Sudden and Crippling Depression

[ursidae]

I agree that it's probably gut-related. Gut stuff always is behind my depressive spells.

I think the supplements are likely worsening or causing it. I have never taken a single supplement that didn't cause digestive problems.

What I've noticed is that after a bowel movement the feelings of negativity subside noticeably and this lasts for about half an hour

 

[TheSir]

Have you had corona in recent months? It can leave you with persistent brain/nervous inflammation the effects of which may not truly set in until a few months later. It took 2 months after infection for my long covid to begin. Mental symptoms were crippling chemical-like depression, anxiety and sensory overload.

 

[PeskyPeater]

What I've noticed is that after a bowel movement the feelings of negativity subside noticeably and this lasts for about half an hour

Yeah that happens to me when I eat starches again, due too the gut-brain axis it messes with my mood and cognitive performance, anxiety-depression.
Dr Peat recommended losartan in case of digestive issues, which has the advantage of being an 'antidepressant'

What was your main eating pattern when this happened?

and what kind of gut issues do you encounter?

 

[DonLore]

Have you had corona in recent months? It can leave you with persistent brain/nervous inflammation the effects of which may not truly set in until a few months later. It took 2 months after infection for my long covid to begin. Mental symptoms were crippling chemical-like depression, anxiety and sensory overload.

Did you fix the issue? How? And for how long did you have the long covid?

 

[BlackMolasses]

I think there are plenty of substantial criticisms to be made of organized religion, but weak arguments deserve questioning no matter their source. Sorry if you feel condescended to, but I assumed from the tone of your comments towards religion I could take some liberties with mine.

you are right

"Harmony with nature" is just as dogmatic as anything else, but I agree that guilt is unnecessary.

not with nature, with MY nature.
And actually harmony is a big word, it's more about acceptance.
Religiosity and the idea of being the subject of a superior being, regardless of whether it's true or not, seems very guilt-inducing to me.

I'm not even particularly religious. Anyway, I appreciate the discussion, though I guess we should take anything further to a different thread. At least these posts are keeping it bumped.

yes

 

[BlackMolasses]

Jesus was saying the Pharisees were not righteous, far from it, just because they were following the laws. They may have been following the law but within their heart they were lustful, full of pride and arrogance, and all other manner of wickedness. We have ALL fallen short of the glory of God. Jesus paid the price on the cross so we don't have to die for it. It's not shame based it's love based. Many believe Christianity to be about shaming people into doing what's right. Not at all. We obey because we have the Spirit of the Lord within us and were created in His image.

Sorry for the thread hijack, just wanted to be sure people understand Jesus was not shamed based. He was incredibly loving towards those who have a lot of toxic shame. But he was incredibly harsh with those who thought they were righteous.

No, I believe you are acting well overall because it is in your nature (to the extent of your ability to be empathetic and socially intelligent).
You don't need all this craziness, you can just live by trying mostly to be a relatively balanced person, for your own good.

Sorry if I sound derogatory, it's unintentional, but I didn't have a religious upbringing at all and I never needed a religion, and my experience shows me that most of the problems that correct indirectly adherence to a religion can be directly corrected but a modification of the way of life, physical and cognitive exercises.

Even if I'm potentially superstitious, like more or less everyone, everything you tell me sounds like a fictional story to which you hold an excessive importance, a beautiful and interesting story, but not necessary and functional all the same.

 

[PeskyPeater]

I think this subject is raping this thread but:

one is either able to allow themselves to believe in GOD or not able to allow themselves to accept it (monotheism)

Seems to be because of a difference in partitioning of the brain

 

[TheCalciumCad]

that's a great resource
Ive tried not to have outbursts of emotion because they tend to be self-perpetuating. It I let it out it goes on forever

"It’s your thoughts about the pain that keep you stuck and unwilling to let go. Your willingness to let go thinking and accept what’s happening is your ticket to inner freedom."

