Sudden and Crippling Depression

[PeskyPeater]

Also you still aren't saying what's harmful about loving God and loving our neighbor as ourself.

Well if you put it that way. This principle of loving an external driver of certain cause is actually an externalization, attributing things to outside causes. this kind of behavior can either improve or reduce productivity. Either way, because of the foundation of the monotheistic conception of a external ruler and the consequential implications of authoritarianism, they are implying the existence of a deity that has the potential to affect persons or events, leading to wishful thinking, misguidance or suppressing the natural free behavior responses of people

 

[InChristAlone]

I think that a cult that is based on delusions has the potential to become pathological disturbed movement. potentially harmful in the sense that the followers mindset is predictable, can be steered into certain directions, manipulated and used as a tool for bad intentions.

Any cult has the power to do that, including the cult of Ray Peat!

As far as Christianity being a cult. I'd highly disagree. The church isn't manipulating me at all, I'm free to attend, free to be involved or not, free to contribute my finances or not, free to live my life how I want. Do you want to see a typical Sunday at my church? We sing praises for 25 mins and then our pastor gives an edifying sermon for 40 mins. This last week was about disappointments and how God can use them to grow us as a person instead of us becoming bitter and angry. I'd like to know how that is controlling my life in a negative way?

 

[PeskyPeater]

Any cult has the power to do that, including the cult of Ray Peat!

haha good one!

As far as Christianity being a cult. I'd highly disagree. The church isn't manipulating me at all, I'm free to attend, free to be involved or not, free to contribute my finances or not, free to live my life how I want. Do you want to see a typical Sunday at my church? We sing praises for 25 mins and then our pastor gives an edifying sermon for 40 mins.

Well putting it that way, I almost envy that kind of loving of society of the church and it's gifts of feeling freedom in a form that connects each other. Were it not that it still conforms to a system of followers of an exclusive system of religious beliefs and practices, in other words a cult.

This last week was about disappointments and how God can use them to grow us as a person instead of us becoming bitter and angry. I'd like to know how that is controlling my life in a negative way?

of course it isn't controlling you in a negative way, for this is a self-evident positive feedback system.

But there is also an element of deception at play here, for the church is portraying to you a 'conundrum' or a conflict that is not really a conflict.
And it is giving you the solution by implying the contrary: not to be giving anger and bitterness after disappointments but the opposite: love.
...Of course your unconscious self knew this for that is the way of logic.
In other words, there is deliberate positive deception at play here. it can be exploited, thus it shall be exploited

 

[InChristAlone]

haha good one!

Well putting it that way, I almost envy that kind of loving of society of the church and it's gifts of feeling freedom in a form that connects each other. Were it not that it still conforms to a system of followers of an exclusive system of religious beliefs and practices, in other words a cult.

of course it isn't controlling you in a negative way, for this is a self-evident positive feedback system.

But there is also an element of deception at play here, for the church is portraying to you a 'conundrum' or a conflict that is not really a conflict.
And it is giving you the solution by implying the contrary: not to be giving anger and bitterness after disappointments but the opposite: love.
...Of course your unconscious self knew this for that is the way of logic.
In other words, there is deliberate positive deception at play here. it can be exploited, thus it shall be exploited

Your definition of a cult is very very loose, if we go by that many organizations are a cult. And maybe you are just ultra sensitive to anything structured and organized. I understand. I think it stems from being told what to do your whole life in public school. I was so anti-authoritarian, I unschooled my kids giving them freedom to learn what they want, they barely went to the doctor, never had any vaccines or drugs, and I breastfed them for yrs. Unfortunately the story isn't rainbows and sunshine, my family was falling apart due to lack of structure. My younger son has ADHD and they fail to thrive in unstructured environments. They don't need people telling them what to do but they do need expectations for their life, goals and things they can be responsible for things that make them feel accomplished. And we didn't provide any of that. I was a complete failure in my anti-authoritarian reclusive peatarian ways. Now we are legitimately homeschooling and attending a conservative homeschool group and he is thriving. We have a lot of things to undo still.

