SPEAK THE TRUTH! And Redeem This World From Hell

[x-ray peat]

But Nietzsche was no sentimentalist, he was a philosopher. He acknowledged the death of absolute values, and acknowledged the abyss of nihilism. But he also denied the inevitability of nihilism. Ultimately, he was compelled to find values that went deeper than religious values.

It could be argued that he failed. It could also be argued that search sent a lot of brilliant people down dead ends, such as Heidegger's flirtations with Nazism. But they all agree that morality still exists without god. This is a fact that still, 130 years after Zarathustra, leaves religious devotees angst-ridden and in denial.

"God is dead. And no one cares." -Trent Reznor

He is of course wrong about the "no one cares" part.

All true but it is a relative morality that changes depending on who is in power. At the most basic level the only morality in secularism is "Might Makes Right." The Nazis thought they were acting morally as did every other fascist or communist regime of the last century. This while they murdered far more than any religion ever did.

 

[managing]

All true but it is a relative morality that changes depending on who is in power. At the most basic level the only morality in secularism is Might makes Right." The Nazis thought they were acting morally as did every other fascist or communist regime of the last century. This while they murdered far more than any religion ever did.

But that's because you are looking for absolute morality in the structures and pretenses of authoritarian systems. The whole point of "god is dead" (IMHO, not from Nietzsche) is to stop looking for morality in all the wrong places. Its in our humanity. Its in here. Not out there. Not in Nazism, not in liberalism, not in social capitalism, not in postmodernism, not in Peatarianism, not in Nationalism, or any other thing given by an other . . .

 

[x-ray peat]

Morality and pleasure don’t go hand in hand, at least not for women as the history of civilization has shown. Nietzsche was trying to kill the father and escape the fate of having to reproduce whatever came before him. The only way Oedipus resolves the dilemma is by refusing to partake in the myth of progress and going inward to discovery humility.

Realistically civilization is the antithesis to pleasure. It’s all theater and spectacle and show but no real feeling. You trade in your sexuality for sophistication.

A moral life can be very pleasurable. I imagine that a life that is solely focused on pleasure is not very pleasurable in the end.

And wasn't Freud pretty much proven a fraud? Im not sure every driving force behind men is to kill their father and marry their mother.

 

[x-ray peat]

But that's because you are looking for absolute morality in the structures and pretenses of authoritarian systems. The whole point of "god is dead" (IMHO, not from Nietzsche) is to stop looking for morality in all the wrong places. Its in our humanity. Its in here. Not out there. Not in Nazism, not in liberalism, not in social capitalism, not in postmodernism, not in Peatarianism, not in Nationalism, or any other thing given by an other . . .

I could easily have pointed to the moral failings of Democratic societies that can justify the worst offenses in the name of utilitarianism. Already in Europe they are going hog wild with euthanasia of the old and mentally ill, all in the "best" interests of society.

Yes individuals can always choose morality based on their own internal logic but as Peterson points out it is just as logical to choose self interest as your moral compass. Moreover these "moral" people are never the ones to end up ruling a country. They are always pushed out by those more cunning and ruthless.

 

[managing]

Already in Europe they are going hog wild with euthanasia of the old and mentally ill, all in the "best" interests of society.

Yes individuals can always choose morality based on their own internal logic but as Peterson points out it is just as logical to choose self interest as your moral compass. Moreover these "moral" people are never the ones to end up ruling a country. They are always pushed out by those more cunning and ruthless.

Proof of bolded?

As for finding morality within, if Peterson reverts to "logic" then he's a fool (haven't read him). That is the last place to find morality, as the 20th century philosophers eventually figured out. I'd go back to Buber or David Bohm for transcendence of that intellectual trap.

But moral people are not pushed out by immoral people, they are pushed out by people who "find" morality in religion.

 

[LUH 3417]

A moral life can be very pleasurable. I imagine that a life that is solely focused on pleasure is not very pleasurable in the end.

And wasn't Freud pretty much proven a fraud? Im not sure every driving force behind men is to kill their father and marry their mother.

Freud was only proved to be a fraud to the extent that his form of psychoanalysis was an attempt to integrate hysterics into the dominant culture.

 

[x-ray peat]

Proof of bolded?

