What is the least harmful diabetes medication?

[healthiswellth]

What medication would be the least harmful (to prevent acute complications) while incorporating Supplements Etc. to address Diabetes long-term?

family 70 yo was on metformin for ~10 years, A1C of ~5.7. Recently diagnosed with lymphoma and given chemo/steroids. Steroids caused A1C to jump to 9- meanwhile metformin was replaced with insulin to prevent overburdening kidneys during chemo. Now chemo is finished, and on 10 units long-acting insulin 1x daily. Problem is cognitive impairment (from the CNS lymphoma) and refuses insulin shot.

Diet is mostly good. Milk, Cheese, honey, fruit, liver, cooked veggies, salad with fruit veggies, collagen, a couple of slices of sprouted bread (no oil)., butter coconut oil, a little brown sugar, and ice cream once in a while. Grape juice and OJ sometimes fresh squeezed, sometimes store bought— always mixed with collagen. Moderate exercise outdoors through the day.

Currently on continuous glucose monitor and here is what we have been trying:
Glycine with meals (~3g)
A little bit of cinnamon, black seeds, put in capsules (~500mg)
K2 - (innovix labs, 1-2 softgels (500 Mk4/100mk7 per softgel) used to takes 4-5 softgel but again compliance issues
D3 (5000 iu)
Theanine (100 mg 3x daily) ....this is mainly for mood (separate thread coming)
Magnesium threonate
B-complex advanced therapeutics

Positives:
Pomegranate drops BG by ~30 points instantly
Exercise drops BG by up to 80 points

BG in past week usually 200-350 through day. Morning is 180-220. Usually after meal somewhere in 300 - bring it back down to about 220 with exercise post meals ... except at night....

Prior to this past week BG was ~130-140 morning and 160-210 through the day.

Don’t know why BG shot up by so much, but thinking emotional stress maybe.....

Based on advice from other posts:
I am ordering nia-cel 200 (With tmg), thiamine 100mg, biotin (I have 10,000 mcg)
... thinking about ordering r5p and p5p individually as well. On top of the b-complex. I have UN-fortified brewers yeast and trying to hide it in soup.....again compliance issues due to cognitive impairment.

Anyway, worried since refusing insulin past 3 days bc doesn’t want shots....think I need to ask doctor for Pill....don’t want to go on metformin Bc side effects of mitochondrial dysfunction ( and we’re just getting over cancer)

I’ve been told glipozide, januvia, some other options and will Look them Up, and was wondering if anyone has experience/suggestions?

Thank you ???

 

[Perry Staltic]

Can't vouch for either of these, but from what I've read olive leaf extract and bacillus coagulens might be worth researching.

9 Promising Health Benefits of Bacillus coagulans - SelfHacked

B. coagulans is being researched for cholesterol, IBS, arthritis, and muscle recovery. Read on to learn about this promising probiotic.

selfhacked.com

 

[healthiswellth]

Thank you- just ordered olive leaf extract (Zade-vital brand - Made in turkey- has 500mg with 20% oleuropin)- this was the therapeutic dosage in a study on the BG effects of Olive leaf shared in another post) - will update after trying.... for anyone who has used this , should we start off with the 500mg (3 capsules) or work our way up ? Also plan on monitoring blood pressure since family is on losartan and this can also lower Bp.

 

[Ben.]

I dont have diabetes, or atleast not that i know of, and while i realy love the taste/smell of olive leaf, it realy does kill off stuff in the digestive trac. For me that meant impaired digestion unfortunately.

So while i can't give you specific advise to your situation, all i can say is ... you prolly want to start slow ...

 

[PaRa]

caloric deficit

as simple as that

 

[healthiswellth]

The cancer actually took him from 150lb to 115...weight/muscle loss. we’re slowly regaining weight now at 138... height 5’6

 

[youngsinatra]

Metformin can cause thiamine deficiency and lactic acid build-up, which itself can promote cancer profoundly. It's also known to disrupt mitochondrial respiration.

I'd do 2 grams of pure thiamin HCL per day, split into 2 doses, each dose with some magnesium.
He probably has difficulty oxidizing glucose efficiently so Idealabs Pyrucet might help with that.

I'd check his vitamin D level on a blood with 2-3 days of discontinued vitamin D supplementation to avoid false higher readings. With the known vitamin D level I would then adjust the daily dose.

 

[Peatness]

Curcumin and Diabetes: A Systematic Review

Turmeric (Curcuma longa), a rhizomatous herbaceous perennial plant of the ginger family, has been used for the treatment of diabetes in Ayurvedic and traditional Chinese medicine. The active component of turmeric, curcumin, has caught attention as a potential ...

www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov

 

[Perry Staltic]

Thank you- just ordered olive leaf extract (Zade-vital brand - Made in turkey- has 500mg with 20% oleuropin)- this was the therapeutic dosage in a study on the BG effects of Olive leaf shared in another post) - will update after trying.... for anyone who has used this , should we start off with the 500mg (3 capsules) or work our way up ? Also plan on monitoring blood pressure since family is on losartan and this can also lower Bp.