 

[PeskyPeater]

Your definition of a cult is very very loose, if we go by that many organizations are a cult. And maybe you are just ultra sensitive to anything structured and organized. I understand. I think it stems from being told what to do your whole life in public school. I was so anti-authoritarian, I unschooled my kids giving them freedom to learn what they want, they barely went to the doctor, never had any vaccines or drugs, and I breastfed them for yrs. Unfortunately the story isn't rainbows and sunshine, my family was falling apart due to lack of structure. My younger son has ADHD and they fail to thrive in unstructured environments. They don't need people telling them what to do but they do need expectations for their life, goals and things they can be responsible for things that make them feel accomplished. And we didn't provide any of that. I was a complete failure in my anti-authoritarian reclusive peatarian ways. Now we are legitimately homeschooling and attending a conservative homeschool group and he is thriving. We have a lot of things to undo still.

no my definition of a cult is not loose. It is pretty specific to the Christian ways coz there are not many other religions that operate with that kind history and a book except the Ethiopians they have their own bible and stories of Enoch. Seems to me you are just defending your stance trying to keep a straight up posture and I respect that.

As a non religiosity raised kid, I went to a christian school after the age of 6 and experienced first hand the mind bending effects of christian religion on my classmates. they seem to adapt to the authoritarian word of the teacher as collective robots, which seems weird to me, and I repelled myself from that kind of behavior and senses that their stories of Jesus seemed insane, I distanced myself from them at that age.
Attended public school after that made me feel free and being able to express and unravel myself freely to a certain extent.

 

[Lokzo]

Supps can do that, if you have just incorporated a new one, try to stop that. For instance, I know that Agmatine makes me depressed swiftly and harsh although it supposed to help with mental issues.

Exact same with me. Agmatine can induce rapid depression for me.

 

[TheSir]

Did you fix the issue? How? And for how long did you have the long covid?

Had it in April, felt fine until late May, after which the symptoms began. Unvaccinated. It's been slowly improving since August. Other symptoms were

1) abnormally loud/strong heartbeat. I could see my pulse in my eyes and feel it through my body as well as externally hear it when I laid down.

2) Post-exertion malaise (PEM). Intense fatigue/weakness/depression triggered by minor physical activity

3) Postural orthostatic tachycardia syndrome (POTS). Heart rate & blood pressure would overreact to sudden changes in posture.

4) Dizziness and head pressure.

I got my HTMA results back recently which showed low magnesium, zinc and iron. Megadosing magnesium seems to be speeding up my recovery. Still subject to a PEM crash if I go for a 20 minute walk.

 

[InChristAlone]

no my definition of a cult is not loose. It is pretty specific to the Christian ways coz there are not many other religions that operate with that kind history and a book except the Ethiopians they have their own bible and stories of Enoch. Seems to me you are just defending your stance trying to keep a straight up posture and I respect that.

As a non religiosity raised kid, I went to a christian school after the age of 6 and experienced first hand the mind bending effects of christian religion on my classmates. they seem to adapt to the authoritarian word of the teacher as collective robots, which seems weird to me, and I repelled myself from that kind of behavior and senses that their stories of Jesus seemed insane, I distanced myself from them at that age.
Attended public school after that made me feel free and being able to express and unravel myself freely to a certain extent.

The only religion? Islam is far more cultish than Christianity. And they have an aggressiveness that Christians do not have. But either way sounds like you had a negative experience and that's what is shaping your views not the actual Bible itself (which I find is the vast majority of people who have a negative view on Christians). But you can believe Jesus and His followers were delusional if you so choose. But consider this last point the earliest manuscript we have of Jesus was less than 100 yrs after his death and it was exactly the same as the New Testament we have now. Nothing changed. If Jesus was just made to be a god story it would take centuries and things would change the whole time. Nothing has ever changed about the Bible. And you can verify this yourself.

 

[DonLore]

Had it in April, felt fine until late May, after which the symptoms began. Unvaccinated. It's been slowly improving since August. Other symptoms were

1) abnormally loud/strong heartbeat. I could see my pulse in my eyes and feel it through my body as well as externally hear it when I laid down.