Quieting the thoughts is something I struggle with. Also makes it hard to fall asleep

Two other tools that are useful are TRE (trauma release exercise) which is another form of "letting go" and Morning pages which is like a subconscious mind energy dump which free's up blocked energy.

 

[Runenight201]

On the subject of depression:

Reducing stress, increasing energy utilization (sleep and diet), and forming meaningful connections

On the subject of religion:
The problem of evil and religious pluralism is enough to convince me there ain’t no god. And if he’s there then he’s either powerless, cruel, or doesn’t care about us.

 

[ThinPicking]

I think this subject is raping this thread but:

one is either able to allow themselves to believe in GOD or not able to allow themselves to accept it (monotheism)

Seems to be because of a difference in partitioning of the brain

Nonsense Mr Pesky, it's simply a choice

Many people base their choice on simple observation of the world around them and human behaviour over time.

 

[InChristAlone]

No, I believe you are acting well overall because it is in your nature (to the extent of your ability to be empathetic and socially intelligent).
You don't need all this craziness, you can just live by trying mostly to be a relatively balanced person, for your own good.

Sorry if I sound derogatory, it's unintentional, but I didn't have a religious upbringing at all and I never needed a religion, and my experience shows me that most of the problems that correct indirectly adherence to a religion can be directly corrected but a modification of the way of life, physical and cognitive exercises.

Even if I'm potentially superstitious, like more or less everyone, everything you tell me sounds like a fictional story to which you hold an excessive importance, a beautiful and interesting story, but not necessary and functional all the same.

But it isn't in our nature to be good. What's the definition of good anyway? If we go by God's standards it's someone without sin. So if you have ever lied, stolen, cheated, slandered, boasted, had arrogance, had no mercy, disobeyed your parents, had sex outside of marriage, was jealous and wanted what your neighbor had, you aren't good. But it isn't surprising you would think this way. A lot of people in this culture believe they can just try to be a good person and that's all that's necessary. Moralistic therapeutic deism. It actually is necessary to submit to God, Ray Peat had me brainwashed that you can't have a good metabolism under any kind of authority. But the people I consider to have the most healthy constitutions are the most Christian people. I found one just the other day:

These people RADIATE health. On the contrary, most people on this forum I consider to be far from healthy. I myself lived under this anti-authoritarian brainwashing and I quite literally almost lost everything I had. I still am quite addicted to coming on this forum and tend towards more reclusiveness. So take it from me, we aren't by nature good. Following God and submitting to his authority is changing my life completely. Going through the fire and rearranging all my baggage isn't easy, it's been the most challenging thing I've ever went through, but it saved my marriage and my family and I'm slowly coming to know who I am in Christ instead of the person I thought I was but was really just seeking fulfillment in all the wrong places and being a false self. Dealing with our toxic shame is one of the most painful things you will ever go through so it's absolutely no surprise the idea of submitting to a loving God is so foreign, it would mean having to face all that pain buried in your heart from when you were little, from when all you wanted was to be loved and to be truly seen for who you are but instead you were scolded and shamed thus necessitating a false self to avoid feeling so horrible.

"Toxic shame is unbearable and always necessitates a cover up, a false self. Since one feels his true self is defective and flawed one needs a false self that is not defective and flawed. Once one becomes a false self, one ceases to exist psychologically. A false self tries to be more than human or less than human."

More than human tries to be the one in control of everything making it near impossible to submit to God, the less than human becomes addicted and/or depressed possibly suicidal.

 

[PeskyPeater]

Nonsense Mr Pesky, it's simply a choice

Many people base their choice on simple observation of the world around them and human behaviour over time.