This is the individual that mentioned olive leaf extract. If you have a twitter account you could ask him, or search his feed

https://twitter.com/DGrouf

Just looked at his feed. Apparently he's going to post something on diabetes soon.


View: https://twitter.com/DGrouf/status/1461552914598703106

 

[healthiswellth]

Metformin can cause thiamine deficiency and lactic acid build-up, which itself can promote cancer profoundly. It's also known to disrupt mitochondrial respiration.

I'd do 2 grams of pure thiamin HCL per day, split into 2 doses, each dose with some magnesium.
He probably has difficulty oxidizing glucose efficiently so Idealabs Pyrucet might help with that.

I'd check his vitamin D level on a blood with 2-3 days of discontinued vitamin D supplementation to avoid false higher readings. With the known vitamin D level I would then adjust the daily dose.

Thank you, his vitD reading came at 27 (this is with 5000 iu D3) I believe haidut posted somewhere that 10,000iu D3 can cause cancer cells to revert to normal — since he is low we will be increasing to 10,000iu.

@Pina He is taking 95% std. Curcumin 527mg capsule with 5.3mg piperine—- again he used to take it 3x daily but now reduced to 1 x —-
If I get a large pill With higher dosage, it’s difficult to swallow. Small pills means he has to take multiple times a day which is cumbersome....if he was mentally his old self this would be no problem, but we are also trying to help him regain his mental faculties. (Aphasia, apraxia, short-term memory loss)... prior to this diagnosis he was high-functioning mentally and physically.

@Perry Staltic - will look through it, Since this is non-Hodgkin CNS lymphoma-he just finished chemotherapy—But they say this is notorious for coming back— we are going to do MRI soon to see if the treatment was effective-but his glucose needs to be under control to do that. His mri showed the tumor was gone after 1/3 of thE chemo sessions but there were flair hyperintensities on mri which they couldn’t be sure why— progression of disease? post-treatment change?
I found a study that showed gadolinium deposition in brain from mri also presents flairs on Mri. We will do testing to see his Levels.

Interesting note— the 3rd session they gave a lower dose of chemo agent, BUT added 2 antibiotics for infection that appeared on chest X-ray. After this session is when they did MRI that showed no tumor. I read many studies that show antibiotics Enhance effects of chemo. Other parts of his regimen included sodium bicarbonate and Folinic acid And Benadryl.

 

[youngsinatra]

Yes that fits perfectly with my experience that 1000 IU of D3 will raise vitamin D by 5 ng/ml on average.

 

[healthiswellth]

Thank you everyone for your helpful comments.
Updates:

BG reading are a little better than before. Fasting is in 180-190.
Post-prandial stays below 300.
***Guavas also drop BG by about 30 points***

We incorporated 500mg Olive leaf 1x daily, 10,000mcg biotin, 500mg solgar thiamine hcl 3x daily with meal, Switched from innovix labs k2 to Carlson 5mg. Switched from 5000 to 10,000 iu D3.

I ordered niacel 200 But found that it is NR instead of niacinamide — I had read that this is not good for people with cancer/history of cancer.

Prior to these additions, I forgot to add he also takes 81mg aspirin...thinking to increase this.

I’m going to find a biotin brand that has 15mg or 20mg bc I can’t get him to take so many pills - so 1 pill with higher dose works better.

The b-complex (Integrative therapeutics) has 100mg niacinamide per 2 caps (they used to have inositol hexaniacinate but I guess they changed the formula). I don’t know if that’s enough or if I should get a separate dose. I contacted them to see how much of the B2 is R5P and how much of the b6 is p5p but they said can’t reveal bc it’s proprietary.

I have ordered food-based chromium from Nutrigold (since the studies showed biotin works with the addition of chromium). Also ordered KAL magnesium taurate + (mood, mag deficiency)— this brand includes 25mg P5P and 10mg of combined rosemary, turmeric, ginger, bioperine. Organic dried orange peel (for the naringin).

Will be ordering pyrucet— are there any other idealabs Supplements you recommend in addition to (or as a replacement for) the current stack ( the reason I ask is I believe their supps are mainly used topically? So that might help with our current situation of non-compliance in taking large # of pills.

Two things:

Respiratory rate is 28-30 per min when sleeping. I’m reading and trying to incorporate Hans’ recommendations to increase CO2.

Since 1.5 weeks Increased fatigue and gets sleepy after every meal even though sleeps well (7.5-9 hrs) through the night. Any ideas?

Thank you all

 

[healthiswellth]

Also, he doesn’t like ACV or coffee. We do 3-5 g glycine per meal as collagen mixed in drinks , it doesn’t seem to be doing much but we’ll continue this for the protein.

Also trying to incorporate Hans’ recommendations on lowering cortisol bc

It seems like ~180/190 is his set point so Even if he hasn’t eaten, BG starts to go up When it gets to this point, then upon eating some fruit it goes back down.

