What About Sprouted Bread Products?

[marcar72]

.... like Silver Hills products? I gotta have some bread or I"m gonna freak out it seems, lol. So anyways I've tried the buns for cheeseburgers and cokes, and they're amazing and pretty hearty too! Seems like my guts are happy with some bread on a regular basis, if you catch my drift!!, lol.... :p

https://silverhillsbakery.ca/fresh-oven-new-sprouted-ancient-grain-breads/

 

[schultz]

Probably a lot better than unsprouted, unsoured bread.

I personally make traditional sourdough bread for my wife and kids so they can enjoy life a little bit and not subsist off of lattes like I do. I eat it from time to time, especially after it comes out of the oven as it's so good when it's warm. Fresh sourdough has a cheese smell and is really good with butter on it.

My dough soaks usually from 16-20 hours I think. I make the dough around noonish and let it rise until around 8:00 and then I knead it and put it in a banneton or a pullman pan to rise overnight and cook it in the morning. If I used a banneton then I put the dough in a clay cloche to cook it, which makes it really good! I always experiment and my current thing to do is to use coconut water instead of water. I've also been making sourdough bagels!

Ray mentions sprouts and sourdough bread here...

"RAY PEAT: All seeds, as far as I know, have some toxic effects. Many of them are built in by the plantto protect their offspring. And once the sprouting has begun, the seed detoxifies those intrinsic chemicals, especially if it's very well cooked, and then it becomes nutritious."

and here...

SOUND ENGINEER: Are you still there, caller? Well, the line is still open. Well, Dr. Peat, what about sprouted grains and sourdough. Does the pre-fermentation help?

RAY PEAT: Yeah. Just the soaking process, activating the enzymes in the dough, even if it’s ground and can’t sprout, 8 to 12 hours of being moistened allows the enzymes to activate the same process that would happen in sprouting. And so, the phytic acid, for example, is broken down into N-acetyl and phosphate and gluten is partly broken down, so that if you soak the bread too long, you don’t get a white fluffy loaf. You get sort of a crumbly…

and here...

RAY PEAT: Yeah.And it happens that phosphate, which you get in the grains, this might really be a part of why the fiber is carcinogenic from grains because seeds and grains and nuts are so rich in phosphorus and phosphate stimulates the breakdown of these soluble or indigestible fibers by bacteria and calcium blocks that phosphorolysis of the fibers by bacteria. And so,a high calcium, low phosphate diet goes with saturated fats in suppressing the toxic effects of the starches.

SARAH JOHANNESEN MURRAY: And what about fermenting grains, like traditional sourdough bread?

RAY PEAT: Yeah. That digests it. The longer it digests, the more it turns into a sprout. And the sprout is basically a little sugar and mostly proteins and water, where the starch is mostly indigestible proteins and starches with a high phosphate content.

 

[marcar72]

Probably a lot better than unsprouted, unsoured bread.

I personally make traditional sourdough bread for my wife and kids so they can enjoy life a little bit and not subsist off of lattes like I do. I eat it from time to time, especially after it comes out of the oven as it's so good when it's warm. Fresh sourdough has a cheese smell and is really good with butter on it.

My dough soaks usually from 16-20 hours I think. I make the dough around noonish and let it rise until around 8:00 and then I knead it and put it in a banneton or a pullman pan to rise overnight and cook it in the morning. If I used a banneton then I put the dough in a clay cloche to cook it, which makes it really good! I always experiment and my current thing to do is to use coconut water instead of water. I've also been making sourdough bagels!

Ray mentions sprouts and sourdough bread here...

"RAY PEAT: All seeds, as far as I know, have some toxic effects. Many of them are built in by the plantto protect their offspring. And once the sprouting has begun, the seed detoxifies those intrinsic chemicals, especially if it's very well cooked, and then it becomes nutritious."

and here...

SOUND ENGINEER: Are you still there, caller? Well, the line is still open. Well, Dr. Peat, what about sprouted grains and sourdough. Does the pre-fermentation help?

RAY PEAT: Yeah. Just the soaking process, activating the enzymes in the dough, even if it’s ground and can’t sprout, 8 to 12 hours of being moistened allows the enzymes to activate the same process that would happen in sprouting. And so, the phytic acid, for example, is broken down into N-acetyl and phosphate and gluten is partly broken down, so that if you soak the bread too long, you don’t get a white fluffy loaf. You get sort of a crumbly…

and here...

RAY PEAT: Yeah.And it happens that phosphate, which you get in the grains, this might really be a part of why the fiber is carcinogenic from grains because seeds and grains and nuts are so rich in phosphorus and phosphate stimulates the breakdown of these soluble or indigestible fibers by bacteria and calcium blocks that phosphorolysis of the fibers by bacteria. And so,a high calcium, low phosphate diet goes with saturated fats in suppressing the toxic effects of the starches.