2) Post-exertion malaise (PEM). Intense fatigue/weakness/depression triggered by minor physical activity

3) Postural orthostatic tachycardia syndrome (POTS). Heart rate & blood pressure would overreact to sudden changes in posture.

4) Dizziness and head pressure.

I got my HTMA results back recently which showed low magnesium, zinc and iron. Megadosing magnesium seems to be speeding up my recovery. Still subject to a PEM crash if I go for a 20 minute walk.

Interesting. I should get may HTMA back next week. But I suspect magnesium, maybe selenium and other deficiencies.
Have you looked into the functional B2/B12 deficiency, caused by lack of co-factors iodine, molybdenum, selenium and B1?

 

[TheSir]

Interesting. I should get may HTMA back next week. But I suspect magnesium, maybe selenium and other deficiencies.
Have you looked into the functional B2/B12 deficiency, caused by lack of co-factors iodine, molybdenum, selenium and B1?

Only peripherally. I think that for the most part B-deficiencies will conveniently correct themselves once the mineral balance of the body is improved. Mineral imbalances and metal toxicity may be the reason why people need to megadose B-vitamins in the first place in order to notice a difference. Moreover, I'm in four lows pattern and a fast oxidator, both for which B vitamins are contraindicated. In the chart below you can see that I have also been eliminating copper, which no doubt plays a part in the symptoms I've been experiencing. I had been eating tons of cooked vegetables (trigger for copper elimination) just before my long covid began, as well as had quit alcohol, caffeine and speed some weeks earlier, so all of this created very turbulent conditions in my body that made the summer so difficult. I wonder if I would've ended up developing long covid at all without these pre-existing conditions.

 

[aliml]

What I've noticed is that after a bowel movement the feelings of negativity subside noticeably and this lasts for about half an hour

Bowel movements (coffee enemas or laxative suppositories) stimulate the vagus nerve.

19 Factors That May Stimulate Your Vagus Nerve Naturally - SelfDecode Health

The vagus nerve helps you rest, digest, and destress. Learn how to activate it with singing, yoga, and other activities.

health.selfdecode.com

How left vagus nerve stimulation helps treat depression is not well understood. The spleen may be involved.

Splenic NKG2D confers resilience versus susceptibility in mice after chronic social defeat stress: beneficial effects of (R)-ketamine

In ancient Greek and medieval medicine, it was believed that if the spleen produced too much "black bile", it would cause depression.

Meet The Spleen, The Strange Little Organ That Can Multiply

In a year when venting spleen dominated much of public discourse, we consider the humble organ of that name. You can live without your spleen, but your immune system will be happier with it.

npr.org

 

[LLight]

Still subject to a PEM crash if I go for a 20 minute walk.

CFS patients, and thus maybe long Covid too, might have manganese deficiency.

See Manganese And Its Unimportance In Health

The aberration in energy metabolism is compounded by other factors, such as reduced Mn but higher Ca intracellular levels seen in this study indicating disruptions in oxidative stress pathways, resulting in debilitating fatigue experienced by individuals with ME/CFS.

 

[Korven]

Now it's lamb, buffalo, fish, rice, oats, vegetables and fruit. Some olive oil

That is a very low calcium diet. How do you tolerate eggshell calcium? Or sardines with bones?

Calcium is a super important mineral for stress resilience and mood. More important than magnesium IMO. When there is no to very little calcium coming in through diet, your bones/body perceives it as a dangerous situation and you will experience more fear, anxiety and depressive states. Dairy is really the best source but eggshell or sardines could also work.

For me oatmeal is "depression food", but maybe you tolerate it better than me. If I eat it regularly I become melancholic and don't want to talk with people.

 

[ursidae]

That is a very low calcium diet. How do you tolerate eggshell calcium? Or sardines with bones?

Calcium is a super important mineral for stress resilience and mood. More important than magnesium IMO. When there is no to very little calcium coming in through diet, your bones/body perceives it as a dangerous situation and you will experience more fear, anxiety and depressive states. Dairy is really the best source but eggshell or sardines could also work.