As for finding morality within, if Peterson reverts to "logic" then he's a fool (haven't read him). That is the last place to find morality, as the 20th century philosophers eventually figured out. I'd go back to Buber or David Bohm for transcendence of that intellectual trap.

But moral people are not pushed out by immoral people, they are pushed out by people who "find" morality in religion.

Dutch Law Would Allow Assisted Suicide for Healthy Older People
Dying Dutch: Euthanasia Spreads Across Europe
https://nypost.com/2016/02/27/europes-cure-for-autism-is-euthanasia/

Again you are speaking in terms of individual morality; I am speaking in terms of societal morality. Buber ended up fleeing the Nazis. His individual morality was no match for that of the state.

now your turn. Proof of Bolded?

 

[LUH 3417]

But that's because you are looking for absolute morality in the structures and pretenses of authoritarian systems. The whole point of "god is dead" (IMHO, not from Nietzsche) is to stop looking for morality in all the wrong places. Its in our humanity. Its in here. Not out there. Not in Nazism, not in liberalism, not in social capitalism, not in postmodernism, not in Peatarianism, not in Nationalism, or any other thing given by an other . . .

The only thing ever given by an other is life. The original other is the Mother. When humans organize and socialize around life and death, living and dying do not become as contentious as they have become in the 21st century. Maybe RP is wrong and authority is not the right term. Maybe things and beings have innate authority reflected by their biology, their mineral composition, their electrical charge. Maybe power and accumulation is what is problematic. How can we rely on the illusion of progress when we literally live in a world where women forgot how to safely deliver offspring?

 

[LUH 3417]

A moral life can be very pleasurable. I imagine that a life that is solely focused on pleasure is not very pleasurable in the end.

And wasn't Freud pretty much proven a fraud? Im not sure every driving force behind men is to kill their father and marry their mother.

I meant simple pleasures like eating, socializing, pleasurable interaction with a pleasurable environment. All these things are very pleasurable from beginning to end.

 

[managing]

Dutch Law Would Allow Assisted Suicide for Healthy Older People
Dying Dutch: Euthanasia Spreads Across Europe
https://nypost.com/2016/02/27/europes-cure-for-autism-is-euthanasia/

Again you are speaking in terms of individual morality; I am speaking in terms of societal morality. Buber ended up fleeing the Nazis. His individual morality was no match for that of the state.

now your turn. Proof of Bolded?

Ah, but assisted suicide and euthanasia are two totally different things.

As for my statement you bolded, I was just reinterpreting your "Moreover these "moral" people are never the ones to end up ruling a country. They are always pushed out by those more cunning and ruthless." The vast, overwhelming majority, of those "ruling" will cite moral authority in religious terms. I am not aware of anybody running for office saying "I'm not religious, but I'm very moral". Even Trump turned to religious leaders to characterize his morality. But then nobody would have believed it (as if they do anyway).

 

[x-ray peat]

Ah, but assisted suicide and euthanasia are two totally different things.

The line in Holland is getting ever thinner between the two and Im not sure what is the difference in many cases. My point is that without religion all becomes permissible. A Judaeo-Christian morality, as an example, would regard all life as sacred as we are created in the image of God.

As for my statement you bolded, I was just reinterpreting your "Moreover these "moral" people are never the ones to end up ruling a country. They are always pushed out by those more cunning and ruthless." The vast, overwhelming majority, of those "ruling" will cite moral authority in religious terms. I am not aware of anybody running for office saying "I'm not religious, but I'm very moral". Even Trump turned to religious leaders to characterize his morality. But then nobody would have believed it (as if they do anyway).

That furthers my point as Trump, not being a moral man, falsely used whatever he could to get to power, lying all the way. A moral man would never pull half the crap he did to get elected.

 

[managing]

The line in Holland is getting ever thinner between the two and Im not sure what is the difference in many cases. My point is that without religion all becomes permissible. A Judaeo-Christian morality, as an example, would regard all life as sacred as we are created in the image of God.


That furthers my point as Trump, not being a moral man, falsely used whatever he could to get to power, lying all the way. A moral man would never pull half the crap he did to get elected.

I am not judeo-christian. I believe life is sacred. Full stop.

EDIT: forgot to add, until it becomes mandatory and decided by 3rd parties, its not euthanization, imho.