SARAH JOHANNESEN MURRAY: And what about fermenting grains, like traditional sourdough bread?

RAY PEAT: Yeah. That digests it. The longer it digests, the more it turns into a sprout. And the sprout is basically a little sugar and mostly proteins and water, where the starch is mostly indigestible proteins and starches with a high phosphate content.

Wow, thanks for all this info! I recalled from a friend of mine that isn't into Peat but cereals and soy milk, yada, yada, yada. He was touting the benefits of sprouted grains even though his diet is terrible from a Peat perspective. Good to know info, thanks!!...

 

[schultz]

Wow, thanks for all this info! I recalled from a friend of mine that isn't into Peat but cereals and soy milk, yada, yada, yada. He was touting the benefits of sprouted grains even though his diet is terrible from a Peat perspective. Good to know info, thanks!!...

You're welcome!

I think 5-10% of you diet (a couple slices) as sourdough bread is not the end of the world, assuming the rest of the diet is pretty solid. Many years ago I used to eat bread with pate for lunch and I think that I may start doing that again. It would be a tasty way to eat liver! I have a pig that needs to be slaughtered soon so maybe I'll make pork liver pate. This pig has been fed on potatoes and sugar mostly and is probably insanely low in PUFA. I would bet good money on his fat being lower than 5% PUFA.

 

[shepherdgirl]

I personally make traditional sourdough bread for my wife and kids

Many years ago I used to eat bread with pate for lunch and I think that I may start doing that again. It would be a tasty way to eat liver! I have a pig that needs to be slaughtered soon so maybe I'll make pork liver pate.

@schultz - your kitchen rocks!

The longer it digests, the more it turns into a sprout. And the sprout is basically a little sugar and mostly proteins and water, where the starch is mostly indigestible proteins and starches with a high phosphate content. (Ray Peat)

Does this mean...that...that...sourdough bread is not starch??? So the only way it can make you fat is by de novo lipogenesis? So there are no persorption issues??? So if you made unenriched sourdough or sprouted grain bread, cookies, etc. it would act like... sugar???

 

[schultz]

Does this mean...that...that...sourdough bread is not starch??? So the only way it can make you fat is by de novo lipogenesis? So there are no persorption issues??? So if you made unenriched sourdough or sprouted grain bread, cookies, etc. it would act like... sugar???

Haha, well I think the type/stage of sprout Ray is talking about in that quote wouldn't be useful for making flour. I think he is just making a point about what happens to the seed... though I could be wrong, however I don't think bread could be made with such a sprout. There is a type of sprouting called preharvest sprouting where the kernels start sprouting on the plant before harvest due to excessive moisture. It degrades the starch because of increased α-amylase activity and is generally considered bad for baking with. I think when it happens they tend to feed this to animals as the crop is considered ruined. It probably makes excellent feed.

 

[shepherdgirl]

@schultz - i could not find any info on this, but i think you must be right. (I got a little carried away with Ray's quote, he he!) Using no-starch dough would probably be like trying to make flour out of dried bean sprouts. Blecch.

 

[G Forrest]

Probably a lot better than unsprouted, unsoured bread.

I personally make traditional sourdough bread for my wife and kids so they can enjoy life a little bit and not subsist off of lattes like I do. I eat it from time to time, especially after it comes out of the oven as it's so good when it's warm. Fresh sourdough has a cheese smell and is really good with butter on it.

My dough soaks usually from 16-20 hours I think. I make the dough around noonish and let it rise until around 8:00 and then I knead it and put it in a banneton or a pullman pan to rise overnight and cook it in the morning. If I used a banneton then I put the dough in a clay cloche to cook it, which makes it really good! I always experiment and my current thing to do is to use coconut water instead of water. I've also been making sourdough bagels!

Hi @schultz, do you use a sourdough starter for your bread? If so, is this something you can create at home or would you need to get a 'starter' from somewhere?

I've used the Jim Leahy method of bread making, which calls for a 12-18 hour rise, but uses yeast (not sure but yeast might be estrogenic?). So looking for non-yeast alternatives possibly.

Thanks,

 

[schultz]

Hi @schultz, do you use a sourdough starter for your bread? If so, is this something you can create at home or would you need to get a 'starter' from somewhere?

I've used the Jim Leahy method of bread making, which calls for a 12-18 hour rise, but uses yeast (not sure but yeast might be estrogenic?). So looking for non-yeast alternatives possibly.

Thanks,

Yah I use a starter. I got mine from someone in Canada (as I live in Canada). I've heard of people making their own starter but the process seems tricky and unpredictable.

I am unsure if quick yeast is more estrogenic than the yeast contained in a starter. It would be interesting to know!