Monotheism is a choice? :)
Not when I'm so broken and desperate and helpless and I see no way out. Out of despair can come the intention to start wanting to believe in a GOD savior to be able to fathom and cope with my miserably perceived reality at that time to prevent the terrible possible outcome of sudden death by excessive shock. IS this then a free choice or is this merely an effect from the stress induced situation?
Still, this is not for everyone the same choice. I hypothesize the tendency to this behavior must be defined in the pathways of the brain related to meta-cognitive abilities and coping mechanisms of a certain set of mind-brain.
Why then, not choose to become a pagan out of despair? Why not have flashing lights of revelation and become the all knowing-one yourself? Never see this happening.. Why should I stay small pathetic human while I could become like a GOD? Or is that just an illusion of wishful thinking? Then I ask, what is the difference in this wish of becoming a God and saving myself and the hope of being saved by the one and only God? Is my wish to become a superhero god not as far-fetched as declaring an godly authoritarian ruler?
In this case I present here, monotheism is an effect of the inescapable stress bound to ignorance of the nature behind the world and the tendency to react out of a conditioned behavior based on learned helplessness.
Putting that despair scenario aside, why should I choose to allow myself to be monotheist while I am fan of the scientific method? Then I do not choose to allow myself to follow a dogmatic religion at all, for the assumption is then that there is a knowable higher cause, with my intention to explore beyond the limitations of the unknowable nature of world imposed by monotheism, superseding the basic foundation of dogma in religion.
This can only happen when I have another state of mind structured differently than the mind-brain of the religious, a mindset that is more eager to breakout of current paradigm instead of accepting dogma as a fixed irrefutable truth, a characteristic of an absolute ruler like that of the authoritarian mindset.

 

[BlackMolasses]

But it isn't in our nature to be good. What's the definition of good anyway? If we go by God's standards it's someone without sin. So if you have ever lied, stolen, cheated, slandered, boasted, had arrogance, had no mercy, disobeyed your parents, had sex outside of marriage, was jealous and wanted what your neighbor had, you aren't good. But it isn't surprising you would think this way. A lot of people in this culture believe they can just try to be a good person and that's all that's necessary. Moralistic therapeutic deism. It actually is necessary to submit to God, Ray Peat had me brainwashed that you can't have a good metabolism under any kind of authority. But the people I consider to have the most healthy constitutions are the most Christian people. I found one just the other day:

These people RADIATE health. On the contrary, most people on this forum I consider to be far from healthy. I myself lived under this anti-authoritarian brainwashing and I quite literally almost lost everything I had. I still am quite addicted to coming on this forum and tend towards more reclusiveness. So take it from me, we aren't by nature good. Following God and submitting to his authority is changing my life completely. Going through the fire and rearranging all my baggage isn't easy, it's been the most challenging thing I've ever went through, but it saved my marriage and my family and I'm slowly coming to know who I am in Christ instead of the person I thought I was but was really just seeking fulfillment in all the wrong places and being a false self. Dealing with our toxic shame is one of the most painful things you will ever go through so it's absolutely no surprise the idea of submitting to a loving God is so foreign, it would mean having to face all that pain buried in your heart from when you were little, from when all you wanted was to be loved and to be truly seen for who you are but instead you were scolded and shamed thus necessitating a false self to avoid feeling so horrible.

"Toxic shame is unbearable and always necessitates a cover up, a false self. Since one feels his true self is defective and flawed one needs a false self that is not defective and flawed. Once one becomes a false self, one ceases to exist psychologically. A false self tries to be more than human or less than human."

More than human tries to be the one in control of everything making it near impossible to submit to God, the less than human becomes addicted and/or depressed possibly suicidal.

You don't have to try to be anything, just be yourself and lead a life that pleases you, as much as possible.
I don't know why you make the effort to make such blocks, as I've already said I'm not sensitive to it.
You do your own therapy I believe.

