthy state. Human knowledge doesn't provide close to a full context, although many profit driven and narcissistic scientists might behave that way.

 

[Collden]

In that you're specifically looking at VA clearance as a marker of a return to health, when in actuality the imbalance that causes poor VA tolerance could take a longer time for the body to deal with, be it mineral imbalance, heavy metals, or some kind of hpa axis dysfunction recovery.

The body will always seek equilibrium but in reality we don't know all the factors at play in bringing about such a healthy state. Human knowledge doesn't provide close to a full context, although many profit driven and narcissistic scientists might behave that way.

Still not sure I understand... is your point that when people like Grant or Garrett are giving time frames to recover ones health after chronic VA excess, they are not only referring to the time needed to eliminate the excess VA, but also the time needed to repair cumulative inflammatory damage and restore homeostasis after the excess VA has been eliminated?

This makes sense, although at least in terms of liver function, judging from the labs in this case study there was a dramatic improvement in liver function that was completely concurrent with the progressive loss of VA from the liver.

Still, my question was about how its possible to clear 200 000+ IUs per day from the liver without experiencing very severe toxicity problems, although the paper doesn't provide info on whether the patient experienced side effects or not during this clearance period so its a moot point.

 

[sunraiser]

Still not sure I understand... is your point that when people like Grant or Garrett are giving time frames to recover ones health after chronic VA excess, they are not only referring to the time needed to eliminate the excess VA, but also the time needed to repair cumulative inflammatory damage and restore homeostasis after the excess VA has been eliminated?

This makes sense, although at least in terms of liver function, judging from the labs in this case study there was a dramatic improvement in liver function that was completely concurrent with the progressive loss of VA from the liver.

Still, my other question was about how its possible to clear 200 000+ IUs per day from the liver without experiencing very severe toxicity problems, although the paper doesn't provide info on whether the patient experienced side effects or not during this clearance period so its a moot point.

Grant and garrett are referring only to VA, I'm just saying it's unlikely to be the case in reality. But yes, basically your assertion is what I'm getting at.

I can't answer your specific question and I know my response was a little off at a tangent. I just wanted to chime in with a different philosophical approach.