On the latter, I'm really not disagreeing with you. Just looking at it differently. But I would add, a moral man would never pull half the crap he did. Again, full stop.

 

[x-ray peat]

I am not judeo-christian. I believe life is sacred. Full stop.

EDIT: forgot to add, until it becomes mandatory and decided by 3rd parties, its not euthanization, imho.

On the latter, I'm really not disagreeing with you. Just looking at it differently. But I would add, a moral man would never pull half the crap he did. Again, full stop.

I have no doubt and didnt mean to imply that only religious people have morals. My only point is that without an absolute guiding principle then ethics based on secularism can easily be manipulated to justify anything.
As for euthanasia, the dutch are euthanizing severely mentally ill people who couldn't possibly provide consent. Maybe their caretakers are but that still is a 3rd party especially if they are in state hospitals without family.

 

[managing]

I have no doubt and didnt mean to imply that only religious people have morals. My only point is that without an absolute guiding principle then ethics based on secularism can easily be manipulated to justify anything.

Yes, I would agree with this. But I would go further: even "an absolute guiding principle" can easily be manipulated to justify anything.

 

[pimpnamedraypeat]

Just to bring things back full circle to Jordan Peterson, whether or not one believes in God, we should have an appreciation for what religion does provide in terms of basic morality. Peterson is basically elaborating on Nietzsche's belief that when we kill God we kill the morality that goes with it.

Religion is great if you're trying to run an empire or nation with too many people for them to possibly care or even know each other.

Religion is good for the country and good for the leaders, but for the individual? No.

The only thing ever given by an other is life. The original other is the Mother.

God gives life. You're right the original other is the mother which is why there are so many bad people walking around. bad mothers.

How can we rely on the illusion of progress when we literally live in a world where women forgot how to safely deliver offspring?

You over estimate humanity. The vast majority of people are bred to be cattle who believe whatever their superiors tell then. Every so often there's a cleansing and free thinkers tend to get the worst of it.

As for euthanasia, the dutch are euthanizing severely mentally ill people who couldn't possibly provide consent. Maybe their caretakers are but that still is a 3rd party especially if they are in state hospitals without family.

What's your obsession with consent? Talk about fiat morality.

Did you consent to being born? Did they consent to being born retarded?

I agree with the dutch. People who are too painfully retarded should be gently put to sleep.

 

[LUH 3417]

Religion is great if you're trying to run an empire or nation with too many people for them to possibly care or even know each other.

Religion is good for the country and good for the leaders, but for the individual? No.



God gives life. You're right the original other is the mother which is why there are so many bad people walking around. bad mothers.



You over estimate humanity. The vast majority of people are bred to be cattle who believe whatever their superiors tell then. Every so often there's a cleansing and free thinkers tend to get the worst of it.



What's your obsession with consent? Talk about fiat morality.

Did you consent to being born? Did they consent to being born retarded?

I agree with the dutch. People who are too painfully retarded should be gently put to sleep.

For the purposes of remaining grounded in reality and the physical plane, an egg fertilized by sperm creates a zinc spark. I never met god I’ve just seen very beautiful and interesting people and things.

 

[pimpnamedraypeat]

For the purposes of remaining grounded in reality and the physical plane, an egg fertilized by sperm creates a zinc spark. I never met god I’ve just seen very beautiful and interesting people and things.

God isn't a person, god is the universe.
God made zinc inside stars.

 

[LUH 3417]

God isn't a person, god is the universe.
God made zinc inside stars.

That appeals to my inner child but I’d like to be an adult now.

 

[x-ray peat]

What's your obsession with consent? Talk about fiat morality.
Did you consent to being born? Did they consent to being born retarded?
I agree with the dutch. People who are too painfully retarded should be gently put to sleep.

sounds like life not worth living. hmm where have I heard that one before

Consent by the way is the foundation of the social contract. We consent to give up certain rights in exchange for Governmental protections of our other rights. One such right is the right to life. If Governments can take away life based on whatever they deem appropriate then you have no rights.

 

[x-ray peat]

Religion is great if you're trying to run an empire or nation with too many people for them to possibly care or even know each other.

Religion is good for the country and good for the leaders, but for the individual? No.

Religion provides a lot of benefits to people, least of all a greater sense of happiness and contentment.