Dietary (organic) Iron Does Not Increase Tissue Iron

[Ihor]

@milkbasedvegan copper, ceruloplasmin, thyroid, estrogen, liver enzymes, cortisol and adrenal status, a sufficient amount of stomach acid, do you have any status of these things?
I already wrote this here that in a year of diagnosted low ceruloplasmin and copper, my ferritin fell from 145 to 45 when i was eating beef almost every day while the year during this time.

 

[TheSir]

Is it actually even possible to overdose with any naturally occurring mineral without being deficient in some other mineral? The body seems to have some kind matrix of inter-dependent safe valves for regulation of mineral balance. Has anyone ever heard of someone who acquired copper, iron, phosphorus, calcium etc overload symptoms with diet alone?

 

[milkbasedvegan]

Is it actually even possible to overdose with any naturally occurring mineral without being deficient in some other mineral? The body seems to have some kind matrix of inter-dependent safe valves for regulation of mineral balance. Has anyone ever heard of someone who acquired copper, iron, phosphorus, calcium etc overload symptoms with diet alone?

I agree, I don’t see that happening ever. Supplementing minerals, however, tends to cause more trouble than anything else really.

@Ihor a ferritin of 45 doesn’t sound bad at all. What were transferrin and TIBC/UIBC like?

 

[Ihor]

I agree, I don’t see that happening ever. Supplementing minerals, however, tends to cause more trouble than anything else really.

@Ihor a ferritin of 45 doesn’t sound bad at all. What were transferrin and TIBC/UIBC like?

I agree that 45 is fine, but i was more intrested by what after the diet of meat my iron decreased and where it came from my body. There are many variables.
There is no TIBC/UIBC, only:
- Transferrin - 258,49
- Transferrin saturation - 18% (ref. 15-50)

 

[milkbasedvegan]

If anything, it should prove that eating beef reverses inflammation and tissue accumulation of iron

that said, transferrin saturation is a touch low. More beef?

 

[berk]

Ye iron regulation can be very tricky. I have lost iron between tests even though eating lots of liver, mussels, meat, orange juice etc. I’ve also gained iron. I’ve taken iron supplements and still lost iron. Ive taken iron supplements and become too high in iron aswell and within 3 months I lost half that iron according to blood tests. Regulation of iron and dysregulation is a mystery. So many variables affect your iron homeostasis. I’ve probably done 20 iron panels just the last 3 years.

do you have symptoms when your iron is to high?

 

[Kingpinguin]

do you have symptoms when your iron is to high?

Not really hard to tell any difference. My lowest ferritin was 50. Highest was 288. Now I’m at 98.

 

[berk]

Not really hard to tell any difference. My lowest ferritin was 50. Highest was 288. Now I’m at 98.

How do you know that your iron/ferritin fluctuate so much than?

 

[bennyha]

@milkbasedvegan copper, ceruloplasmin, thyroid, estrogen, liver enzymes, cortisol and adrenal status, a sufficient amount of stomach acid, do you have any status of these things?
I already wrote this here that in a year of diagnosted low ceruloplasmin and copper, my ferritin fell from 145 to 45 when i was eating beef almost every day while the year during this time.

Last I checked mine did the same thing. It’s been about 9 months since I checked and need to do a full iron panel again but I was eating two plus lbs of beef per day for over a year and my iron was dropping dangerously low

 

[Ihor]

Last I checked mine did the same thing. It’s been about 9 months since I checked and need to do a full iron panel again but I was eating two plus lbs of beef per day for over a year and my iron was dropping dangerously low

That’s why I’m even more worried than when ferritin would increase after all this meat diet, otherwise the main question is, where did this iron go? If the body excreted it, then why (possibly from excess) and why did it stay so low? If not, did it not remain unbound somewhere in the tissues? As I already said, perhaps the status of the combination of copper, ceruloplasmin, the thyroid gland, estrogen, liver enzymes, cortisol and adrenal gland, C-reactive protein, a sufficient amount of stomach acid with digestive enzymes would give suggestive answers to these questions. Maybe this is just a consequence of some kind of compensation.

 

[Kingpinguin]

How do you know that your iron/ferritin fluctuate so much than?

what do you mean? Bloodtesting?

 

[Kingpinguin]

That’s why I’m even more worried than when ferritin would increase after all this meat diet, otherwise the main question is, where did this iron go? If the body excreted it, then why (possibly from excess) and why did it stay so low? If not, did it not remain unbound somewhere in the tissues? As I already said, perhaps the status of the combination of copper, ceruloplasmin, the thyroid gland, estrogen, liver enzymes, cortisol and adrenal gland, C-reactive protein, a sufficient amount of stomach acid with digestive enzymes would give suggestive answers to these questions. Maybe this is just a consequence of some kind of compensation.

Its the spooky iron. Its there and then its not. Hahaha
You have to do full iron panels watch hemoglobin, serum-iron, ferritin and transferrin. If all combined indicate low iron then likely you dont have a lot of iron in the body. Combinations of markers mean different things. Imo optimal is lower ferritin, normal transferrin, higher serum iron and higher hemoglobin. It just means the iron is being utilized like it should. That depends on vitamin C, magnesium, retinol, copper and B vitamins. Probably manganese is included in that equation aswell. Many people oversee these vits and mins in the iron regulation.