Urine Ketone test always negative
Doctors said his body is producing enough insulin ( test result 10) but he is having trouble utilizing it.

I know I’m taking a Silver bullet approach to this right now to avoid acute complications, and I need to find the cause (per @yerrag ‘s very informative posts) ... so I’m trying to collect/analyze data with the ultimate goal of Finding/addressing the cause.

 

[Explorer]

Meldonium, Niacin, Aspirin, Glycine

 

[Dr. B]

Thank you, his vitD reading came at 27 (this is with 5000 iu D3) I believe haidut posted somewhere that 10,000iu D3 can cause cancer cells to revert to normal — since he is low we will be increasing to 10,000iu.

@Pina He is taking 95% std. Curcumin 527mg capsule with 5.3mg piperine—- again he used to take it 3x daily but now reduced to 1 x —-
If I get a large pill With higher dosage, it’s difficult to swallow. Small pills means he has to take multiple times a day which is cumbersome....if he was mentally his old self this would be no problem, but we are also trying to help him regain his mental faculties. (Aphasia, apraxia, short-term memory loss)... prior to this diagnosis he was high-functioning mentally and physically.

@Perry Staltic - will look through it, Since this is non-Hodgkin CNS lymphoma-he just finished chemotherapy—But they say this is notorious for coming back— we are going to do MRI soon to see if the treatment was effective-but his glucose needs to be under control to do that. His mri showed the tumor was gone after 1/3 of thE chemo sessions but there were flair hyperintensities on mri which they couldn’t be sure why— progression of disease? post-treatment change?
I found a study that showed gadolinium deposition in brain from mri also presents flairs on Mri. We will do testing to see his Levels.

Interesting note— the 3rd session they gave a lower dose of chemo agent, BUT added 2 antibiotics for infection that appeared on chest X-ray. After this session is when they did MRI that showed no tumor. I read many studies that show antibiotics Enhance effects of chemo. Other parts of his regimen included sodium bicarbonate and Folinic acid And Benadryl.

piperine has issues, does it actually improve curcumin absorption anyay or is it just marketing

caloric deficit

as simple as that

that might cause diabetes

I dont have diabetes, or atleast not that i know of, and while i realy love the taste/smell of olive leaf, it realy does kill off stuff in the digestive trac. For me that meant impaired digestion unfortunately.

So while i can't give you specific advise to your situation, all i can say is ... you prolly want to start slow ...

what brand did you use, so you think the antibiotic effects are too strong, and similar to prescription antibiotics?

 

[AdoTintor]

If all else fails perhaps you could try DHT:

DHT can stop aging of the pancreatic beta-cells (insulin-producing) – To Extract Knowledge from Matter

haidut.me

 

[healthiswellth]

Many years ago, I remember reading that EGCG, black pepper, and fat increases bioavailability of curcumin…
I did a quick search and found this : Turmeric and Green Tea: A Recipe for the Treatment of B-Chronic Lymphocytic Leukemia

(This specific study is relevant to me as fam is in lymphoma remission)

This and a couple of other studies that suggest curcumin and EGCG concurrently may antagonize each other’s effects but taking EGCG before curcumin might allow you to reap the benefits of both…
we ran out of our current curcumin supplement and I was thinking to get Longvida— it supposedly crosses blood brain barrier more effectively than theracurmin…

 

[healthiswellth]

If all else fails perhaps you could try DHT:

DHT can stop aging of the pancreatic beta-cells (insulin-producing) – To Extract Knowledge from Matter

haidut.me

Thank you- I am afraid to give that high a dose of DHT - fam is elderly-kidney function a little low and on INH for latent tb - scared to overload his system-so I’m trying things one at a time slowly building up-But thanks for the find, I’m currently going through Hans’ list on how to increase DHT.

 

[healthiswellth]

Good news is that fam started taking his long-acting insulin. So what I’ve noticed is blood glucose is (now with increased dose) around 140-150 immediately upon waking but by the time he gets ready and sits down to breakfast- which is about 30-45 mins later, the reading has climbed to 170-180. So I’m guessing this is cortisol-induced. Post-prandial numbers are looking a little better too (I’m guessing combo of everything we're taking and meal portion is smaller —not intentionally, less appetite than before)….weight is staying stable. I’m trying to make up for the lost calories during meals by adding more snacks through the day ( usually fruit, fresh juice with collagen, healthy ice-cream).

Next A1C check will probably be January so I will keep updating.

 

[Regina]

Metformin can cause thiamine deficiency and lactic acid build-up, which itself can promote cancer profoundly. It's also known to disrupt mitochondrial respiration.

I'd do 2 grams of pure thiamin HCL per day, split into 2 doses, each dose with some magnesium.
He probably has difficulty oxidizing glucose efficiently so Idealabs Pyrucet might help with that.

I'd check his vitamin D level on a blood with 2-3 days of discontinued vitamin D supplementation to avoid false higher readings. With the known vitamin D level I would then adjust the daily dose.

I was thinking vit D, pyrucet, thiamine and cortinon.