 

[InChristAlone]

Monotheism is a choice? :)
Not when I'm so broken and desperate and helpless and I see no way out. Out of despair can come the intention to start wanting to believe in a GOD savior to be able to fathom and cope with my miserably perceived reality at that time to prevent the terrible possible outcome of sudden death by excessive shock. IS this then a free choice or is this merely an effect from the stress induced situation?
Still, this is not for everyone the same choice. I hypothesize the tendency to this behavior must be defined in the pathways of the brain related to meta-cognitive abilities and coping mechanisms of a certain set of mind-brain.
Why then, not choose to become a pagan out of despair? Why not have flashing lights of revelation and become the all knowing-one yourself? Never see this happening.. Why should I stay small pathetic human while I could become like a GOD? Or is that just an illusion of wishful thinking? Then I ask, what is the difference in this wish of becoming a God and saving myself and the hope of being saved by the one and only God? Is my wish to become a superhero god not as far-fetched as declaring an godly authoritarian ruler?
In this case I present here, monotheism is an effect of the inescapable stress bound to ignorance of the nature behind the world and the tendency to react out of a conditioned behavior based on learned helplessness.
Putting that despair scenario aside, why should I choose to allow myself to be monotheist while I am fan of the scientific method? Then I do not choose to allow myself to follow a dogmatic religion at all, for the assumption is then that there is a knowable higher cause, with my intention to explore beyond the limitations of the unknowable nature of world imposed by monotheism, superseding the basic foundation of dogma in religion.
This can only happen when I have another state of mind structured differently than the mind-brain of the religious, a mindset that is more eager to breakout of current paradigm instead of accepting dogma as a fixed irrefutable truth, a characteristic of an absolute ruler like that of the authoritarian mindset.

Becoming your own god is absolutely just an illusion. If everyone lived their own truth becoming their own god (ie little gods doctrine) society would collapse as we are seeing now. You can't tell someone they are wrong because they are just living their own truth. What happens when pedophilia has to become accepted because they are just living their truth? This is the next thing. First it was homosexuality is acceptable because they are just living who they are.. next comes pedophilia.. they are just living out who they are. Transgender are now affirmed for living their truth as well. Want to dress up as a woman? Go ahead you are just living out what you believe is true in your heart. These things are mental illnesses, but now they are defined as identities because no one can tell anyone what they are doing is wrong, we all come up with our own truth. Anti-authoritarianism is just an offshoot of this. And leads to the same thing. Just live your own truth no one can say what's right or what's wrong. No structure to life at all. Which honestly is exactly the opposite of what Ray Peat wants which is less chaos. Life IS chaotic when you have no foundation to go off except your feelings and desires.

 

[BlackMolasses]

Becoming your own god is absolutely just an illusion. If everyone lived their own truth becoming their own god (ie little gods doctrine) society would collapse as we are seeing now. You can't tell someone they are wrong because they are just living their own truth. What happens when pedophilia has to become accepted because they are just living their truth? This is the next thing. First it was homosexuality is acceptable because they are just living who they are.. next comes pedophilia.. they are just living out who they are. Transgender are now affirmed for living their truth as well. Want to dress up as a woman? Go ahead you are just living out what you believe is true in your heart. These things are mental illnesses, but now they are defined as identities because no one can tell anyone what they are doing is wrong, we all come up with our own truth. Anti-authoritarianism is just an offshoot of this. And leads to the same thing. Just live your own truth no one can say what's right or what's wrong. No structure to life at all. Which honestly is exactly the opposite of what Ray Peat wants which is less chaos. Life IS chaotic when you have no foundation to go off except your feelings and desires.

People do not like their child to be touched by an adult, and demand compensation.
The refusal of pedophilia and everything related to justice in general is pragmatic, it is not a question of "ideal".