 

[Ihor]

Its the spooky iron. Its there and then its not. Hahaha
You have to do full iron panels watch hemoglobin, serum-iron, ferritin and transferrin. If all combined indicate low iron then likely you dont have a lot of iron in the body. Combinations of markers mean different things. Imo optimal is lower ferritin, normal transferrin, higher serum iron and higher hemoglobin. It just means the iron is being utilized like it should. That depends on vitamin C, magnesium, retinol, copper and B vitamins. Probably manganese is included in that equation aswell. Many people oversee these vits and mins in the iron regulation.

Hemoglobin, transferrin, transferrin saturation, serum iron are all normal, i didn't have all iron markers. A few years ago, my hemoglobin was 190 with something, almost 200 and elevated ALT / AST, but apart from that then I had no tests with iron yet. Now I'm a little perplexed by this. I know that most of the iron in the body is bounded with hemoglobin if everything is fine. But the last test half a year ago, ceruloplasmin and copper were at a lower rate again, and this is after the liver and supplements. I have problems with stagnation and the release of bile from gallbladder, there are no stones, I think that it ruined my digestion of fat, protein, I found them undigested in my stool along of time, therefore it disrupted the liver, kidneys, hormones, T3 covert, for a long time, including synthesis of ceruloplasmin because it is a large complex protein and the ability to bind copper, therefore, the regulation of iron is poor even without its excess. With low ceruloplasmin, hepsedin tends to increase, this combination suppresses feroportin, which removes iron from the cell, so iron is retained in the cell and overloads it. At many stages of metabolism, Fe(II) from different sources also becomes problematic when ceruloplasmin is low. I write this because all these iron tests are just numbers for me, even when they seem normal, I just try to understand the reason both at the level of metabolism and at the level of tissue structure and the compensation. Vitamin C, magnesium, retinol, copper, vitamins B, manganese in different dosages do not make me better, some worse, I tried them in isolation for a long time, rather the problem of assimilation and transportation. It's actually all spooky.

 

[Ihor]

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[milkbasedvegan]

Interesting discussion.
Do you guys eat a lot of carbohydrates? I’m suspecting high blood glucose inhibit iron uptake

 

[michael94]

I’m suspecting high blood glucose inhibit iron uptake

whys that

 

[milkbasedvegan]

Well diabetes, which is an extreme state I reckon, may induce anemia. So a state of transiently elevated blood sugar will lead to iron accumulation instead of proper metabolism and utilisation. It’s a lose lose situation.

Diabetes (and in my opinion “diabetes” is massively underdiagnosed since pre diabetes is considered as normal nowadays, as per the study below where “healthy” patients have an average A1c of up to 5.9%...even 5.0% is borderline high average blood glucose already), can...

contribute to anemia through reducing absorption of iron, gastrointestinal bleeding and through diabetic complications that cause anemia (1-3).

Iron deficiency anemia and glucose metabolism

I don’t think it’s iron fortification of cereals that induces disease. I think it’s the fact that those cereals have massive glycemic loads and insulin indexes that dramatically increase iron accumulation at the liver. As seen in this thread, eating beef doesn’t do that - at least for me in a low carb high fat context it doesn’t.

The only time my ferritin was high in the 300s, was on a very high carb, low meat diet. It’s as if, instead of being properly metabolized and used up for crucial functions such as oxygen transport, iron was stored up in the liver for better, non diabetic days.

 

[michael94]

Well diabetes, which is an extreme state I reckon, may induce anemia. So a state of transiently elevated blood sugar will lead to iron accumulation instead of proper metabolism and utilisation. It’s a lose lose situation.

Diabetes (and in my opinion “diabetes” is massively underdiagnosed since pre diabetes is considered as normal nowadays, as per the study below where “healthy” patients have an average A1c of up to 5.9%...even 5.0% is borderline high average blood glucose already), can...



Iron deficiency anemia and glucose metabolism

I don’t think it’s iron fortification of cereals that induces disease. I think it’s the fact that those cereals have massive glycemic loads and insulin indexes that dramatically increase iron accumulation at the liver. As seen in this thread, eating beef doesn’t do that - at least for me in a low carb high fat context it doesn’t.

The only time my ferritin was high in the 300s, was on a very high carb, low meat diet. It’s as if, instead of being properly metabolized and used up for crucial functions such as oxygen transport, iron was stored up in the liver for better, non diabetic days.

I was in the mood for rice krispies a week ago and was looking through various cereals. Holy sh** there is like 65% RDV of iron in 120 calories worth... Well it was a knockoff brand so I'm not sure what the name brand has.

That is an interesting theory about storing liver iron in accordance with glucose spike.

 

[milkbasedvegan]

Also: too much blood sugar can lead to kidney and nerve damage, both of which can contribute to anemia. In diabetic kidney disease, the filtration mechanism of kidneys becomes disordered. Normally functioning kidneys secrete erythropoietin, which stimulates your bone marrow to produce red blood cells. Excess glucose, such as in diabetes, reduces production of EPO, causing anemia. Too much glucose can also damage the nerves that signal the kidneys to produce this hormone.

 

[Lokzo]

Some awesome discussion in this thread, and I thought I might share my GHOST experiences with Iron haha.

So this was after supplementing with Iron (Maltofer).

I have LOW Ceruloplasmin levels too btw.

I am responding quite well to Cardiovascular Research Ferritin Capsules (Bovine ferritin).

But still think there's something playing up still, as my Blood pressure is still low, I get dizziness and muscle pumps are still average.