For me oatmeal is "depression food", but maybe you tolerate it better than me. If I eat it regularly I become melancholic and don't want to talk with people.

I've experimented with numerous food and supplement source of calcium and all of them cause me skin problems or digestive upset

 

[Korven]

I've experimented with numerous food and supplement source of calcium and all of them cause me skin problems or digestive upset

That is... depressing (sorry for pun)

To be fair I think depression is more than just nutrient imbalances/deficiencies or whatever. There have only been a couple of times in my life where I truly felt connected to the world and other people, content, safe and like I truly belong here. Outwardly I appear somewhat normal but I feel like it's mostly just an act to fit in with society. Just a few weeks ago I was hopelessly depressed, but now I feel like life is good again. I like going for walks in forest and doing engaging stuff like making music, that makes me forget about depressive feelings. Hope you feel better soon!

 

[snappy99]

I've experimented with numerous food and supplement source of calcium and all of them cause me skin problems or digestive upset

Have you tried black strap molasses? It has a really good amount of calcium (and good calcium:phosphorus ratio). I know Peat doesn’t like molasses. But it has been only positive for my health. Specifically the Brer Rabbit brand molasses. I didn’t do as well with others. I think a lot of women benefit from black strap molasses.

Similarly, many greens are high in calcium and have a good ratio. I know Peat isn’t that big on greens either but I have seen positives from cooked greens.

 

[TheSir]

CFS patients, and thus maybe long Covid too, might have manganese deficiency.

See Manganese And Its Unimportance In Health

Thanks, makes sense. In my case iron and manganese are within a range that is described as a 'poor eliminator' pattern, meaning that a hidden toxicity may potentially exist due to the body being unable to remove toxic forms of this mineral from the tissue. This is an interesting notion in regards to covid and iron in particular, since the virus is known to cause iron toxicity by removing iron from red blood cells, after which it is subject to oxidation in the blood. In any case, the supplement stack I'm starting includes chelated manganese and organic iron!

 

[TheCalciumCad]

It's trapped energy that wants to be acknowledged. Sun and movement are great you can likely distinguish the energy by acknowledging it and letting it go in the space of about 15 minutes then feel far better shortly after. I've had a few heavy letting go sessions this week which unearthed a pocket of depression (low energy) as i'm making some major lifestyle changes so theres alot of resistance coming up. Tapping into the emotional state so you can FULLY FEEL IT and let it go is rejuvenating and works like magic, then obviously use that energy to improve your quality of life. Read this book.

How to Let Go

Listen to the podcast of this page. The Letting Go technique is simple. It’s so simple you may dismiss its incredible power. If you catch yourself doing this, let go. All you need to let go…

learnlettinggo.com

Interesting that depression looks (and feels) like full body inflammation. Also interesting how Anger is mainly the fists and Love looks like the heart and root charka are about to explode.

https://www.pnas.org/doi/10.1073/pnas.1321664111

 

[ddjd]

It could be that since you quit eating the lentils and chickpeas estrogen is not being removed from your bile as much as it should be. I eat beans with each meal. It isn’t Peat style but I no longer feel effects of estrogen. My gut is better than ever. I did experience gas but amazingly it eventually went away. I started by eating beans 5 times per day. I wish I had done this my whole life but better late than never and I am in my late 60s.

Wow, 9 years peating and I think this might be my issue as well I need to get back on lentils and beans

 

[LadyRae]

Havent taken histidine in months. I take B complex once in a while and a bit of zinc during menstrual bleeding.
As much as I try to minimise supplements my ability to fall and stay asleep has been poor so to get myself to fall asleep I take inositol, magnesium, phosphatidylserine (supplement contains some choline too), melatonin and the GABA increasing herbs. Maybe one of these is causing issues

Diet was well rounded but I had to quit dairy and eggs due to acne.
To add to that, my digestion took a turn for the worse so I had to stop eating legumes. I stopped eating potatoes too because I don't crave them anymore

Now it's lamb, buffalo, fish, rice, oats, vegetables and fruit. Some olive oil

How are you feeling this spring? And how is your skin?