 

[PeskyPeater]

Becoming your own god is absolutely just an illusion. If everyone lived their own truth becoming their own god (ie little gods doctrine) society would collapse as we are seeing now. You can't tell someone they are wrong because they are just living their own truth. What happens when pedophilia has to become accepted because they are just living their truth? This is the next thing. First it was homosexuality is acceptable because they are just living who they are.. next comes pedophilia.. they are just living out who they are. Transgender are now affirmed for living their truth as well. Want to dress up as a woman? Go ahead you are just living out what you believe is true in your heart. These things are mental illnesses, but now they are defined as identities because no one can tell anyone what they are doing is wrong, we all come up with our own truth. Anti-authoritarianism is just an offshoot of this. And leads to the same thing. Just live your own truth no one can say what's right or what's wrong. No structure to life at all. Which honestly is exactly the opposite of what Ray Peat wants which is less chaos. Life IS chaotic when you have no foundation to go off except your feelings and desires.

exactly, allowing yourself to believe you are God is delusional and is similar to allowing yourself to be ruled by the one god out of despair, because of the ignorance of the history of the gods of ancient paganism, destroyed by the monotheistic cults.
With it's potential to function as a control system of authoritarian characteristic, [monotheism] is an attractive doctrine to apply on a civilization, making them easily governed. Changing the structure of mind-brain over generations.

 

[ThinPicking]

Monotheism is a choice? :)
Not when I'm so broken and desperate and helpless and I see no way out. Out of despair can come the intention to start wanting to believe in a GOD savior to be able to fathom and cope with my miserably perceived reality at that time to prevent the terrible possible outcome of sudden death by excessive shock. IS this then a free choice or is this merely an effect from the stress induced situation?
Still, this is not for everyone the same choice. I hypothesize the tendency to this behavior must be defined in the pathways of the brain related to meta-cognitive abilities and coping mechanisms of a certain set of mind-brain.
Why then, not choose to become a pagan out of despair? Why not have flashing lights of revelation and become the all knowing-one yourself? Never see this happening.. Why should I stay small pathetic human while I could become like a GOD? Or is that just an illusion of wishful thinking? Then I ask, what is the difference in this wish of becoming a God and saving myself and the hope of being saved by the one and only God? Is my wish to become a superhero god not as far-fetched as declaring an godly authoritarian ruler?
In this case I present here, monotheism is an effect of the inescapable stress bound to ignorance of the nature behind the world and the tendency to react out of a conditioned behavior based on learned helplessness.
Putting that despair scenario aside, why should I choose to allow myself to be monotheist while I am fan of the scientific method? Then I do not choose to allow myself to follow a dogmatic religion at all, for the assumption is then that there is a knowable higher cause, with my intention to explore beyond the limitations of the unknowable nature of world imposed by monotheism, superseding the basic foundation of dogma in religion.
This can only happen when I have another state of mind structured differently than the mind-brain of the religious, a mindset that is more eager to breakout of current paradigm instead of accepting dogma as a fixed irrefutable truth, a characteristic of an absolute ruler like that of the authoritarian mindset.

To coin your phrase, you appear to be a victim of "conspiracy thinking phenomenon" Mr Pesky. There's no need to sabotage your relationship with your creator. There's only a simple choice to have one.

 

[PeskyPeater]

To coin your phrase, you appear to be a victim of "conspiracy thinking phenomenon" Mr Pesky. There's no need to sabotage your relationship with your creator. There's only a simple choice to have one.

Nah this is not conspiracy, it is psychology.

 

[ThinPicking]

People do not like their child to be touched by an adult, and demand compensation.
The refusal of pedophilia and everything related to justice in general is pragmatic, it is not a question of "ideal".

All people do not like that being done to any child Mr Black. All except those who are evil. All except those who are lost.

 

[PeskyPeater]

To coin your phrase, you appear to be a victim of "conspiracy thinking phenomenon" Mr Pesky. There's no need to sabotage your relationship with your creator. There's only a simple choice to have one.

Seems to me that 'sabotaging' the relationship with your 'creator' and hiding truth is more what the monotheistic cults have been doing after our Sun and Moon system stabilized and those gods / planets are no longer showing their amazing plasma configuration effects from close proximity discharge-phenomenon as described on ancient cave wall paintings.