Losing weight shortens life, staying fat is better

[ecstatichamster]

Very well done study with a mind blowing result unless you’ve been following this topic for awhile, in which case you already know this.

https://link.springer.com/content/pdf/10.1186/s12885-019-6299-4.pdf

Methods: A total of 81,388 participants who were free of cancer and aged 55 to 74 years from the Prostate, Lung, Colorectal, and Ovarian (PLCO) screening program were involved.

The percentage change of BMI was calculated as (BMI in 2006 - BMI at baseline)/BMI at baseline, and was categorized into nine groups: decrease (≥ 15.0%, 10.0–14.9%, 5.0–9.9%, 2.5–4.9%), stable (decrease/increase < 2.5%), increase (2.5–4.9%, 5.0–9.9%, 10.0–14.9%, ≥ 15.0%). The associations between percentage change in BMI from study enrolment to follow-up (median: 9.1 years) and the risks of CRC and mortality were evaluated using Cox proportional hazard regression models.

Results: After 2006, there were 241 new CRC cases, 648 cancer-related deaths, and 2361 all-cause deaths identified.

Overall, the associations between BMI change and CRC incidence and cancer-related mortality, respectively, were not statistically significant. Compared with participants whose BMI were stable, individuals who had a decrease in BMI were at increased risk of all-cause mortality,

Every 5% decrease in BMI was associated with a 27% increase in the risk of all-cause mortality (HR = 1.27, 95% CI: 1.22–1.31, p < 0.001). The results from subgroups showed similar trends.

Conclusions: A decrease in BMI more than 5% shows a significantly increased risk of all-cause mortality among older individuals; but no significant association between increase in BMI and all-cause mortality. These findings emphasize the importance of body weight management in older population, and more studies are warranted to evaluate the cause-and-effect relationship between changes in BMI and cancer incidence/mortality.
Keywords: BMI change, Colorectal cancer risk, Mortality, Older adults, Longitudinal associatio

 

[ecstatichamster]

People live longer today than they did 80 years ago. Maybe it’s because we’re heavier today.

 

[LLight]

Why were they loosing weight?

 

[TheSir]

Why were they loosing weight?

Good point. Spontaneous weight loss is normal for (fatally) sick people. For this study to have validity, only intentional weight loss should be included.

 

[Rinse & rePeat]

Good point. Spontaneous weight loss is normal for (fatally) sick people. For this study to have validity, only intentional weight loss should be included.

I am thinking this too, “BMI change”, from the body releasing bad stored fats, not consistently being obese.

 

[LLight]

Good point. Spontaneous weight loss is normal for (fatally) sick people. For this study to have validity, only intentional weight loss should be included.

Exactly

 

[ecstatichamster]

it's difficult to say. But I would say most people I meet are "trying to lose weight" so it stands to reason that many/most "wanted to lose weight."

 

[Blossom]

If I stop posting check the obituaries. I could be taking (as someone here phrased it) ‘the dirt nap’ because my bmi initially went up 13 points and then back down 15 in the last 10 years. It’s weird that I feel better than ever. Sometimes I wonder if science is purposely trying to mislead and confuse us tbh. That said I do not think going through what I went through is optimal and that people who didn’t gain too much in the first place and remain relatively weight stable are probably better off. I think we all know when we feel comfortable and strong in our body after all.

 

[LLight]

A 15% loss of BMI for someone being very fat would still make them fat.

An interesting analysis could be to compare mortality risk of people being in the same BMI bucket and differentiating the results according to the BMI decrease.

 

[Blossom]

I think bmi is somewhat of a sham since it doesn’t differentiate muscle v fat mass. That said percentage wise I lost 45% from my highest bmi when you convert it from points to percentage so I should still be near death!

 

[Peatful]

People fear weight.
People fear being fat.
People fear food.



Related:

Fat Is An Organ

Biochemistry of adipose tissue: an endocrine organ It is time we start respecting our fat. Fat cells are not a mere repository for excess energy. The above paper has this to say: "Adipose tissue is no longer considered to be an inert tissue that stores fat. This tissue is capable of expanding...

raypeatforum.com

 

[Runenight201]

Imo BMI is not a useful metric when it comes to health status. A much more useful one would be waist to height ratio. Going further, there is no benefit to having visceral fat and in fact a lot of harm here. Subcutaneous fat definitely is harmless, although I struggle to see the utility of having excess subcutaneous fat in an energy dense environment that we have currently.

If having a higher BMI means you have more muscle/bone mass, than that certainly is a good thing, but if it's adding visceral fat than that's a bad thing. There's definitely more nuance too because if you have too much weight, regardless of it's bone/muscle, than you still can be stressing cardiovascular systems, as seen by bodybuilders who have very little fat and large amounts of muscle but still end up having poor cardiac outcomes from just pure excess weight. I feel like there definitely is a sweetspot of having a healthy amount of weight, where there's an optimal muscle/bone/fat percentage, as well. Idk what that is though,

Idk if I'd be promoting gaining fat, but moreso gaining the much more functinally useful muscle. Fat inevitably comes along for the ride, and that's what we should eliminating the stigma against, which is the fear of gaining muscle mass if it means fat is also going to be accumulated.

 

[Aymen]

Obesity is certianly an endocrine disorder, in my teens i was about 120 kg, i was very unhealthy, i used to be heavy PUFAs consumer, gluten, very low calcium intake, phosphorus, etc. things that damaged my thyroid and made my metabolism low, obviously doing everything opposed to what Ray says without knowing him which was clearly shown by finding a new 5 kg of weight everytiime i visited the doctor, repressing myself with very low calories diet combined with intermittent fasting and weight lifting and HIIT Cardio made me lost 45 kg in 6 months, i avoided all types of junk food at time except for cheating once a week to prevent my body from thinking that i,m starving myself to death, i ate around 5000 calories in the cheat day, and i still lost all my body fat, i was 17 at that period, young people can quickly turn things around, metabolism is restored according to Ray when the ratio of Saturated to Poylunsaturated fats is 2:1. I followed a high testosterone lifestyle from 18 to 22 which made me avoid all the PUFAs without knowing how bad it is, just because i have read the SAturated fats is pro T, when i found Ray and followed what he teach i lost more weight naturally without trying, just because metabolic rate kept going higher and higher, i look thinner every year from the hyperthyroidism (no thyroid supplement) which makes my calories requirements way higher, i,m 27.5 now and i,m trying to gain weight, i went from 72 kg to 65 kg from years of peating and being sedentary which made me more ugly but more healthy, i joined a gym last month and added sprints back once a week and i eat 4000 calories a day and in weekends around 5000 and i,m not gaining weight.

Everything that increases the metabolism will make you lose weight without trying, the mice fed on a high fat diet using DNP lost weight, Ray peat lost weight eating the same foods using coconut oil.

"DNP-treated mice weighed 26% less than controls after 2 months of treatment due to decreased fat mass, without a change in lean mass."

The Chemical Uncoupler 2,4-Dinitrophenol (DNP) Protects against Diet-induced Obesity and Improves Energy Homeostasis in Mice at Thermoneutrality

Background: The chemical uncoupler 2,4-dinitrophenol was widely used as a treatment for obesity in the past.Results: In mice, 2,4-dinitrophenol generates heat and turns off brown fat heat production. It reduces weight gain at thermoneutrality but not ...

www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov

I think the chronic elevated cortisol from forcing yourself to lose weight is what makes people who are obese live longer, obesity is not a bad thing if one builds muscle eating only high saturatef fat sources, the muscles will burn fat at rest, the Ray Peat dietary guidelines is pro anti inflammatory so it will make one gain mostly muscles if he follow a weight lifting program.

So unintentional weight loss is good, a sign of high metabolism, if your have low stress in life then sudden weight loss is not a problem

 

[Rinse & rePeat]

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If I stop posting check the obituaries. I could be taking (as someone here phrased it) ‘the dirt nap’ because my bmi initially went up 13 points and then back down 15 in the last 10 years. It’s weird that I feel better than ever. Sometimes I wonder if science is purposely trying to mislead and confuse us tbh. That said I do not think going through what I went through is optimal and that people who didn’t gain too much in the first place and remain relatively weight stable are probably better off. I think we all know when we feel comfortable and strong in our body after all.

You’re good Blossom, you drink your milk…

“Cancer involves increased activity of the fatty acid synthase enzymes. Increased calcium consumption beneficially affects both sets of enzymes, uncoupling proteins and fatty acid synthase.” -Ray Peat

 

[LLight]

Can lipophilic pollutants in adipose tissue explain weight change‐related risk in type 2 diabetes mellitus?

www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov

However, the dynamics of lipophilic pollutants stored in adipose tissue may be involved in the U‐shaped association between weight change and poor prognosis among patients with type 2 diabetes mellitus.

 

[Blossom]

.

You’re good Blossom, you drink your milk…

“Cancer involves increased activity of the fatty acid synthase enzymes. Increased calcium consumption beneficially affects both sets of enzymes, uncoupling proteins and fatty acid synthase.” -Ray Peat

Thanks friend, It’s been eggshells for me mostly but I’m not the least bit worried.
I’ve seen your pictures and they perfectly illustrate that there’s more to the story than simple BMI. BMI is a rough measure for categorizing people but when it comes to individual health it basically fails.

 

[Kimster]

Most leading edge Doctors these days discount BMI altogether and have kicked it to the curb as a measurement to address at all.
That is Intelligent free thinking Doctors, let me qualify that statement.

 

[Dapose]

I have noticed that that fat on my body is of a much nicer quality since I started peating. It is 15° F outside in the sun today. High is -3F on Monday. And this nice layer of thick skin I got from two years of adding lots of dairy and sugary fruit are keeping me nice and warm while I shovel snow!
Love your fat! Don’t be obese.

 

[Rinse & rePeat]

I have noticed that that fat on my body is of a much nicer quality since I started peating. It is 15° F outside in the sun today. High is -3F on Monday. And this nice layer of thick skin I got from two years of adding lots of dairy and sugary fruit are keeping me nice and warm while I shovel snow!
Love your fat! Don’t be obese.

I have a high tolerance to cold from the better fat I am storing now too. People say to me all the time, while I am wearing my tank tops and no jacket, “Aren’t you cold?”, and I tell them yes, but I am cold in an invigorating way. My skin will be cold to the touch, but it doesn’t get to me on the inside. I do love my new and improved fat!

 

[Rinse & rePeat]

I’ve seen your pictures and they perfectly illustrate that there’s more to the story than simple BMI. BMI is a rough measure for categorizing people but when it comes to individual health it basically fails.

These photos say it all.